• Dear forum reader,

    To actively participate on the forum by joining discussions or starting your own threads or topics, you need a game account and to REGISTER HERE!

Discussion Tournament Changes (post-release)

Dony

King of Bugs
demand is far less for lower level but production too , what is important is comparison between demand and production

and it's totally abnormal that a beginner fighter (ie without boost) should stop so early (equal squad size at round 4 province 5, so i guess it will be the same round 5 province 4 and round 6 province 3

i remember my start 9 month ago on khelonar , full fight on my 4 or 5 provinces were doable ... (edit : not totaly full fight, but 85% , some catering when bad configuration of enemy troops : here it's always very bad configuration)
how many free expansion did you placed? because my chapter 3 city had 100 times cheaper negotiations then yours
thats the balancing issue i keep talking about, same chapter and completely different experience, as you can imagine i can do endless amount of provinces with my city compared to yours
 

guivou

Well-Known Member
city expansion 1 to 5 (research not finished for 6)

28/50 provinces (one expansion not yet placed )
 

LOKINHO

Well-Known Member
I have read the 55 pages ... and seriously, I can agree little or nothing with these changes, and as players that we are, we can protest, complain, give ideas and others, but what cannot be done is to be hypocrites.

During all the messages, we have been complaining and with reason and reasons for this change, since it affects us a lot, the level of our wonders, and the expansions that we have paid to have, up to here, everything OK.

Of course, a single combat instead of 4 per province is BETTER, so far, everything OK.
But I cannot read even once more, players who complained a few pages ago, or a few days ago, about the enormous losses of troops they had, trying to reach province 30 or overcome it (to try to do the same or similar, at the that was done in previous tournaments) and now that mirandor, informs us that they are working to try that we can use the 3 troop buildings at the same time, which would give us triple the number of troops (since each one would go to the margin of the other ) and if you add the use of the brown bear, it would be even more troops ... it turns out that you come here to complain again? NOT BY GOD ... NO !!!

I mean, they give you a solution to the suicide of troops for wanting to advance more in tournaments ... they are in it, but the idea is to be able to produce 3 different troops at the same time, being human, I would say to create magicians (barracks) ranger-prince frog (mercenary camp) and in the training ground for keepers or orc strategists or whatever (if it is used, if not then NO ... that simple)
That said, I can more or less agree on this "solution" to the problem of lack of troops, since although I look for the little ones, they do not have two or three military buildings ... so they would be harmed or not they would benefit from this ... but on the other hand, they cannot make "many provinces" either, and this would rather be of help to high-level players, than if we had 2 or 3 military buildings to use them ... I do not think it is a bad measure, also retouching as said, the appearance of orcs in trade and mana ... or as others have proposed, that the orc strategists and others, do not ASK for orcs to create them, and ask for supplies as with the rest of troops which is the most fair.

Comrades, we can give ideas, we can complain about what is being implemented without a prior, well-conducted study, but we cannot go crazy saying yesterday this is wrong, it gives us a "half solution" and we complain because this is also wrong ... that is not It is correct on our part, and if we continue like this, they will not listen to us or read or take us seriously.
They are also studying reducing expansions from the equation, this is a positive thing, and the next thing should be to do the same or eliminate the wonder level from the equation.
These things, both, IF they would help everyone, small and large, IF they are great remedies for these great mistakes ... and as I said before, avoid something else the orcs in business, or eliminate them for the creation in troops, since the rest just ask for supplies, it would be a great help !! Because they are great warriors, and they help us a lot.

On the other hand, new events are coming out ... where they could also take out some other building that helps us militarily speaking, but without it happening like last year, ONE BUILDING, and not several. Let me explain ... if 3 bears come out, they can be obtained at most, those 3 bears, and not 21 !!! If phoenixes come out, you can get those phoenixes, one of each, but not 2 of each !! This is what has caused the game to break in favor of a few ...

On the other hand, having already so many buildings of this type, I would ask you to rethink the fact that pet food appears more often or more frequently ... otherwise, we will be stuck again in no time ...
Here you have these suggestions and ideas to improve the game. I hope they do not fall on deaf ears ...
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
informs us that they are working to try that we can use the 3 troop buildings at the same time, which would give us triple the number of troops
If you are elf - all those additional troops would just stay in your city or die at later provinces cause they can't win. If you are human - half of these troops would do the same.
That's from endgame perspective. For smaller players it's even worse.
 

spennyit

Well-Known Member
BTW, another really bad thing is having more than 3 types of troops: with the app not having manual combat is horrible, but even with pc being forced to play manual when we didn't want a fighting game ...

With 3 types of troops it is already difficult in many situations (expecially in the spire with double/triple rounds), but with 4/5 types ... If you really want this change, please, do it only for really high provinces ;-)
 

Aeva

Well-Known Member
Maybe, but nobody is able to show comparison numbers that demonstrate what you are saying, while a few showed numbers that demonstrate the contrary.
That might be because the comparision is mostly done by either endgamers beta or endgamers live. The group that benefits are casual and mediocre players and fellowships, most live players actually. There might be someone who is able to compare numbers, but that is not very likely. Probably one of the analists is able to if they have the right numbers, but who has numbers?
And I am comparing the ease with which I can play in my city on beta before and after. Plus I am defenitely doing better here in chapter 6 compared to chapter 7 live.
 

guivou

Well-Known Member
now catering cost :
round 3

10 k gold, 650 tools, 490 t1, 250 t2

round 4

12k gold, 1 k tools, 350 t1, 560 t2
(for the fifth province 166 T2 + 110 T1 )



asking for 1 day t2 production is far too much , should not ask for t2 so earlier ..


round 5
16k gold, 2.4 k tool, 259 t1, 508 t2
and for province 5
200807085850441229.jpg

(combat easier than round 4 )
 

Maillie

Well-Known Member
I am an endgame player, but not what would be referred to as a "fanatical" player, more as mediocre. I play for fun, not to become a top player. I don't have multiple brown bears with some unlimited supply of pet food to keep them going. If I could get all three of the military buildings going at the same time ... without a huge nerf to pay for it ... it would be very helpful.

When the Phoenix was introduced it was brought up in the forum to limit it to one. That would have solved the problems that instigated this tournament redesign. Now the simplest solution is to limit the amount of kp by stopping it at 30, or 40 provinces, whatever, rather than shooting the endgame players that can do more because there was no limit on the Phoenix and Brown Bear.

Essentially, the top players were having great fun with their multiple event buildings, the mediocre endgame players were having fun with their kp earnings. I can see where there could be an improvement to other levels of players, but this seems to be amiss. Who would want to become an endgame player? Of course we have more expansions, where would we put 6 levels of gigantic sentient and boosted goods buildings and a Main Hall that's the size of Europe? Oh, and a settlement area, and buildings for seeds, and buildings for mana, and buildings for Orcs, and ....
 
Last edited:

PaNonymeB

Well-Known Member
The group that benefits are casual and mediocre players and fellowships, most live players actually.
Actually it benefits people that do 6* in tournaments and don't do a lot of provinces, i.e. active early-game players. No one stays in this category for a long time (except accounts that don't use their activity for their own progress i.e. push accounts.)
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
Actually it benefits people that do 6* in tournaments and don't do a lot of provinces, i.e. active early-game players. No one stays in this category for a long time (except accounts that don't use their activity for their own progress i.e. push accounts.)
Or cities like mine. Early chapter 5 now and not the right timing to do 6 stars. But in three of the four tournaments with the new format, I had 8 provinces open, so 5 stars in all 8 is an easy 1600+ points. No military boosts at all, not even Needles built yet, and I can fight and win in at least 35 of those 40 encounters.
 

PaNonymeB

Well-Known Member
Or cities like mine. Early chapter 5 now and not the right timing to do 6 stars. But in three of the four tournaments with the new format, I had 8 provinces open, so 5 stars in all 8 is an easy 1600+ points. No military boosts at all, not even Needles built yet, and I can fight and win in at least 35 of those 40 encounters.
But do you expect to stay at this point for a while ?
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
But do you expect to stay at this point for a while ?

I will be moving much slower in my Beta city than in my Live city that is done with chapter 16 because I will not be over scouting. I actually had to rush through several provinces just to have the minimum completed to move into chapter 5.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
But I cannot read even once more, players who complained a few pages ago, or a few days ago, about the enormous losses of troops they had, trying to reach province 30 or overcome it (to try to do the same or similar, at the that was done in previous tournaments) and now that mirandor, informs us that they are working to try that we can use the 3 troop buildings at the same time, which would give us triple the number of troops (since each one would go to the margin of the other ) and if you add the use of the brown bear, it would be even more troops ... it turns out that you come here to complain again? NOT BY GOD ... NO !!!
Really dumb understanding of the problem. Those extra troops are weaker and trying to use them they'd just be completely wiped out, about 5-10 provinces earlier. Triple the number of troops when the extra ones you would be able to build at the same time would be slaughtered several provinces earlier doesn't help at all, and if building speed is slowed down, it actually hurts. You could only use them on provinces where the losses with your stronger troops are extremely low.


When the Phoenix was introduced it was brought up in the forum to limit it to one. That would have solved the problems that instigated this tournament redesign. Now the simplest solution is to limit the amount of kp by stopping it at 30, or 40 provinces, whatever, rather than shooting the endgame players that can do more because there was no limit on the Phoenix and Brown Bear.
Wrong, before the bears and phoenix I was able to go out 50-60 provinces. You could just do the first two levels, and not burn a lot of resources and have a nice kp bonus. Level 5 would be between 25 and 40 provinces, and level 6 only the first 9 provinces unless broken runes were needed or to compete for place.

Top players weren't playing a square box, they were playing for where the kp was located and the least resources to get them.
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
Time for some numbers:
I did a negotiation costs comparison for the first 15 provinces between live (6th round) and beta (5th round), both embassies chapters (live finished, beta 3rd coulmn from the end, so few weeks before finishing the chapter). In Spire Live has over 70% penalty from expansions & wonder levels compared to beta.

T1: Live 652990, Beta 177400 (27% or 73% less)...(with 70% expected penalty 46% or 54% less)
T2: Live 687490, Beta 218700 (31% or 69% less)...(with 70% expected penalty 54% or 46% less)
T3: Live 625080, Beta 73500 (11% or 89% less)...(with 70% expected penalty 20% or 80% less)
Orcs: Live 12373, Beta 17600 (142% or 42% more!)...(with 70% expected penalty 242% or 142% more!! - more than doubled)
Coins: Beta 4,45M (3x prov 1+6+11)
Tools: Beta 780K (4x prov 4+6+12+14)
Mana: 150K (3x prov 10+13+15)


Averages for the 5 rounds beta:
Coins 4,43M, Tools 426K, Mana 98400, Orcs 13910
Totals for tournament:
Coins 22,15M, Tools 2,13M, Orcs 69550, Mana 492K

Note for orcs:
Beta 5* prov 5 (3400), prov 7 (4100), prov 8 (4500), prov 11 (5600)
Live 6* prov 40 (4380), prov 41 (4980), prov 42 (3660), prov 50 (5110), prov 51 (4560), prov 52 (4580), prov 59 (5590), prov 60 (4620), prov 61 (7600)
Amount of needed orcs is unreasonable high, provinces 7&8 are equals to live 40+ provinces prices and prov. 11! price is equal to 50+ on live!!!

For comparison production:
1 T1 12h (3h+9h) (lv 31 (max)) 19258
1 T2 12h (3h+9h) (lv 28 (not max)) 17323
1 T3 12h (3h+9h) (lv 27 (max)) 13336
1 Armory 12h (lv 37(max)) 1600
 

DeletedUser2300

Guest
Has there been any mention of changes since the introduction of this? I have looked through the pages and have not seen any mention by @Marindor
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
Time for some numbers:
I did a negotiation costs comparison for the first 15 provinces between live (6th round) and beta (5th round), both embassies chapters (live finished, beta 3rd coulmn from the end, so few weeks before finishing the chapter). In Spire Live has over 70% penalty from expansions & wonder levels compared to beta.

T1: Live 652990, Beta 177400 (27% or 73% less)...(with 70% expected penalty 46% or 54% less)
T2: Live 687490, Beta 218700 (31% or 69% less)...(with 70% expected penalty 54% or 46% less)
T3: Live 625080, Beta 73500 (11% or 89% less)...(with 70% expected penalty 20% or 80% less)
Orcs: Live 12373, Beta 17600 (142% or 42% more!)...(with 70% expected penalty 242% or 142% more!! - more than doubled)
Coins: Beta 4,45M (3x prov 1+6+11)
Tools: Beta 780K (4x prov 4+6+12+14)
Mana: 150K (3x prov 10+13+15)


Averages for the 5 rounds beta:
Coins 4,43M, Tools 426K, Mana 98400, Orcs 13910
Totals for tournament:
Coins 22,15M, Tools 2,13M, Orcs 69550, Mana 492K

Note for orcs:
Beta 5* prov 5 (3400), prov 7 (4100), prov 8 (4500), prov 11 (5600)
Live 6* prov 40 (4380), prov 41 (4980), prov 42 (3660), prov 50 (5110), prov 51 (4560), prov 52 (4580), prov 59 (5590), prov 60 (4620), prov 61 (7600)
Amount of needed orcs is unreasonable high, provinces 7&8 are equals to live 40+ provinces prices and prov. 11! price is equal to 50+ on live!!!

For comparison production:
1 T1 12h (3h+9h) (lv 31 (max)) 19258
1 T2 12h (3h+9h) (lv 28 (not max)) 17323
1 T3 12h (3h+9h) (lv 27 (max)) 13336
1 Armory 12h (lv 37(max)) 1600
Totally agree on the insanity of the cost of orcs. I burned through 60% of my accumulated orcs already. I was gradually building them up over a period of months. My 6.5 chapter lower beta account required more orcs at half the province number compared to live. I didn't even need orcs for the tournament, just the spire.
 
Top