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[Tournaments] Reduce Tournament encounters

Are you in favor of this idea?


  • Total voters
    76
  • Poll closed .

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Which is precisely why I don't rely on just my experience and get feedback from dozens of FS members as well.

Disagree strongly. If as you say the current choice is between 30 minutes per day on one task and 2.5 hours per day I say that the choice has already been taken away because 2.5h per day is insane.

Perhaps you aren't familiar with the term? Quality Of Life is a gaming term. QoL
  • "Quality of Life" in the context of video games refers to features or aspects of gamedesign that ensure that players have a smooth gameplay experience
With QoL changes, it's not about making the game easier, it's more just the user interface. Things like removing unnecessary clicks for declining.
It's insane in YOUR style of play.
There are plenty of players willing to spend the time and are rewarded for it, I myself am able to do this for about once every 9 weeks.

Just because something doesn't fit your style of play doesn't mean it's no ones style, I know many many players from different guilds who play manualy especially in the last rounds to save troops, I myself usually can't be bothered.

I am a competing player weekly for the top spots and I can guarantee you that with this change you'll force me to play everything manually to keep competing for the top spots.
Since you can save so many troops manually and since it will take only an hour maybe 2 for each round to complete all possible scouted provincies. it will become an absolute must. as enough players will be willing to take that much time, in the easier provinces or if the game becomes easier over time it will become a game of who scouted the most provinces.

Steel tournament has already became that way on some servers, on the slovakian(dony) server for example, you see people hitting there province caps with insane scores. and it ain't unlikely a similar thing will happen in 9-18 weeks on my live server.
upload_2019-6-1_21-18-23.png

Guess who scouted the most? This wasn't a game of skill but a whole different game.

In your idea this is 73 fights per round, thats the same amount as now 18.25 provinces.
which is more than low enough for plenty of people to consider to go manual on all battles. from starting players who do 15 provinces to die harders who will do 73.
 
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CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Oh and btw. you yourself and everyone else also will be forced to play the tournaments manually as autofights will become dreadfull pitfalls.

A random loss could result in a day or maybe 2 days worth of recruitment forcing any player to go manually since the AI can't be trusted with a good outcome.
Because if the troops your are using are 4x as large to compensate. a loss is also 4x as large.
Imagine loosing a battle as province 20 (100% troop size) then you would loose 20! troops on a single battle because of either the AI or a random map that doesnt work well.

Because you just eliminated the use of autofight in this sceme of battles all time won because you went from 4 to 1 battle resulted in lost time because instead of hitting the fight button 4 times en 4 selects you now have to load the battle, give commands to your pawns en then wait for the world map to load again. there goes 3-5 minutes for a veteran manual player and more time for a newbie

similar with making a small error on the manual batlle will now result in a small loss but with much larger troop sizes these losses are also much larger, large enough to decide to go manual instread
 
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SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
Except that very new players don't HAVE 4 provinces.
For a few weeks, sure. Are there really so many players that are both super slow to progress and care about doing a lot in the tournament? Seems counterproductive..
I mean you're talking about something a player would experience 3 maybe 4 times.
I looked you up on Elvenstats.
I guarantee you didn't see all of my accounts. I can't exactly name them soggyshorts without encountering some bias, can I?
E.G. when seeing how hard it is to join a 10 chest FS my name would skew things. 23 accounts at various levels of play across various servers.
So are you asking for tournaments to be harder?
Nope, not what I said. You are either terrible at reading comprehension or trolling again. Either way back on the ignore list you go.
Oh and btw. you yourself and everyone else also will be forced to play the tournaments manually as autofights will become dreadfull pitfalls.
Nonsense. Having 4x the losses for 4x the progress is a wash.
The only players affected in the way you fear are 2-3 per world. Pretty specific situation and for that you want to screw over tens of thousands of players. So much for the greater good.

It's like arguing for the developers to never fix the FA quest cycling because you are in a FS that doesn't mind clicking 1,000s of times and that gives you an advantage.
 
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soleil

Guest
I guarantee you didn't see all of my accounts.
and how many of those accounts do you play differently? Or all they all like tradescandia which is probably your alt. lol plays just like you. Do you have any cities like mine?

I showed a scenario of a quality of life change in a game running one dungeon 100 times and then complaining it's taking too long and you said you would ask for it to be harder or longer, so you could run it 4 times versus 100. Sounds like the same scenario to me with tournaments. Did anyone take snapshots of their encounters prior to tournaments going to 4 encounters to know which encounters you're getting now? or is it 4 random ones? They certainly seemed harder to me after the switch.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
nonsense,

The main complaint people have about tournaments ain't the time it takes them to do it, it's always about the recources.
"I dont have any units left", "all my goods are gone2, "I need to recuperate" I have never heared anyone complain about It takes to much time.

less fights with bigger losses creates a mindset thats even worse. not only do the have less fights to practice on and learn,
It's also a mindfuck, even if you loose the same amount of troops (difficult to accief that balance) the bigger losses wordt as a red cloth on a bull.

Think about it this way.
You have a crappy wallet and each week you lose approximatly 1 euro/dollar. this is hardly felt.
Now make the number bigger. lets day instead of once a week you lost 100 euro/dollar at once.
Now how do you feel now you lost 100 dollar?

Bigger numbers have a bigger effect on how you precieve them, especially when we talk about losses.
Heel this is how Freemium games work, instread of asking you for 60 euro//dollar upfront they ask for small prices.
In the end you pay a lot more than 60 euro/dollar but you are much happier than if you spend it all at once.

Tournament is the same, if the losses are felt as "to big" people either ignore it, or they will switch to manual fighting depending on who they are as players.
How losses are percieved is more important that the actual losses, this is also why you have this slow increment in difficulty in each province and round.
To make you feel comfortable with the losses.

putting 4x the loss in 1 encounter to combat the reduction in encounters as a result will result in a different perception of losses. even if it's the same.

And what are you talking about 1-2 players a server are affected?, by far the mayority of the players do not more than 5-10 provincies a round.
Assuming thats on auto mode (I expect most not to play manual)Thats like under 3 minutes of time which you want to change in under 1 minute?

Seriously whats the time saving for 99% of the players if they continue doing the same?
Unless you switch to manual mode.. that is. and then were back to square one.
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
I have never heared anyone complain about It takes to much time.
I hear it every time I'm talking to my wife about where to spend her increasing surplus of goods and units. She stick around 4-4.5k points in tourney (full autofight/negotiation) just because she don't want to waste more time on it.
 

Crowella

Well-Known Member
23 accounts? No wonder you want fewer encounters.

I am a relatively new player who is choosing to progress fairly slowly AND really striving hard in tournaments. In the just finished tournament, my tournament score was 1350, while my player score is 3129 after about 6 weeks of play. (My tournament score has been increasing week to week; last week it was around 1000.)

I will be opening up some new provinces with the upcoming event, but I don't expect to have more than 5 provinces of any given type for another several weeks. Maybe some I'll have 6. Many I'll still have 4.

I am probably a bit of an outlier in my playstyle. With 23 accounts, so are you.
 

Aramina

Well-Known Member
I have never heared anyone complain about It takes to much time.
I love the tourneys ... really, they are my favorite art of the game. The only thing I don't like about them is they take too much time. I do have 4 cities and average around 3K weekly in all 4, and that probably wouldn't change much if this system was implemented, because, well, I would love the decrease in time to do the other things in my life that need to be done. Which sometimes I put off, because, you know: the game! :rolleyes:

I think what gets overlooked sometimes in all this though is whether a change would be better or worse for the majority and not just ME and my situation. CrazyWizard, from the tourney scores I see in all my worlds, I think this change would affect a LOT of people in a positive way (I'm not privvy to the percent of who's and what's, as so many others seem to be, so I'll just say a LOT). Would those on the first page achieve ridiculous scores unreachable by the rest of us if it was implemented? More than likely, yes, because they seem to do that already. Would that affect what the rest of us do? Definitely not for me, I most often forget to even look at scores other than those of my FSs, but let's leave me out of it. If one has a competitive spirit that just won't be quiet, I would imagine that would affect what they do, quite a bit. Are they the majority? I don't know. I don't think so, but I really have no way of knowing. That's why the feedback helps, to see what people think. But no one really knows what would happen, do they? It's all just guesses and speculation, unless of course they have a crystal ball and can see.. :cool:

Personally, I would simply like to shave some time off the 1-1.5 hours I spend on tourneys 5 days a week, because I do feel it's too much time, but I am weak and can't resist :eek: And this is probably the best solution for that, that I have seen, without cutting back and, in effect, sacrificing my contribution to my Teams :oops:
 
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Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
nonsense,
The main complaint people have about tournaments ain't the time it takes them to do it, it's always about the recources.
"I dont have any units left", "all my goods are gone2, "I need to recuperate" I have never heared anyone complain about It takes to much time.
I'm also one of those who have issues with tournament's time consuming instead of what you wrote.
Those things are usualy said by people who have small cities or/and have inefficient cities or/and plays less active and doesn't train units 24/7 and/or doesn't have enough manufacturies to supply tournament or/and doesn't know which unit to use in each tournament. In other words those players who usualy score few hundreds.

And even if I would start doing manual fights, it would still save me time, since I would start fighting manualy with only one of my cities (others would stay on their 5x8 provinces standard for 1680 points needed for 25 players to do 10h chest).
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
I have never heared anyone complain about It takes to much time.
Yeah, you live in a different world than us then. I just had one of US servers biggest spenders quit her second city because the tournament takes too much time. When players leave my 10 chest fellowships 95% of the time it's due to the tournament taking too much time. I just did under 1k points because I'm just tired of it. At least 3 days a week my wife or I say "Ugh, I have to do my tournament." Thankfully I've now filled all of my FS with competent players so I can float by on 1600 points from now on, but I don't think I'll enjoy it anymore- still burnt out.
And what are you talking about 1-2 players a server are affected?
I said only a couple could be affected in the way you fear which is losing your advantage. Manual fighting is not a viable option for the vast majority of players simply because it takes way too long. You don't care about the time, so you have an advantage. This idea threatens your ranking points so you are against it even though it will be a great boon to almost every other player. Manual fighting is actually a fairly fun part of the game which is totally wasted because the reward:time ratio is not good enough. Giving players a realistic possibility of doing more manual encounters or doing more in less time would be a nice change for many players.
I am probably a bit of an outlier in my playstyle.
Yeah, I really believe you are. So much tournament means loads of KP which should mean progress at your level. You don't need guest race goods yet, so you must be actively choosing to stagnate if you are not completing chapters.
With 23 accounts, so are you.
Not so much because I don't actively play all 23 and I'm counting all of my wife's accounts. I need to keep most of them from progressing too much otherwise I can't give feedback on how hard an event is for a chapter ___ player and such.
I did check the tournament on most of them several times over the past few months before making this suggestion though so I could confirm that it wouldn't hurt any of them.

I will grant that I play 3 accounts actively which is probably above average, but I'm also invested a little more in the game than average.
**********************************************************************
Sometimes I feel like there are hardly any other Beta testers on the Beta server, just a strange combination of players attempting unique playstyles, and/or pushing selfish agendas. We are almost certainly failing to represent the actual playerbase.
 
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Crowella

Well-Known Member
@SoggyShorts: I am choosing a deliberate pace through the game. I am focusing on building a solid foundation: goods production, troop production and game knowledge. This is not stagnation. It's a choice to enjoy the journey as well as to focus on things like events and tournaments rather than rushing through the chapters. I joined shortly after the beginning of the previous event and evolved my fire phoenix to level 9 in the event, picking up another artifact in the manufactoring challenge. As for where the KP goes, I recently completed my first level of the Golden Abyss and am beginning on my second.

I don't think either of us are "typical" players, but that in itself illustrates the diversity of approaches to Elvenar. I think that game changes should accommodate this diversity, which is why I'm advocating for a hybrid approach that would reduce encounters only in later rounds or higher provinces.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
I don't think either of us are "typical" players, but that in itself illustrates the diversity of approaches to Elvenar. I think that game changes should accommodate this diversity
Perhaps. Or perhaps a change that benefits 95% of the population and has a marginal downside for 5% is a good change.* Realistically attempting a change that will be good for 100% of players will fail or have to be such a minor change that any gains will also be minor.

*Obviously I don't know the exact figures for who would be affected and how, but I'm pretty confident that the two extremes of the 2.5h per day manual fighters and the very early chapter yet hardcore tournament players comprise far fewer than 1 in 20.
I'm advocating for a hybrid approach that would reduce encounters only in later rounds or higher provinces
If it was watered down to something like "5&5" I could still get behind this.
E.G.
  • provinces 1-4 in rounds 1,2,3&4 stay the same
  • provinces 1-4 in rounds 5&6 reduced to 1 encounter
  • provinces 5+ in all rounds are reduced to 1
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
I disagree, it is because the time required has dramatically increased as the number of provinces possible has dramatically increased. I was completely able to do the tournament and have lunch on my lunch break, but that isn't possible any more.

I've seen a number of players switch to just cater because the time required has dramatically increased. I mostly catered the last one on beta.

I feel this change will become a manual fighting game this way.
I don't like it.

The change from 8 to 4 was welcome, but from 4 to 1 sounds like I wanna do tournaments but I dont wanna do any effort type of change.

Now you need to make choices between manual and automatic battling for the sake of convinience/sanity or manual to reduces losses.
40-50 provinces take 20-30 minutes (especially since they removed the aditional click on auto mode)
(semi)Manual it takes 2-2,5 hours to do 20-30 provincies.

When you change it to 1 encounter the time it takes to do manual becomes so low that it almost becomes required and you eliminate the entire choice.
If you wanna perform in the tournaments manual becomes mandatory and too easy. and for some tournaments it will truly become a game about who has scouted the most provincies (a game I would easily win) but still I am not in favour of this change.

This change feelst to me like a I want to do tournaments but dont spend time on it, just like some cries from other players that they want the grand price in a event without doing al those tedious assignments. or I want to complete a challenge with my 5 workshops and dont build any extra.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
I think my hybrid idea is the best, leave the first page, and then reduce the number of encounters from the second page on. It could go by pages or by multiples of 9 because there is 9 provinces that have rotating prizes before what you get per level becoming the same for the rest of the tournament.

I just know I've always loved the tournament and I feel like I've hit a wall in that it has become too repetitive because of how much more you can do now, and how much more required to compete.

Except that very new players don't HAVE 4 provinces. They have one. Or two. I'm a chapter 3 player and have 3-5 provinces of any given type open. I'm sorry, but any way you cut it, your logic doesn't work.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
leave the first page
Still way too much IMO. That's almost 200 encounters instead of 50 for just page 1
At most leave HALF a page for HALF of the rounds. That drops it from 192 to 84 encounters.(I'd prefer 48, but I can't seem to convince @Crowella that after a few months she'll find 4 encounters tedious AF ;))

Remember, this idea isn't just to improve the experience for top-end players. Many of my Fellows who have abandoned cities or dropped out of the FS because of the tournament were doing 1-8 for 5 stars and 10-15 for 2 stars. Leaving the 1st page the same would only reduce the number of encounters by 20% for them and I'm sure they would still have quit.
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
Soggy's compromise is better.
Whole page 1 left unchanged solves nothing for most players. There are many players/cities doing only the first page (5x8=1680 = enough for 10th chest).
 

soleil

Guest
Okay here's a suggestion: every odd numbered encounter is combined to 1 and every even one is left at 4.
 

Buttrflwr

Well-Known Member
UGH! I love this idea, because Tourney's TAKE TOO MUCH TIME! Not resources, not troops...TIME!! As AM of an FS who IS tourney driven AND a requirement (on live) I have to do them, and I USED to like them, now I hate them. :D SO.MUCH.TIME!!!!!!! I am 100% for something that reduces the drudgery of click, click, click. I almost solely auto-fight, only catering the near impossible terrain driven ones, but even that is TEDIOUS!

So maybe not just one encounter, but at least cut in half and make it two encounters per province. Anything at this point would help.

+1 ! :D
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
For my likes, less encounters is better, but I am not so sure these players represent the masses. I really believe leaving the first page would best should there be a reduction, which I think there should.

Still way too much IMO. That's almost 200 encounters instead of 50 for just page 1
At most leave HALF a page for HALF of the rounds. That drops it from 192 to 84 encounters.(I'd prefer 48, but I can't seem to convince @Crowella that after a few months she'll find 4 encounters tedious AF ;))

Remember, this idea isn't just to improve the experience for top-end players. Many of my Fellows who have abandoned cities or dropped out of the FS because of the tournament were doing 1-8 for 5 stars and 10-15 for 2 stars. Leaving the 1st page the same would only reduce the number of encounters by 20% for them and I'm sure they would still have quit.