Discussion Tournament Changes (post-release)

[galrond]

Are we reading the same feedback?

Well By a quick search I found #460 (page23), #502 and #506 (page 26) that I think support, that it´s easier for small players (and felowships) to get points needed. I know there´s more but couldnt find them in a hurry. I´m also aware, of some the comments against them.
I may have put too much weight on them, and/or misread them, but I don´t recall anyone saying, that it´s not become easier to get 1000+ points. Maybe I have misread that too?

In oppose to Jaxom (#587) I don´t think the top players should be bearing the load. It should be a team effort to get the chests. It´s always been in my live fellowships. Ofcourse some pull harder than others, but the 10 chests come home every week without anyone having to do 10k+

But if the idea of a fellowship is: 4-6 ppl earning the points, and the rest only do 5 points to get the loot. Well then it becomes harder

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

And new tournament and absolutely no changes. I have been taking notice and my SS increases 950 units per province. This is what I get by province 6, 7 and 8, first round.

So that should mean that your starting squad size in province 1, star 1 was 950? Because that is how the new system works. Your starting squad size is added to your current squad size for each new province. So province 10 should be about 10 times province 1, or for you, about 9500.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Well By a quick search I found #460 (page23), #502 and #506 (page 26) that I think support, that it´s easier for small players (and felowships) to get points needed. I know there´s more but couldnt find them in a hurry. I´m also aware, of some the comments against them.
I may have put too much weight on them, and/or misread them, but I don´t recall anyone saying, that it´s not become easier to get 1000+ points. Maybe I have misread that too?

In oppose to Jaxom (#587) I don´t think the top players should be bearing the load. It should be a team effort to get the chests. It´s always been in my live fellowships. Ofcourse some pull harder than others, but the 10 chests come home every week without anyone having to do 10k+

But if the idea of a fellowship is: 4-6 ppl earning the points, and the rest only do 5 points to get the loot. Well then it becomes harder

And a fellowship of just 10 players who can do all six stars in the first 15 provinces, for 4050 points each, can get 10 chests every week too. But I don't think we will see a sudden rush by the power players to form these smaller fellowships just for 10 chests.

 

[DeletedUser1953]

I do not any change in type of mob in encounters, it is always random (i see the 5 types of units).

 

[Deleted User - 81190]

I do not any change in type of mob in encounters, it is always random (i see the 5 types of units).

See this:

The second one is a bit more complex and although we're working on it, it probably won't be ready before the next tournament start yet. It is still being worked on, though. Just wanted to let you know.

So indeed, no changes there (yet).

 

[SoggyShorts]

Well By a quick search I found #460 (page23), #502 and #506 (page 26) that I think support, that it´s easier for small players (and felowships) to get points needed.

While those 3 posts don't consist of negative feedback, they also don't mention it being easier for fellowships to get 10 chests.

• The only thing that has gotten easier is the early & deep provinces (i.e. The first ~8 to 6 stars)
• The reason this doesn't help is that not everyone is willing or able to log in 6 times in 5 days at least 16h apart.
• The significantly increased difficulty of anything over province ~20 means that it is very hard for the top 5 in a fellowship to make up for the bottom 5 (or a sick/away member) to create an average of 1600+

 

[Dl. Goe]

Or count it slightly more realistically (like a lot of fellowships are on live worlds):

• You have 22-23 members, but only 20 attend a specific tournament
• The last 5 are weaker accounts and contribute with 1 k points; the next 5 accounts will make around 1.5-1.6 k each
• So, the top 10 players have to bring 27 k points; and that’s for 10 chests sharp, don’t even think about the extra 9

A such fellowship has a lower chance to achieve 10 chests and I don’t consider a weak one; and no chance for the extra 9 prices.

 

[Dl. Goe]

And now sum up: more difficult fights (at least for top 10), less rewards (for 10 chests, the rest is an illusion for them); who will be demoralised?…well, top 10. I suppose it either makes them ignore tournaments altogether, or change the fellowship structure, with only v good players in a fellowship.

 

[galrond]

While those 3 posts don't consist of negative feedback, they also don't mention it being easier for fellowships to get 10 chests.

• The only thing that has gotten easier is the early & deep provinces (i.e. The first ~8 to 6 stars)
• The reason this doesn't help is that not everyone is willing or able to log in 6 times in 5 days at least 16h apart.
• The significantly increased difficulty of anything over province ~20 means that it is very hard for the top 5 in a fellowship to make up for the bottom 5 (or a sick/away member) to create an average of 1600+

One of the posts mentioning going from 4-6 chests to 9. That sounds easier to me
As far goes the deep provinces I totally agree. Nothing has changed, that will get ppl to do 4, 5, 6 stars more often.
It is my hope, that it becomes easier for the mid- to bottom players to compensate in part for the loss in points from the top 5, by being able to go more 1, 2, 3 star provinces.
The motivation to do something as a small/medium player may also encrease, due to lowend being easier combined with the fellowship needing it. I know, that I will do more if the fellowship needs it, than if it´s only for myself. But maybe I´m too naive in this matter. Proberly is.

 

[galrond]

Or count it slightly more realistically (like a lot of fellowships are on live worlds):

• You have 22-23 members, but only 20 attend a specific tournament
• The last 5 are weaker accounts and contribute with 1 k points; the next 5 accounts will make around 1.5-1.6 k each
• So, the top 10 players have to bring 27 k points; and that’s for 10 chests sharp, don’t even think about the extra 9

A such fellowship has a lower chance to achieve 10 chests and I don’t consider a weak one; and no chance for the extra 9 prices.

Well that depends on how much harder it gets to swing 4-6k in tournnament. What I have heard complaints about is, that it becomes MUCH harder to swing 10k+
If we take your example: 20 active in a week.
- top 5 each bring 4k in average
- rest 15 each bring 1,4 in average
I don´t think thats far from how it works in many guilds, who get the 10 chests.

 

[maxiqbert]

Well that depends on how much harder it gets to swing 4-6k in tournnament. What I have heard complaints about is, that it becomes MUCH harder to swing 10k+
If we take your example: 20 active in a week.
- top 5 each bring 4k in average
- rest 15 each bring 1,4 in average
I don´t think thats far from how it works in many guilds, who get the 10 chests.

i's not harder on absolute terms to get 4k points, but you need to do 6 stars and thus gain lesser rewards. Meaning
a) why would I do it?
b) it's more demanding, real time wise

 

[DeletedUser3289]

A person mildly jealous person about a few getting 10k+ points, starts supporting the change, I guess

 

[DeletedUser2586]

One of the posts mentioning going from 4-6 chests to 9. That sounds easier to me
As far goes the deep provinces I totally agree. Nothing has changed, that will get ppl to do 4, 5, 6 stars more often.
It is my hope, that it becomes easier for the mid- to bottom players to compensate in part for the loss in points from the top 5, by being able to go more 1, 2, 3 star provinces.
The motivation to do something as a small/medium player may also encrease, due to lowend being easier combined with the fellowship needing it. I know, that I will do more if the fellowship needs it, than if it´s only for myself. But maybe I´m too naive in this matter. Proberly is.

Hello,

I don't find that coherent. How should a beginner or mid-level account do more than a high-level account?

What interest for a player in this case, to say, I will do my best to progress?

I agree with some here who think it is high levels to lead by example. That is to say, earn more points when you are a veteran player and thus set an example and at the same time give newer players a desire to progress. With this system, the valuation of small / medium accounts does not make sense ...

I also fully agree with the comments that say nothing has changed.
for example my prints screens. The demand for orcs is still high, to speak only of this resource.
Province 6, 0 * orcs requested 1300 !!

Province 9, 0 * orcs requested 1900 !!

I remind you that this is only the first round !!
Currently my 3 armories allow me to produce 1590 orcs in 12 hours. I play traders on the bta and I already find it abhorrent to have to advance armories when you are not fighting, but here it is totally against a city-building logic.
So you are going to tell me that the forge of heroes wonder allows to compensate "a little" for this production of orcs but the more I advance this AW the more I also increase the negotiation costs.

It's a disgust ...

 

[CrazyWizard]

One of the posts mentioning going from 4-6 chests to 9. That sounds easier to me
As far goes the deep provinces I totally agree. Nothing has changed, that will get ppl to do 4, 5, 6 stars more often.
It is my hope, that it becomes easier for the mid- to bottom players to compensate in part for the loss in points from the top 5, by being able to go more 1, 2, 3 star provinces.
The motivation to do something as a small/medium player may also encrease, due to lowend being easier combined with the fellowship needing it. I know, that I will do more if the fellowship needs it, than if it´s only for myself. But maybe I´m too naive in this matter. Proberly is.

Off course they did, past week more players were online and more players were willing to see what's all the fuzz was about.
This on itself increases participation beyond "normal"

In this regard some of the numbers do not say much, once it's gets to live and the new thing wears off and they are still making 9 chests, thats when a statement like that makes sense. It's like a new restaurant in town, it's all the buzz, every day it's booked full, but only 2 months later can you say if that new fancy restaurant will have a future. as by then the initiall boom has ran out and then you can finally see stable income numbers.

 

[Suzanik]

I know that this system favours auto-fighting less, but let's take people that do auto-fight for a moment - I find that the time/effort involved in analysing completely different sets of enemies in one encounter is greater than the time/effort/clicks of fighting four provinces in the old system. The new way could be less tedious, certainly, but more time-consuming I think.

I totally agree with that since I am only playing on mobile device and only do auto-fight, so this is very unfair for all of us who do fight auto. Not gonna buy a computer just so that I can fight manually... Please, keep things simple for those who auto-fight as well, as there are quite a few of us, I believe

 

[bart 2]

Totally in agreement with what some colleagues comment. Tournament and tower difficulty calculations allow mid-level players to score more points more easily than more advanced players. This makes the game frustrating and demotivating players who advance chapters in the tech tree and climb wonders such as the flourishing merchant guild or vortex to be able to advance more chapters, as these marvels increase the difficulty without giving you benefits for the players. tournaments / tower of eternity.

The message being sent to players is that it is best to stay somewhere in the middle of the tech tree and climb only the wonders that increase resource production and improve troops. This is not consistent, the logical thing is that the more a player advances in the technological tree, the farther he can go in tournaments / tower of eternity, but what sense does it make to advance?

Therefore, the difficulty of the tournaments should be based almost exclusively on the distance of each tournament province (just like the normal provinces on the map) and not on the chapter of the technology tree, the levels of wonders we have or the expansions. In this way a player in the first chapters can make a couple of provinces and the further he goes the further he can go in each tournament.

Another option may be that if the difficulty of each tournament province is going to be calculated based on the chapter, the levels of wonders and the expansions that we have, that the rewards are calculated with the same formula, so that if the difficulty increases by advance in the game, also increase the points and rewards we receive.

Of course, what is not logical is that the more advanced a player is, the more difficult it is for him to tournaments and the tower to receive the same rewards.

 

[Pauly7]

I totally agree with that since I am only playing on mobile device and only do auto-fight, so this is very unfair for all of us who do fight auto. Not gonna buy a computer just so that I can fight manually... Please, keep things simple for those who auto-fight as well, as there are quite a few of us, I believe

This is the problem. Whilst they are not adding the manual fighting functionality to the mobile app, it seems strange to me that they would further handicap the app only players, considering I thought they were trying to make it a level playing field between app and browser.

 

[DeepTerminal]

Two easy wins for Inno:

1. Remove Premium Expansions and AW levels from the spire/tourney squad size calculation;
2. Remove Orcs from tourney catering requirement or drastically reduce it.

Two things Inno must do to avoid alienating its long-term endgame players:

1. Adjust the tourney squad size formula so that it increases at a slower rate;
2. Adjust the tourney difficulty table so that the enemy squad size increases at a slower rate.

In principle, I agree with Inno's vision for the tourney changes, but they went overboard with the squad size and difficulty ramp up. Both aspects need to be scaled back.

 

[DeletedUser2586]

Hello again

I just compared the costs between my beta city and my live city on wyniandor. This is quite telling I think as an example to illustrate the increase in trading costs.

I posted just a little higher, a print screen of my province 9 to 0 *. Knowing that it is carried out with an amuni chapter city (13).

I post below, the costs requested for the same level of provinces 9, but this time on my city live wyniandor where I am chapter 15 (elvenar).

Beta : amuni chapter city (13).province 9 to 0 *

Live Wyniandor : elvenar chapter city (15). province 9 to 1* fight 1

Live Wyniandor : elvenar chapter city (15). province 9 to 1* fight 2

Live Wyniandor : elvenar chapter city (15). province 9 to 1* fight 3

Live Wyniandor : elvenar chapter city (15). province 9 to 1* fight 4

Beta : amuni chapter city (13).province 9 to 0 * = 1900 orcs
Live Wyniandor : elvenar chapter city (15). province 9 to 1* = 220+37+150+150 = 557 orcs

We can see here that despite the fact that I am 2 chapters more advanced on wyniandor, the demand for orcs on the beta with two chapters less, is clearly more important and problematic !

So yes there is the advantage of classic goods which is less in demand. But it is precisely this type of merchandise that normally allows a trader to make his tournaments.

The balancing of resources requested by inno does not seem good to me at all.

Shlaag

 

[Pauly7]

Just an observation (even leaving aside the ludicrous costs of catering with Orcs) - The cost of catering is supposedly halved, but, when you want to cater just occasionally I think that the total cost of catering is, if anything, higher now. Previously you may have picked a single difficult encounter to cater. When you do the same thing in the new version you are effectively catering 4 encounters at once. So you can end up spending twice the goods that you're used to.