Discussion Winter Magic - The Snow Owl Express

[Lovec Krys]

Comparison between old and new Owl's stats:

@Earwen1 Problem with map fightings for long playing players is that 1 single scout takes simply too long (over 60hrs my beta city, almost 100hrs my main city). And it's getting only longer especialy since better scouts are no longer given every chapter.

 

[DeletedUser1953]

Arf, i thought bypass the event to win only some daily building ... the EVO building becomes god ! Is it christmas ?!

 

[Karvest]

first day owls got better mana production too

 

[Jackluyt]

Here is the full evolution after rebalancing for a player in Chapter XII

Graphic deleted.
The re-balancing apparently got glitched and the graphic I posted on November 16th was incorrect.
I have posted a revised graphic lower down the thread.




Here are the old values for comparison

 

[Karvest]

I guess they forgot to add per-stage supplies modifier.

 

[Lovec Krys]

@Karvest My first screen was from the first hour, after that I didn't checked it before today.

 

[Marindor]

Hi guys! We just found out that something in the calculation formula broke the intended values and some are a tad too high right now (goods and mana) and supplies are a bit too low. They will be adjusted later today or tomorrow. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Aria Greensleeves]

Nobody said that refusing to fight would not have any consequences.

So, what you’re saying is that this game, like all the others, is based on fighting and killing to succeed. And if I choose to play solely as a merchant then I have to pay the “consequences“ for that choice and that’s just tough luck for me. Gotcha

 

[DeletedUser1953]

Hi guys! We just found out that something in the calculation formula broke the intended values and some are a tad too high right now (goods and mana) and supplies are a bit too low. They will be adjusted later today or tomorrow. Sorry for the confusion.

Ok, finally, no christmas in elvenar 2020 ! To play or not to play, it is all the question.

 

[Karvest]

So, what you’re saying is that this game, like all the others, is based on fighting and killing to succeed.

Sad but true, balance is shifted to fighting for a long time here.

 

[galrond]

To be fair, if you are really that small that the above is no option for you, fighting a match should not be an issue.
Again you have the tools (and if you are small you unlock expansions at an alarming rate) so that as well should not be an issue.

Last but not least, the goal of an evolution event, is to evolve a building.
an evolution pet is provided for this quest.

You can argue against each and every quest, but unless it really created a impossible bottleneck (for example finish a reseach with no alternative) we should stop whining about every little thing.

Diverse quests are much more fun that the same ones over and over and over again.
I like diferent things to do I do not want to go back to an unlimited group of workshop and factory quests you could finish 120 quests in like 5 minutes after the event starts.
I like it that if you do not use the power of foresight you are actually entertained the whoile event without to much pressure.
I like these new events for that reason.

I still don´t think ppl should be forced to place a building, that they don´t want. But you´re right. It´s not impossible.
I also agree diverse quests are more fun, than the same ones over and over again.
But I do not think, that has changed much.
As far goes "finish XXX quests in like 5 min after the event starts", well the only bottleneck is, that the last ones are "daily" quests. I applaud that bottleneck.

 

[Earwen1]

(...)
@Earwen1 Problem with map fightings for long playing players is that 1 single scout takes simply too long (over 60hrs my beta city, almost 100hrs my main city). And it's getting only longer especialy since better scouts are no longer given every chapter.

Yes, exactly! (On the live server I am playing at the end of Chapter XI where scouting takes 42 hours, so I do agree!)

That is why I propose that a quest could be like (for example):
"Scout a province OR create a CC in the MA."

The beginner will choose to scout, as for him to create a CC takes about 16 hours, while you - as a long time and advanced player - would choose to create that CC as this is much faster to accomplice to you.

Tasks and quest that are easy for beginners may be difficult to advanced players, and vice verse. Point is to find the balance, so that quests are about equal on the scale of difficulty for all players. That is the challenge I would slide forward to @InnoGames .

 

[SoggyShorts]

It still gives players who are set up to fight encounters two choices to complete a quest, i.e., fight and win encounters or collect two CC spells. A player who is not set up to fight and win encounters only gets one choice. Having the choice to fight encounters gives you the advantage of completing the quest sooner rather than having to wait two days to produce CCs in the MA. I don’t see how that is fair.

So, what you’re saying is that this game, like all the others, is based on fighting and killing to succeed. And if I choose to play solely as a merchant then I have to pay the “consequences“ for that choice and that’s just tough luck for me. Gotcha

But if you're not a fighter, you probably don't have 15 Vallorian Vallors in your city like me, right? 20 orc strategists? 6 armories, max level training grounds, merc camp and barracks? So with all of that space you probably have more than 1 of each factory, right?
So quests that ask you to produce XXXXX goods which takes me 30+ hours are way easier for you, right?

 

[SoggyShorts]

My point is, that if the difficulty rate of quests, compared to players level would be taken into account in events, quests in events could be more balanced for both beginners, middle and end gamers.

You are working under the assumption that inno wants to make things balanced in an easy way. It's entirely possible that they want some quests to be hard for each player.
For me, as a military player, all of those "produce goods quests" are a struggle, but if they changed them to produce goods OR fight, it'd be (too?) easy.

I'm sure we could come up with a list of "complete x or y quests" where every player could do them easily, but that may not be the intent.

 

[Earwen1]

You are working under the assumption that inno wants to make things balanced in an easy way. It's entirely possible that they want some quests to be hard for each player.

Nope.

My idea is that quests should be more equally difficult, or equally easy for all players. That's what I meant with balanced.

For me, as a military player, all of those "produce goods quests" are a struggle, but if they changed them to produce goods OR fight, it'd be (too?) easy.

It is your choice to have a lot of military and only a little production. That's fine. If you prefer it that way and have a game in disbalance. No problem, but has nothing to do with my proposal earlier.

I'm sure we could come up with a list of "complete x or y quests" where every player could do them easily, but that may not be the intent.

It is not my intention to make all quest easy for everybody. My intention is (1) to filter the impossible ones and (2) to have quests that are challenging and still achievable for all players, within the modus that @InnoGames already has implmented. They do have a lot of quests already that let us choose to do THIS or to do THAT. - My intention is that the one choice (THIS) is as difficult for starting players as the other (THAT) is for advanced players.

 

[SoggyShorts]

My idea is that quests should be more equally difficult, or equally easy for all players. That's what I meant with balanced.

Ah I did not see anything in your post that looked like encouraging difficult quests, my mistake.

Perhaps it's easier to balance across 95 quests though rather than to make sure that each individual quest is balanced across all chapters though...

 

[SoggyShorts]

It is your choice to have a lot of military and only a little production. That's fine. If you prefer it that way and have a game in disbalance. No problem, but has nothing to do with my proposal earlier.

It's not necessarily out of balance for events though.
As long as the entire event has a reasonable number of each type it doesn't really matter if I sail through 70% and struggle with 30% of individual quests or if a different strategy does all quests moderately well. If the total effort (measured by time perhaps?) is equal then all is good.

I like your goal of making all quests balanced, but I think it will be very difficult to please equally challenge all chapters, and impossible to please all players.
If you take the entire list of ~150 tasks as one big quest I think a balance may be more easily achieved.*

*note:I'm not saying that inno has achieved this.

 

[Earwen1]

@SoggyShorts I think we agree, after all! ;-)

To please everybody is impossible.
To get rid of impossible quests would be a first step and the challenge I would rather slide forward to @InnoGames .

 

[Velours]

Just for saying that, even if the quests are somehow unbalanced, I nevertheless enjoy this event. And to mention the excellence of the graphics here.

 

[Lovec Krys]

Final Owl:

Seems that it has slightly better mana prod. than my 2 chapters old Burning Pool, so it might replace one for a few months (until replaced with something better).