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[Tournaments] Reduce Tournament encounters

Are you in favor of this idea?


  • Total voters
    76
  • Poll closed .

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
Having fewer encounters but larger troops sizes would benefit those who manually fight but not be good for those who Auto Fight.
This is incorrect. I'm a 100% auto-fighter and would massively benefit from this change. Instead of losing 100+200+100+200 you'd just lose 600. Exactly the same outcome, just fewer clicks.
If you have 4 encounters and lose 100 units in the first, 200 in the second 100 in the 3rd and 400 in the 4th, which encounter do you think inno will choose to make it less tedious? The easier ones? Highly doubtful. Most likely the 4th one, now quadruple your losses.
Please stop spreading baseless fear. It would most likely be random(like it already is) and therefore the same losses on average as it is now.

I'll even add that as part of the suggestion so you can stop bringing it up.
 
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Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
@Crowella When your squad size is in thousands, rounding doesn't realy matter. And later rounds are not 4+, but 20+ (some might argue that they start on the second page 9+, but deffinately not 4+). And when you fight in 20+ even 100% of losses in the first 4 rounds are nothing.
And you can easily fight/cater the first page for 5 rounds (even without military wonders support), like I do on beta (just Martial monastery due to culture it provides, no other military wonder needed, depending on tourney I have to start catter between provinces 5-8, still my 4-3-2 manufactories provides more than enough goods for this and everything else, and I have underleveled barracks with 2 armories, so I don't even produce units 24/7).
In short, this change doesn't influence your score, just reduces time which you spend.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
I think reducing the number of encounters for the tournament is potentially one of the biggest improvements that could come along at this point...

8 to 4 was a great improvement, but on live when that happened you could win with a score in the 3000 range. Depending on the world people play in, I don't think you make the top 100 with that score now. You might make it into the top 10 with double that...

8 encounters was recognized as to many for where the game was and what was required. Well, today, at 4 encounters per province where the tournament is today, it is way more than it was.

I know people that were doing auto battle have switched to negotiating because of auto-battle taking too long. I was looking at that route, but the massive increase in orc requirements for negotiating kind of killed that idea.

I hope this idea gets strong consideration, and fast implementation.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
Hah, we've just lost another in my live forum. This player spent money to ensure the fire was at level 10 and communicated intention to be in the top 10. Did what was necessary for that for 2 tournaments and has decided it is too boring, and is quitting for lack of anything holding interest. But this player also made noises about way too many encounters and feeling it was very boring through the effort to place in the top 10.

I think with the level that players can get to with the tournament now it needs to have a reduction in encounters per province.

there goes another diamond customer...
upload_2019-5-22_8-20-46.png
 

Crowella

Well-Known Member
@Crowella When your squad size is in thousands, rounding doesn't realy matter.
Mine isn't. And neither are squad sizes for a lot of new players. And the game needs new players to stay engaged. That's why I'm suggesting a hybrid solution, one that keeps the fights small for new players and that would potentially reduce the number of encounters for larger players. I think you are advocating for a solution that is only great for you and the level/manner in which you play.
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
for low squad sizes loses are usually bigger due to rounding (see @soleil 's cries about tourneys costs are too high comparing to openworld), so that change would actually improve tourneys for low levels too.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
Keeping the first page as is and reducing the rest to 1 encounter per province would be a good hybrid solution.

A quick count of how many encounters if you go out say 56 to level 2, 32 to level 5 and 16 to level 6... 384+320+192 = 896 encounters...

With the first page staying the same and the rest being one encounter it would be
192 for the first page, +48 +80 + 48 = 368 encounters.

I remember the very first new tournament I went out 27 provinces to level 2, and something like 12 to level 5 and 9 to level 6. So 192 + 72 + 120 = 384 encounters.

Mine isn't. And neither are squad sizes for a lot of new players. And the game needs new players to stay engaged. That's why I'm suggesting a hybrid solution, one that keeps the fights small for new players and that would potentially reduce the number of encounters for larger players. I think you are advocating for a solution that is only great for you and the level/manner in which you play.
 

soleil

Guest
I'm not spreading fear, but you can't ask for making things less tedious and easier, where is the balance? I was actually trying to help you guys see the potential of going to one. Keep building your gray military buildings because that's where you're heading. @Crowella has the best solution for this.
 

Aramina

Well-Known Member
As a player who finds Tourneys to be the most worthwhile part of this game, and the best use of my time and resources, I think this idea is a great one. I play in 4 worlds, and average about 3K tourney points per week (3K+ in 2, 2,800 and 2,900 in the other 2) so I admit, this reduction in encounters would benefit me greatly. I used to love to manually fight, but now I only have the time to manually fight the handful of encounters that I lose on auto-fight, and really, there's not much fun in auto-fighting. :(
If you have 4 encounters and lose 100 units in the first, 200 in the second 100 in the 3rd and 400 in the 4th, which encounter do you think inno will choose to make it less tedious? The easier ones? Highly doubtful. Most likely the 4th one, now quadruple your losses.
I'm not sure what level you are at in the game Soliel? I don't really find that I have 1 difficult encounter in each province, they seem pretty much the same, getting progressively harder as the provinces get higher. Perhaps I don't pay enough attention, but I'll look at that more closely this week and see if 1 encounter seems to stand out as the "difficult one" in each prov.. :oops:
later rounds are not 4+, but 20+ (some might argue that they start on the second page 9+, but deffinately not 4+).
I think you're just misunderstanding provinces and rounds. The first round is played day one of the tourney, the second round, day 2 etc. So when Crowella suggested implementing this idea "in higher rounds, like 4+", I believe what was meant was for rounds 4, 5, and for those who time it right, the last round, round 6 :rolleyes:
 

soleil

Guest
@Aramina like @Mykan I value your input. I used to be an avid tournament player, but took a break and when I got back things were most definitely different. Tournaments became costly. (or at least I finally saw how costly they were) People went from building a lot of factories to now having a lot of gray military buildings. It's completely flipped.

I don't like losing full squads, if I lose one full squad it usually means I did something wrong. Currently, I have about the easiest provinces one can have. In one encounter (in the same province) I had almost triple the unit losses compared to the easiest of the encounters. I think it's a terrific idea that people test this and see just how many units they are actually losing in each province, because it seems no one cares as long as they are not getting defeats. I'd hate to see this get implemented and now people have to keep building and acquiring more and more military buildings to try and keep up with their losses.
 

Grace

Well-Known Member
Yes please reduce the number of tourney events in each province. I'm fine with starting with 4 (as it is today) and having it reduced over # of tourneys or pages - that helps us learn which troops are best, so that could work.

4 is tiring, and the tourney has become a real drag instead of a fun part of the game. I appreciate the rewards (they're great), but I'd like to reduce some of the repetitive clicking effort required. Time to switch up the tourneys a bit.
 

Crowella

Well-Known Member
There is a definite difference in difficulty of encounters within each province, at least in the early provinces and early rounds, which is what I can best speak to.

Digression: This is perhaps less noticeable to people who manually fight and more noticeable to people who auto fight. I auto fight everything. If I wanted to control lots of units going after each other, I'd be playing an FPS. (Nothing against people who manually fight. I'm glad that's an option for them, but I personally am not interested, and hope the game continues to accommodate people like me, such as by offering the option to cater these difficult fights.)

Back to my main point: In each province there is usually one encounter at least (sometimes two) that feature an "impossible" combination of shady characters. That is, it's impossible to select one opposing troop type that is reasonably effective (at least even) against all of them. From my observation of the way Auto Fight works, it is most effective in terms of limiting losses when all of your deployed troops are of the same type. Sure you can TRY to throw some treants in front of your archers in order for them to take the hits, but the Auto Fight is not as efficient as manual fight at employing relatively complex tactics. I don't know how the math is done, but in my observation in general losses are better when you Auto Fight with just all one troop type. The "difficult" provinces with mixes of troops make it difficult to do this, resulting in larger proportional losses.

I'm a new player and have only unlocked 4 hexes at most for each tournament, and I haven't fought them beyond the fourth round, so what I'm describing here may change as things progress. Perhaps in later provinces or rounds everything is equally hard. If that's the case, I think that supports my argument even more for not combining everything into one big fight in these earlier provinces and/or rounds.
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
if you now have 1/4 hard encounters then after this change you'll have 1/4 hard provinces (hopefully randomly distributed).
For a row of 10+ encounters (even with 4 open provinces you'll have more than 12 encounters after 3+ rounds) there would be no difference in general.
 

Crowella

Well-Known Member
That COULD be the way they design it. If they did, then people could pick and choose and only complete the "easy" provinces, hopscotching their way through the tournament. While that would be lovely from the standpoint of players who don't necessarily want to complete every province of every round, I'm not all that optimistic that it would be a win from the perspective of the game designers or even game balance.
 

Crowella

Well-Known Member
Assuming at least some players use the strategy of solving a diminishing number of provinces with each round, I'm not sure why you couldn't, unless you are suggesting that they will alternate hard and easy for each province between each round, but given a ratio of 3:1 say between easy and hard, there would still be an opportunity to cherry pick.
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
Well, looking at 20+ provinces there is very small amount of "easy" provinces (at least for me it's like 1/8), but same small amount of "hard" ones.
Solving a diminishing number of provinces each round make sense only based on rewards for that rounds, but not on "hardness" of some intermediate round. At the end you can always cater hard encounters, while continue fighting easy ones.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
I think you are advocating for a solution that is only great for you and the level/manner in which you play.
Like Karvest said, instead of having 4 encounters of varying difficulty in each province you'd just have different difficulties per province. This works for players of all stages in the game. Since provinces give the same rewards(on a rotation) players picking and choosing fights is really not an issue.
you can't ask for making things less tedious and easier, where is the balance?
The balance is that there is more to do in the game now than there was when tournaments were first introduced. This will be even more apparent when the weekly spire event is launched. Also, Quality Of Life improvements do not generally require balance in games. For example, the added "set all" on workshops feature does not mean that they must now increase event quests from "Make 50 beverages" to "Make 100 beverages"

You'll note that the 2 of you who are both new/small are the only 2 fighting this reduction in tedium. You can trust in the experience of other players a little: in a few weeks once you are able to do 5-10x as much in tournaments every week you'll beg for this change.
 

Crowella

Well-Known Member
It's good for the game when new and small players stick around. We may not know everything, but we can speak to an experience that you might have forgotten.

Because there is a blend of players, I think the hybrid solution I've advocated is a good one.