little bee
Well-Known Member
That is not what I meant. My first argument had nothing to do with how much fighting vs. catering you do. Let me try to do some calculations:I don´t disagree, that military wonders have greater impact on tournament.
When it comes to spire, then the non-military wonders has a great impact as well.
One of the best military wonders is the monastery / sanctuary. Even if you completly ignore the culture it gives, it still boosts all your troops health by 30% at lv. 30. This will not only help you loose 30% less troops, it also allows you to win fights you would otherwise loose. So if you fight at least a third of the tournament / spire then this wonder is easily worth its 9% penalty.
On the other hand lets assume a player caters 100% of tournament and / or spire. And we will also ignore the space that wonders take up. Then the best wonder to build would probably be the mountain hall. At lv 30 it gives you 15% of your working population which correspond to boosting the population you actually build by around 17% (or even 20% when combined with the abyss). However, a well balanced city should not be using more than 20%-25% of its space for population. So the population bonus only boosts your catering ability by around 4%. Now lets look at the second bonus. At lv. 30 the MH will boost your boosted goods by 20% (assuming you have the max. relict boost). However, normal goods are not your only catering goods. You also need gold, suplies, orcs, mana, seeds and sentients goods. Here it gets complicated, because how much of your catering goods are normal goods is determined by your chapter and by how much you play tournament vs. spire. If 50% of all goods needed for catering are normal goods then the total benefit of the mountain halls would be 10%+4%=14%; if only 30% of all catering goods were normal goods then the benefit of the mountain halls is only 10%.
So, the very best non-military wonder in the entire game would barely be worth its penalty even for a player who caters everything. The moment you try these calculations with a player who fights at least sometimes and / or with the golden abyss instead of the mountain halls, the penalty becomes to high. This does not, however, mean that these wonders need to be buffed. The MH and GA are already very good wonders that boost every aspect of the game. They just have a smaller influence on the tournament / spire because boosting your catering ability is fundamentally harder than boosting your fighting ability.
No one is suggesting calculating a different coefficient for every single wonder. That would indeed lead to endless discussions. But calculating just two coefficients, one for military and one for non-military wonders, should be doable. Calculating what these coefficients should sensibly be, would, in no way, be more difficult than trying to figure out how much each wonder needs to be buffed to become usefull. And of course figuring out how to count the mixed wonders (i.e. wonders with a military and a non-military benefit) is an important question. But there are plenty of possible solutions. You could count them as 50% military and 50% non-military, you could count them as 100% military and 100% non-military, you could roll a dice each time. It would still be better than the current system.So it´s a valid point, that they should weigh less.
My point is that it would be a logistic nightmare to determine how much less.
Needles has two military components (LR AP) and (barracks training speed).
No doubt military AW.
Martial Monestary has a military component (health), and a non-military component (culture).
I would count that as a military AW.
Pyramid has a military component (free HM barracks units), and a non-military component (free sentient goods).
Some say barracks units are useless. So is this a military AW? If so should it weight differently to a elf, than to a human?
What I´m trying to say is: it´s no easy task to determine the weight of each AW.
It´s by far easier to alter the benefits of AWs, then it is to determine the weight they should have.