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Discussion Tournament Changes (post-release)

PaNonymeB

Well-Known Member
If they however feel the bonus chests are just another spire and everyone must do everything type concept, then they iseriously need to increase the bonuses as you will never cnvince a person who does 2,000pts to do 6,000 + pts in a push and decimate their resources and army in the process for 10 kp and a restoration spell I mean restoration spells are nice but they are somewhat redundant with the frequency of events and sameness of benefits. Now if they through a second BP in at chest 9 or some other incentives in addition...
Yes... chest 10 should emain a milestone but I think bonus chests should be at least better than chest 9, with a final reward of e.g. 50 AWKP + 2 RR + 1 second BP in chest 19.
 

Deleted User - 81190

Guest
Skipping was not explained. My immediate thoughts were if a province blocks you for lack of resources you could mark it to skip it. That's what it sounded like to me. So, maybe you wanted to do another province and it takes a gazillion orcs, so you skip and do the one after...
I doubt that, you can do what you're describing today, past 1*. Given that nothing was mentioned before, I doubt it is anything very new or very meaningful. I'd think it is simply scrolling to the next available province, which was reported as an annoyance before. So if today I have 50 provinces open, that's 6 pages on desktop. If I finish province 35, then to get to province 36 I need to open the list, do a few page scrolls and then click on the province. This gets old very fast, as in vast majority of cases you always open the next one right away.

The thing is, if that's the case, it becomes a lot less relevant in the new setup as there will be a lot fewer unlocked provinces. But moving to a next one would still be equally annoying.
 

palmira

Well-Known Member
I have been trying to figure why Inno deliberately made the tourney very hard for the advanced/higher ranked players and very easy for the others. We must not forget Elvenar may be a game for us but is a business for Inno and advanced players are bad for business because they don't need to spend money anymore - they have more expansions, more magic buildings and a high rank difficult to surpass if they continue too accumulate tourney points every week. With no changes in the tournament, it would be very complicated for a newcomer willing to spend to climb the rank ladder. A way to close the gap could be these changes, I know for sure it will be difficult for me to maintain 5k weekly live in this insane setup but very easy for some newer players with less AW lvls and expansions.

Slowing high rank players and helping lower rank ones is the obvious result of these changes, as the 33 pages of this discussion is ample proof. We have to wait and see if the results are the expected raise in sales or exactly the opposite.
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
With no changes in the tournament, it would be very complicated for a newcomer willing to spend to climb the rank ladder.
Once newcomer will start to catch up the rank ladder he would find himself in the same situation as advanced players now. Or he need to be very patient and climb there for years without advancing to latest chapters and buying/placing expansions for buildings giving rank. And even then he would be still punished by useless AWs he need to level to climb there.
 

LOKINHO

Well-Known Member
Edit Marindor: Please remember English only on the Beta forums. Translation:


[QUOTE = "edeba, publication: 88250, member: 2204"]

Problems with the new tournament design:
1) The increasing difficulty rate should be less pronounced.
2) The level of orcs required should be reduced.
3) There is a big nerf in the ability to get spells.
4) The penalty for improving your game through in-game purchases and leveling AW exceeds the benefit and makes people less competitive for the tournament.
5) The level of coins and supplies required seems high.

So clearly the new design is to make it more difficult to pass province 20 than in the past and this is a great nerf for anyone who has mainly played the first two levels. He is a great nerf for PoP and KP. People who weren't playing level 5 can get a little kp back. I almost always play my level 5 at least until province 20, and generally more. So this is a massive EE spell nerf in addition to the kp. He's also a rune nerf, but I think for more aggressive players this doesn't make any difference.

There was an earlier suggestion to cut the difficulty increase in half so that we didn't reach the type of difficulty we faced up to province 40. With the increase in squad size, I thought province 50 would be more fair compared to what that we have managed to do in the tournament, but he is still a nerf because people have been able to do much more. However, I acknowledge that with the benefit of the reduced monotony of the tournament, flattening the difficulty curve in half and having the actual competition be in the more than 40 provinces will make me feel that the exchange is acceptable.

I wonder if the massive increase in orcs is related to the decrease in assets. I tracked assets and orcs and it turned out that each orc had around 1700 assets, so when the orcs were tall. I did the calculation quite a long time ago and probably had a multiplier to find out if the products were t1, t2, or t3. So if the products are assumed to be about half to start with, unless what is in the formula for the orcs is divided by the square of the reduction, the orcs will go up extremely. Orcs have increased dramatically and I don't want to spend the time I spend looking at this to find that relationship. But, it seems that this relationship has not been adjusted and is appearing with an extreme increase in the demand for orcs.

It would be nice to add a PoP and an EE to each of the 10 additional chests to help offset the massive nerf in the ability to get them. Make no mistake here, live last week I got 56 PoP and EE from provinces 10 to 65 live. With this new tournament, I would expect the number to drop to around 20. If you cut the difficulty in half, in total effort, you could get 40, but I think 30-35 is probably more realistic. People who don't use their spells probably don't mind, but if you do use them, this is a great nerf.

The difference in size of the selected team from in-game purchases is crazy and working on your game. One idea I have about the formula for expansion is to have one premium expansion per chapter excluded from the formula, and reduce that coefficient in the remainder from 0.75 to 0.5.

And then, with the AW in the formula, exclude the number of levels as your chapter. So a player in chapter 8 that has 15 levels in any AW has to count 15-8 = 7, and that same player in chapter 16 doesn't have that contact counted at all. The player in chapter 16 has had much more time to level AWs than the player in chapter 8. This is just an idea to fix the AW penalty.
[/ QUOTE]

Strongly agree ... I list the same:

1.- Making a change of this type and magintud, in which it is intended to "help" the little ones as it seems, and slow down the "big ones" or players of the last chapters, is a serious MISTAKE!
Plot: The little player, sooner or later, will be part of this new big change, which will affect sooner or later.
The great player, the one who has spent the most time, dedication, hours and strategy in his city, is now limited by no power to continue as before, due to the impossibility of gaining so many kp (a burden that each chapter is extremely difficult in the extreme the kp that every investigation asks ... nonsense!)

2.- About "helping" the small player ... if you know what awaits you, what do you think you will grow fast knowing what awaits you without being prepared like us, what we have spent years to be where we are? No, and if you extend it at the time, in the end it will penalize you the same ... that is, we will give examples of new players:
Player A, start, go up fast until you reach the chapter where they already ask for mana, for example, and from there, the mana is already a problem (or the orcs before ...), ask them to stop if or if, and do everything like we did before. During that time, he will scale wonders (as we did), buy a diamond expansion (as we all have), and these two things will punish him very hard ... making his tournaments and towers more difficult.
Player B, he comes up slowly, and he is doing wonders at the same time with the pdc he is winning in tournaments ... ERROR, he is penalized by the new "formula" and the game ends very soon due to the difficulty it will be to do wonders already which greatly increases the size of the platoon ...
Player C raises quickly and normally, with almost no wonder levels and almost no premium expansions ... predictions? before chapter 10, you will lack safe space, (only with the chapter of the orcs ... without expansion it is a hell of 3-5 months) you will lack resources, since you will have less space to produce less, and will "survive" from the alms from a brotherhood companion who will have to help him perform in towers, tournaments and advance in chapters ... SECURE LOCK.

Surely there will be more examples, but only with these 3, in the end you realize that, even being small, you have an advantage with this, because you end up dying sooner or later ... with which, we go to the Z players (those of the chapter 16)
Players who have invested time, money, strategies, different styles of play here, and now see how simply buying diamonds seriously hurts them, do you think they will buy again? NEVER. Not one more expansion ...
Just being here for so long hurts you, because so many kp were invested in wonders and now you have so many levels of wonders. Are you planning to destroy them? Eliminate them with the amount of kp invested?
Wonders are SPECIAL buildings, whose sole function is to help EVERYTHING regarding the game, from productivity, space, strategy, ranking, population, culture, EVERYTHING, that is why we have always strategically chosen the wonders that Due to the race we were going, were they more suitable, and now it turns out that having as many or as many levels kills us completely?
IT'S A HUGE MISTAKE TO PUT THE WONDERS INTO THE EQUATION, LIKE EXPANSIONS!

3.- I cannot believe, I do not give credit, that after what I have explained previously, someone who creates a game, directs it and suddenly creates changes like this, hopes to raise or earn more money ... because this will lead to bankruptcy! Neither the small player will invest money in diamonds, because each expansion he buys will damage him, and each kp he buys too ... not even the big player will spend a single euro again, because he will be punished enough with the levels of wonders he has and expansions! This has no feet or head!
Before you drop a bomb like this, think, analyze, and think that a player will always pay and buy if he makes a profit on it, but you have taken such a turn that if you buy it you will be penalized!
And this I argue as well.

In my main account in Spain, chapter 16, 328 levels of wonders and next premium expansion 6500 diamonds, I have calculated with the tables that the colleagues have left, I was always paying in everything, tower and tournament, I only have 5 factories of each, T1, T2, T3, and with this, I make the complete tower and 1700 points in each tournament, and it still gives me to save a little !!
With the change, and the numbers made, maybe I will save some products, but neither the orcs will allow me to make the 1700 points, nor the mana, possibly I will even lack provisions for my style of play ...
What do I mean? I am forced now, to have to fight if, or if? or having to do half battle, half pay? It does not seem like a good idea, you have removed all possible strategies and you have narrowed the tournaments too much.

On the other hand, I have drawn numbers, and ... SURPRISE! Not one of my wonders at level 30, which I have about 8-9 ... compensates me enough, that is, there is so much the penalty for having 328 levels of wonders, for example, not even the cavern benefits me enough producing To maintain it, neither the forge helps me so much with the orcs as to maintain it, nor the labyrinth sustains me the expense of mana that I will need ... nor the towers of the dusk will give me enough to pay what the tower asks for due to my expansions and my levels of wonders ... and so I can continue with each and every one of them ...
Conclusion: I will be forced then, not to buy a premium expansion again, and to do without some of my wonders at level 30 after the amount of time I have dedicated to uploading them? The answer is clear ... if I want to "survive" and help my brotherhood, fulfilling those 1700 points ... YES ... since I cannot remove the expansions, all I can do is reduce the size of the platoon on the basis of eliminating wonders ... with which you leave in evidence a part that was strategically key in elvenar, the use of wonders since they saved us space and buildings, population or culture and a long etc of necessary things ... now we can not have them ??

Marindor, I read you say that despite the new setting, whoever has premium expansions or many levels of wonders will always be more "benefited" than harmed, as space and wonders will help make a tournament easier. This data is totally FALSE, seeing my numbers, comparing with the sheet that passed through here, and seeing what it will cost me to do a single tournament, it is clear that it is FALSE, since now the wonders will harm me so much as to affirm, that the damage due to their level is greater than the benefit I get from having them. And well of the expansions I think it is very clear ... more space will not give you more help in resources, products, supplies, or anything at all, since accumulating expansions, despite giving you space, will increase the size of the platoon as much or more, that it will not be beneficial to you even if you dedicate those "extra" spaces to putting factories and workshops to compensate it.

We are telling you with data, I do not understand how players can know this, and a programmer who drops a bomb like this does not realize it! It is unacceptable!

I apologize for extending myself so much, I just try to give an objective, clear and concise opinion on the impediment of elvenar, if this change in tournaments continues like this, and many things do not change in it ... there are serious errors, very big and serious which could seriously be the company, possibly initiating a massive abandonment of top-level players ... a shame.
 
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Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
@palmira I don't think that will happen. That would require tournament ranking points to increase over time. But they remain constant, and sooner or later they will become irrelevant like points for clearing provinces has become - it doesn't matter if you have 50K points or 60K points (10K points difference) from provinces when your score is above milion and you can get around 20-30K points from a single building - even regular houses gives now 5370 points each at max level.
The same will probably happen to tournaments points - they will become irrelevant over time.
So if one takes time to develop to be competitive in tournaments due to extra points, when he finally reaches the end game, his extra tournament points won't matter anymore.
So with this new tournament system, unless changed, from scoring point of view it will sooner or later become irrelevant if we - end game players - are able to beat the mid game players or not.
That of course doesn't mean that that system is not stupid - to punish players for progress so hard, so they loose their competitiveness.
 

maxiqbert

Well-Known Member
@Lovec Krys
I agree it's irrelevant for newcomers, but not for the old specialists. Even less so for those who have the tournament wonder.
Some have more than 100k points from tournament alone!
 

DeletedUser3289

Guest
I doubt that, you can do what you're describing today, past 1*. Given that nothing was mentioned before, I doubt it is anything very new or very meaningful. I'd think it is simply scrolling to the next available province, which was reported as an annoyance before. So if today I have 50 provinces open, that's 6 pages on desktop. If I finish province 35, then to get to province 36 I need to open the list, do a few page scrolls and then click on the province. This gets old very fast, as in vast majority of cases you always open the next one right away.

The thing is, if that's the case, it becomes a lot less relevant in the new setup as there will be a lot fewer unlocked provinces. But moving to a next one would still be equally annoying.
Let’s see. I would love it if skipping = mark as complete. Can skip a whole round of rune shards of other irrelevant stuff.
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
@palmira , @maxiqbert
I myself have 49425 currently on live.
It is not irrelevant now, but it will be in the future (unless points from tournaments increase).
If not changed, you might get someday into the 200K points from tournaments and 10M from other sources (so 200K won't matter as much as it matters now). (or more extreme example: 300K from tourneys & 50M from other sources)
Just like linear increase (production) cannot beat exponential increase (costs), so constant (no increase in points from tourney) cannot beat any increase (increasing points from other sources).
To get the image, just compare your points from tournaments to your total score 2 chapters ago and now.
It all depends how fast points from culture & pop requirements will rise compared to the points from tournaments.
 

Alcaro

Well-Known Member
have you seen today's offer in en servers? This is the way they think we should replace the lost KPs from tournaments? Ahahaha ... and invest in Wonders? This is very funny.
en2 offer KP_1.jpgen2 offer KP_2.jpg

Btw, isn't very clear (at least for me) was there any previous offer for KPs so that now we have a discount? And what would I get actually? Nevermind :D is not like I'm going to run and get that offer :D :D :D
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
@maxiqbert I'm talking about future, those 10 was an example where we can get during next chapters (50M sounds like sci-fi, but 1M was sci-fi too).


@Alcaro Yeah, that's funny, maybe they should rise the price for magical buildings to 20K dia, so they would be more comparable to that KP nonsence.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Live I have a bit over 145k points from tournament alone. The top ranked player has over 183k points from tournament
@palmira , @maxiqbert
I myself have 49425 currently on live.
It is not irrelevant now, but it will be in the future (unless points from tournaments increase).
If not changed, you might get someday into the 200K points from tournaments and 10M from other sources (so 200K won't matter as much as it matters now). (or more extreme example: 300K from tourneys & 50M from other sources)
Just like linear increase (production) cannot beat exponential increase (costs), so constant (no increase in points from tourney) cannot beat any increase (increasing points from other sources).
To get the image, just compare your points from tournaments to your total score 2 chapters ago and now.
It all depends how fast points from culture & pop requirements will rise compared to the points from tournaments.

1595497137530.png
+ (1046 from the 2 new wonders which is implemented in the wondereffect rankingpoint)

I have always seen it as an investment in the future, this means my city is optimised for the tournament instead of ranking points.
I have quite some space dedicated to event producing buildings which for ranking I would better swap for buildings that use pop/cult.

It's quite simple, everyone can throw some cash around and buy itself the max score, but nobody can throw money around and buy tournament ranking points. this makes it an unique edge to differentiate yourself from the others.

Tomorrow I can buy myself the nr1 ranking spot and nobody will be able to beat my score for a long long time, because even of someone buys itself the nr 1 rank every week. as long as I keep doing my dues the difference in points will be minimal and even if you can make up 300 points a week, then 30.000 points will still cost you 100 weeks or 2 years to overcome the difference.
This will makes this score NEVER irrelevant.

It takes a lot of dedication to get this far, but that is why I started playing the tournaments initially.

have you seen today's offer in en servers? This is the way they think we should replace the lost KPs from tournaments? Ahahaha ... and invest in Wonders? This is very funny.
View attachment 7650View attachment 7651

Btw, isn't very clear (at least for me) was there any previous offer for KPs so that now we have a discount? And what would I get actually? Nevermind :D is not like I'm going to run and get that offer :D :D :D
:eek: indeed the irony :mad:
 

Angeduciel

Well-Known Member
I haven't read all the previous comments so probably it was already mentionned (sorry for that). My tourney strategy here on Beta is catering. The lower catering costs are supposed to help me but I can't go as far as I use to because I am always missing MANA. The requirements of mana (not to mention gold, tools and orcs) are way too high :mad: I can not upgrade any buildings requiring mana, I can not upgrade my streets, I can not make progess . I am at chap 15 and I find this very frustrating.
 

Marindor

Well-Known Member
Hi everyone,

Sorry for the confusion about "skipping to the next province". What's meant is that we're looking into a way of making browser a bit similar to mobile: When you complete a province, the camera pans to the next province automatically.

Edit: Sorry, there was some miscommunication. That is still on our wish list as well, but for now it's about easier cooldown skip with diamonds or time boosters.
 
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Verde

Well-Known Member
Hi everyone,

Sorry for the confusion about "skipping to the next province". What's meant is that we're looking into a way of making browser a bit similar to mobile: When you complete a province, the camera pans to the next province automatically.
That would definitely be good ... one of the nice features on the app :)
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
When you complete a province, the camera pans to the next province automatically.
That would be very bad for players with 100% cooldown reduction. Hope there would be an exception for that case.
+ hope that "next province" wouldn't be #10 6* or #8 5* each time you finish #11+ 5*
for players without 100% cooldown. Last time I've tried to play tourney on mobile that was pretty annoying.
 

Jaxom

Well-Known Member
Nice most of the time, except that I hate it when the app keeps going back to a province that I have chosen to not do.
If I have limited time I focus on the ones that give me the KPs or MM spells. So in round 2 I will do 1, 4, 7 and then 10+. But the app keeps putting me back to #2, the first not-done province.
I wish it would just go to the next province after the one I completed, not the first one that is uncompleted.
 
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