Discussion Tournament Changes (post-release)

[DeletedUser3314]

Presumably you refer to things Like Mountain Halls, Golden Abyss, Prosperity Towers, etc....

Too bad those where nerfed after level 30 and don't give extra population anymore.

 

[Lovec Krys]

So no one upgrades them beyond lv 30.

 

[Pauly7]

Too bad those where nerfed after level 30 and don't give extra population anymore.

That's a good point. As much as Inno can't intend to have an AW that there is no useful reason for owning, surely they can't have an AW level that there is no useful reason for making.

 

[Lovec Krys]

Simple: Until Inno accepts the fact that the formula needs to be reworked, end game cities have these solutions:
1) Accept worsening performance in both Spire & Tournaments and focus on some other aspect(s).
2) Stop progressing (no more research)
3) Destroy any unnecessary wonders
4) Stop or very limit AWs level increase&Expansion placement
5) Quit

2,3&4 are temporary, unless one does them all at once and completely stops city's progression in research,wonders & expansions.
Just a note I have chosen 1 and my future tournaments will have only 2 goals:
- Get a BP (my red line, if BP was moved from 10th chest to a higher chest preventing end game cities 10 chest FAs to get them, I would have quit)
- Concentrate all my resources on 2 tournaments to maintain my MM spell creation 24/7 (over 7K points in 2 tournaments needed) without losing relics (this should be achievable for me for some time, hopefuly long enough until the formula is reworked).

ps: Liked these 58 (and previous 30+) pages? Get ready for what happens once this changes hits live on both forums (rage topics) & game (unknown number of end game cities quitting).

 

[guivou]

There are also several others which it is very dubious as to whether they can help tournaments, such as Blooming Trader, Sunset Towers, Vortex of Storage, Enar's Embassy.

blooming trader and vortex of storage help race portal , so perhaps reduces the number of race building and spare space , space that can be used for military or resource building ...

each wonder has a specific interest so very difficult to sort impact and difficult to be sure that upgrading will benefit more than the impact on tournament : the better is exclude ALL wonders from the formula ...

 

[Pauly7]

blooming trader and vortex of storage help race portal , so perhaps reduces the number of race building and spare space , space that can be used for military or resource building ...

That's why they were on my 'dubious' list. You could make an argument that they will save space, as you say, but for most people it just means completing researches faster... and thus increasing tournament difficulty faster. Also, remember that the AW itself takes free space away. It's similar, in a way, to the argument over premium expansions. They could give an advantage, depending on what you do with that space, but if someone is paying money to buy an extra space they should be free to keep it as temporary space, or use it for culture, etc.

the better is exclude ALL wonders from the formula ...

This is the right answer. At this point it seems very unlikely that this is ever going to happen, so if we can persuade them that some more complex adjustments need to be done that might be the only way of getting a win. There is no way that Thrones of the High Men should ever have the same difficulty impact as Sanctuary, for example. As @Marindor says, people can make their own decisions, but if nothing changes then there will be strong advice from seasoned players to every new player to never build certain AWs. I wouldn't be surprised if it starts popping up in some Fellowships' requirements - "Must not own Thrones of the High Men if you want to be in this FS".

So... and I know I'm saying the same thing over and over... There shouldn't be AWs that have been made entirely useless, i.e. the net negative impact is definitely worse than the benefit. After all, Inno started out by saying this would never happen.

 

[spennyit]

I liked quite a lot the idea to exclude "chapter level" in the AW levels counting (i.e. a LV 30 AW will count as 14 if you are in chapter 16), but this is just because my AWs are at very low level and I finished chapter 16

The number we see seems to indicate that it will be very difficult to find something to enjoy in this game: Spire & Tournaments will be almost impossible, races will be almost impossible (because no more extra KPs and all resources will be drained by Spire & Tournaments), growing AWs will be almost impossible (no more extra KPs and a further damage to Spire & Tournaments), city development no more possible (resources drained by Spire & Tournaments), events/FA are already out of my scope. Maybe I am missing important game aspects, but the situation is not "nice" :-(

 

[marcovaldo19]

I think that inno should really reconsider the tournament encounters rewards. In spire we get magical house and magical lab and diamonds on individual performance. In tournament there is nothing similar except the FS chests. But the cost is on individuals and the cost is raised a lot.

 

[Maillie]

I am wondering if the cities that call themselves "unusual cities" or "event cities" are what is wanted here. Just make a new city, never advance it beyond Orcs, and build level ones. You wouldn't have to purchase any expansions, nor would you need to spend money on events. This way we could all play the tournament and spire with credible scores. Is this really what Inno wants? It seems contradictory to the health of the game to have developers creating new chapters that people will no longer play, and refuse to pay for expansions to use.

Of course there could be some that are willing to spend 3 or 4 years in chapter 17; unfortunately, that's not me. I am doing as much of the tournament as I can right now. As soon as this hits live the rest of Embassies will be an excruciatingly slow crawl. I'm not very good at crawling.

 

[Karvest]

gathered some more stats:

Spoiler: catering cost comparison between last 2 tourneys

9 up to 6*
	T1	T2	T3	Money	Supplies	Orcs	Mana
marble	620500	362800	309 200	22 240 000	1 098 000	44 620	336 700
steel	572800	604000	268 200	13 250 000	786 000	25 700	359 600
delta	-7,69%	66,48%	-13,26%	-40,42%	-28,42%	-42,40%	6,80%

20 up to 5*
	T1	T2	T3	Money	Supplies	Orcs	Mana
marble	2076500	1221800	1 043 200	57 140 000	3 878 000	136 520	1 318 700
steel	1972800	1672000	1 082 200	50 250 000	4 386 000	70 900	774 600
delta	-4,99%	36,85%	3,74%	-12,06%	13,10%	-48,07%	-41,26%

30 up to 5*
	T1	T2	T3	Money	Supplies	Orcs	Mana
marble	3923500	2829800	2 042 200	102 640 000	8 378 000	287 220	2 634 700
steel	4234800	3084000	2 209 200	93 750 000	12 166 000	168 900	1 047 600
delta	7,93%	8,98%	8,18%	-8,66%	45,21%	-41,19%	-60,24%

40 up to 5*
	T1	T2	T3	Money	Supplies	Orcs	Mana
marble	6847500	5279800	3 103 200	164 140 000	15 298 000	451 220	4 394 700
steel	7289800	5214000	3 792 200	161 950 000	16 636 000	304 900	1 907 600
delta	6,46%	-1,25%	22,20%	-1,33%	8,75%	-32,43%	-56,59%

troops:

lm:	12,70%
lr:	9,14%
ma:	54,98%
hm:	13,97%
hr:	9,21%

 

[Deleted User - 89361]

One thing that definitely needs to be reviewed is the 11-19 chests prizes. It is that 1 RR and 10 AW KP is simply not enough to cover the increased difficulty of getting them in the new tournament. Yes, one can argue that before you reached the 10th chest and ended up there, after 40k you didn't receive anything else, whereas now we would be receiving something at least, that's true. But considering that many people from now on will only be able to open half of the provinces than before, and therefore win half of KP, spells and relics, it would be good to add a better incentive than 1 RR + 10 KP. That would help counter the feeling shared by many players that now you have to work much harder to earn less. It would make it a little more worth it.

 

[Ashrem]

One thing that definitely needs to be reviewed is the 11-19 chests prizes. It is that 1 RR and 10 AW KP is simply not enough to cover the increased difficulty of getting them in the new tournament.

I disagree. There are lots of elite rewards, and the game doesn't need more things to make smaller / less-competative groups feel inadequate. If they've done the balancing right, there should be fewer groups exceeding ten chests, and I feel like they can do it for the prestige like they do now. The rewards are extra, and should not be large enough to engender frustrating levels of jealousy in people who will never obtain them.

 

[Deleted User - 89361]

I disagree. There are lots of elite rewards, and the game doesn't need more things to make smaller / less-competative groups feel inadequate. If they've done the balancing right, there should be fewer groups exceeding ten chests, and I feel like they can do it for the prestige like they do now. The rewards are extra, and should not be large enough to engender frustrating levels of jealousy in people who will never obtain them.

I think the most elite rewards you could get were +500 KP, plus dozens of spells weekly opening as many provinces as you could, and that was severely interrupted. While at the other end, changes were made so that the smaller fellowships could reach the 10th chest more easily, and not feel so 'inadequate'. Which I think is great.
The problem is with those players who were used to achieving so much and now with the new tournament they feel they will have to work twice as hard to win only half as much as before. To solve that, it would be good to relocate some of the individual rewards taken away to a collective level in the 11-19 chests, to feel that they are still there, only now they are achieved in a different way.

 

[Ashrem]

I think the most elite rewards you could get were +500 KP, plus dozens of spells weekly opening as many provinces as you could, and that was severely interrupted. While at the other end, changes were made so that the smaller fellowships could reach the 10th chest more easily, and not feel so 'inadequate'. Which I think is great.
The problem is with those players who were used to achieving so much and now with the new tournament they feel they will have to work twice as hard to win only half as much as before. To solve that, it would be good to relocate some of the individual rewards taken away to a collective level in the 11-19 chests, to feel that they are still there, only now they are achieved in a different way.

The giant collections of KP are individual rewards, not group awards, and personally, I think making them tough or even impossible to get is good for the game. Otherwise future chapters would be more of the same, with hundreds of KP needed to complete a single tech in order to give people something to do with the hundreds of KP they get every week.

There are also substantial rewards for groups in the Spire and a little in Fellowship Adventures. Unless the game is going to go all-out power-crazy, I think it needs to smooth out the curve of prizes to be sustainable, to avoid elite cities which drive new players away in frustration.

 

[Deleted User - 89361]

The giant collections of KP are individual rewards, not group awards, and personally, I think making them tough or even impossible to get is good for the game. Otherwise future chapters would be more of the same, with hundreds of KP needed to complete a single tech in order to give people something to do with the hundreds of KP they get every week.

There are also substantial rewards for groups in the Spire and a little in Fellowship Adventures. Unless the game is going to go all-out power-crazy, I think it needs to smooth out the curve of prizes to be sustainable, to avoid elite cities which drive new players away in frustration.

The problem with your stance is that you seem to agree with making the game easier for smaller or less competitive players, closing the gap between average and elite players, which I completely agree with, but on the other hand you want to take acquired rewards from high* end players and not give them anything in return, only that they smile, keep playing as if nothing happened and be happy? The only thing I'm proposing is that part of those rewards that they were used to and were taken away, be relocated to another place that they can aim to achieve, and thus feel that it's still worth making an effort as before, not for the amount that they were used to, but at least something more than 1 RR + 10 AW KP...
Edit: *high instead of low

 

[Ashrem]

The problem with your stance is that you seem to agree with making the game easier for smaller or less competitive players, closing the gap between average and elite players, which I completely agree with, but on the other hand you want to take acquired rewards from low end players and not give them anything in return, only that they smile, keep playing as if nothing happened and be happy? The only thing I'm proposing is that part of those rewards that they were used to and were taken away, be relocated to another place that they can aim to achieve, and thus feel that it's still worth making an effort as before, not for the amount that they were used to, but at least something more than 1 RR + 10 AW KP...

I find that position hard to understand. I don't know what you are considering low end players, but the ones I'm talking about have fewer than 15 provinces open per tournament, so are not getting 500 KP per tournament, and are not generally capable of getting enough points to be in a group that consistently gets ten chests, let alone more than ten, so you aren't moving anything for them. There vast majority of them will never get the 11th chest.

 

[spennyit]

gathered some more stats:
troops:

lm:	12,70%
lr:	9,14%
ma:	54,98%
hm:	13,97%
hr:	9,21%

Can you, please, specify what these percentages represent? The quantities of fighted enemies? Did you fight or cater? Have you comparison between lost troops? Thank you

 

[Karvest]

That's a number of times I faced specific type of enemy divided by number of all seen enemies.
Lost units are mostly forest wardens, since I used them more than others this tourney.
Almost all enemy setups are different, btw (seen duplicate setup only 2 times).

 

[spennyit]

That's a number of times I faced specific type of enemy divided by number of all seen enemies.
Lost units are mostly forest wardens, since I used them more than others this tourney.
Almost all enemy setups are different, btw (seen duplicate setup only 2 times).

Thank you Have you an idea of how many forest warden squads did you lose and how many more than in real with the same tournament results (i.e. about same provinces/stars)?

 

[Marindor]

Hi everyone,

We made a small error in the announcement yesterday, when we stated that the Crystal Tournament would have a focus on Light and Heavy Melee units, but this schould be Silk, not Crystal. We have updated the announcement text now.