Discussion The Cauldron

[Karvest]

anyway,

The Effects listed are available when you research all the Technologies and gain the Research Diploma of that Chapter.

is not true, someone could try to get effect from specific chapter after reading this.

 

[Biloutte91]

There is also a BIG PROBLEM The boosts are not visible on tablet or smartphone...you can't see any indications like on PC

Tablet:

PC:

(french lives screens)

 

[Lovec Krys]

Yes. What I mean is that for example, you can't have "effects" unurium or ascended if you are chapter X

Who cares about cauldron's ascended bonus anyway, when we have this with 100% probability:

 

[Bor de Wolf 1965]

So if I understand it right you need to do a full chapter to get the diploma for it and are allowed to "learn" a new potion.
In that case players that like to play the pacifist and don't wish to do the none mandatory squad size, are screwed for they can't learn new potions.

 

[Prueba2]

So if I understand it right you need to do a full chapter to get the diploma for it and are allowed to "learn" a new potion.
In that case players that like to play the pacifist and don't wish to do the none mandatory squad size, are screwed for they can't learn new potions.

"Pacifist / Caterer" = "Hardcore difficulty"

EDIT: As always with all functionalities...
still waiting for some Spectral Stones to drop in the Spire as alternative to Dwarven Armorer...
or Catering cost reducing expiring building to be crafted regularly in the Magic Academy or , even a Potion effect in the Cauldron...

 

[Lovec Krys]

I'll exchange Spectral stones for Dwarven armorers. For me, Spectral stones are useless since i've been only fighting in Spire far longer than Spectral stones exists.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I'll exchange Spectral stones for Dwarven armorers. For me, Spectral stones are useless since i've been only fighting in Spire far longer than Spectral stones exists.

Same here. I don't even know how many I have because I never negotiate in my US city. I do very rarely negotiate in the Spire in my Beta city, but it has been months since the last time I had to.

 

[Prueba2]

@Lovec Krys @Enevhar Aldarion , yeah , I know that feeling...

 

[Alcaro]

@Lovec Krys @Enevhar Aldarion , yeah , I know that feeling...
View attachment 10779

You are breaking my heart!!!!

 

[Dhurrin]

IS there actually a chance of triggering multiple effects?
This week ; increased taxes, nothing, increased taxes, increased taxes...so only 1 active effect
Last week; nothing, increased taxes, nothing, increased taxes...so ALSO only 1 effect
Week before that; nothing, supply surplus, supply surplus, nothing..AGAIN only 1 effect
Week before that; general mayhem, nothing, nothing, general mayhem...AGAIN only 1 active effect
-
Also, if my chances of succes are supposed to be 68.9% then how come I only see an effect 9 out of 16 times, or 56.3% so far? Even with only 4 weeks that seems to be rather off, it is a discrepancy of over 10%.
And all 4 weeks only 1 active effect. This last could possibly be explained by the increased chances of a specific effect, but even so. I only can use a limited amount of ingredients, so the chances of 1 effect over another are not so high that this is likely anymore.

 

[Bor de Wolf 1965]

Depending on the type of potion you make you can actually have a chance on 2 or 3 effects at the same time.
And I had it happen to me in the first week we had the cauldron.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

@Dhurrin every goblet can give you a different effect or they can all fail. So you can have from zero to 5 at one time.

 

[LOKINHO]

I'm not even near to your numbers and bought much more points than you. You should diversify usage of different resources to get most profit from them.
View attachment 10493

Hello Karvest, I have a question.
Once the resources have been used this week and the witchcraft points have been spent where it suits me, my question is: when the cauldron is activated again next week, these spending values start again at 0? that is, for example, you spent resources until you reached 5063, for the following week, continue that value from there? or starts from its beginning (whatever it was).
And another question, according to your image, you have reached 1964 sorcery points for each resource expenditure you make, my question is, next week, start from 0? Or does it go on and on from 1964?
Thanks!

 

[Karvest]

You continue from same point.

 

[Dhurrin]

@Dhurrin every goblet can give you a different effect or they can all fail. So you can have from zero to 5 at one time.

That's what they tell me. The problem is I don't see it happening. ZERO times out of 4.

Update :
Used the Cauldron the first time on live earlier today; I am at the end of the techtree. Chances of triggering an effect 98+ % And yet TWO OUT OF THE FIVE goblets failed to activate an effect. So a 40% fail rate when succes rate is supposed to be over 98%!
Sorry, but this is statistically getting to a point that is so close to impossible I can no longer trust any of the crap about percentages that Inno tells me.

And yes, I did trigger 2 effects on live.
So out of 5 goblets 2 fails, 2x the same effect and 1 other effect. Really? Why would anyone want to screw around with this mechanic if it is screwed this much?

 

[Karvest]

With the help of @Prueba2 (I was too lazy to create original sheet and fill it with data) and microsoft excel solver got few recipes for fighters this week.

 

[Laurelin-Beta]

@Prueba2 @Karvest : That's great work! Unfortunately, though, it's not obvious to me just from the screenshots what the figures, abbreviations etc. indicate, nor how to I might use this data to create Recipes myself? I can't even tell which Ingredients to use, I'm afraid, just from the screenshots.

I'd be most grateful if either of you could please kindly label/explain the data shown in the charts, as I currently can't understand most of it!

Much gratitude in advance...

 

[Karvest]

The actual recipe is the list on the left top corner. it shows the number of used ingredients from first to last. (it's even divided to 3 groups of 4 ingredients like they are in game, but aligned vertically). Diamonds-blocked ingredients are marked "1" near the list. The big matrix on the right side is data from game files used to calculate effect probabilities.
Each recipe is limited by amount of witch points and research diplomas available. Preferred effects are marked light green, and have their weights (which are used to favor some effects over other) listed below.
After setting all those things up I start microsoft excel solver addin which tries to maximize weighted sum of preferred effects probabilities. The result of that process is on these screenshots - ingredients and amount of witch points used, and effects probabilities achieved by using them.
When you use recipe, make sure that you start from the maxed used ingredient and then go down to less used ones, as amount of witch points used depends on the inserting order.

I tried to make it on google sheets to be available for everybody online, but failed to find any google sheets solver add-in that can solve that system of equations, only offline one in ms excel 2021 (earlier versions doesn't have =SORT() function used to calculate required amount of witch points, probably version limitation can be surpassed by rewriting that calculation in VBA, but I'm too lazy for that) has done that job.

 

[Prueba2]

Spoiler: Explanation

For example:

On the left the ingredients, see below

On the right, after Research Diplomas, total number of Diplomas and unblocked effects (in blue).
On the right below, the effects % and in green desired effects.

In this case, for someone with 11 Diplomas (not more), interested in battling effects and wanting to spend less than 3429 WP, they coul prepare following recipe (order matters to get minimum cost):
C3 x5
L12 x5
G7 x3
K11 x2
D4 x1
H8 x1
Total cost: 3368 WP
Effects (Potion probability 82.46% / desired effects 68.3%):
36.8% HB Strength
21.2% MC Strength
10.3% TG Strength
...% other effects

EDIT: It seems interesting to expend
10k SpellFragments for +50% bonus and duration increase (x1.5)
40k SpellFragments for +100% bonus and duration increase (x2.0)

EDIT2: By the way we need the "values" and "factors" of effects for 19/20/21/22 Diplomas, please.

 

[Karvest]

btw, to illustrate the fact that having more diplomas than needed is bad:
ch20 city with 11 diplomas unlocked aiming only strength increase buffs (this week on RU2 live server) can get either

Spoiler: 30.1% mc_strength + 31.5 tg_strength=61.6% total

or

Spoiler: 60.3% mc_strength + 11.8% tg_strength = 71.0% total

same city with 18 diplomas unlocked (we still don't have data for later effects), added some witch points to cover the difference in learnt techs, can get only:

Spoiler: 42.1% mc_strength + 5.4% tg_strength = 47.5% total

well, there is some bonus of 5.8% mc_health and 0.6% tg_health, but we are talking about attack buffs, yes?

or (if we need tg_strength more as this week tourney best unit is orc strategist)

Spoiler: 32.1% tg_strength + 2.2% mc_strength = 34.3% total

and if we try to prioritize both strength and health we get weird combination of tg_strength + mc_health, as increasing strength reduce health for the same type of building...

Spoiler: 23.8% tg_strength + 1.4% mc_strength + 3.5% tg_strength + 33.5% mc_health = 62.2% total

TLDR: having less diplomas is better, and researching up to health effects is very questionable as you can't get high chance of health effect along with the strength effect for the same building type.