Sentient Goods are a HUGE disappointment

[DeletedUser1397]

We can't trade them for standard goods.

We can't buy KPs with them.

We can't use them to cater tournaments.

Why aren't these goods any different from the other useless resources like mana and divine seeds? We're up to a total of FIVE resources that serve no purpose between guest races.

There should be some sort of benefit for players that manage their economy around being able to continue producing mana, seeds and sentient goods between guest races. Otherwise, these goods all end up looking like the same boring bowl of plain oatmeal.

Am I the only one that was severely disappointed with sentient goods? I was hoping for a whole new chapter in the economy and trade of Elvenar. Instead, we got "boring decaying useless guest race good #3, #4 and #5".

 

[Lissona]

From your point of view these resources seem to be useless - perhaps because you started playing long time ago, you play a lot, and/or you have a lot of time between guest races (all like me). But what about new players or "the average player", who needs the time between guest races to finish the tech tree/upgrade all buildings etc.? For them it's already hard to get the seeds and mana just in time (space, level of wonders/provinces) - should Inno really introduce a new obstacle for them by making these ressources mandatory in every other aspect of the game? I don't think so...

 

[SoggyShorts]

@Lissona
Indeed, it is very hard to implement a challenge for players that have a 2 year headstart that isn't punitive to other players.
@kerykeion
Keep in mind, we had to wait for ~5% of players to reach the end of chapter 11 before they would release chapter 12, and that means 95% of players don't have this issue

 

[DeletedUser1397]

From your point of view these resources seem to be useless - perhaps because you started playing long time ago, you play a lot, and/or you have a lot of time between guest races (all like me). But what about new players or "the average player", who needs the time between guest races to finish the tech tree/upgrade all buildings etc.? For them it's already hard to get the seeds and mana just in time (space, level of wonders/provinces) - should Inno really introduce a new obstacle for them by making these ressources mandatory in every other aspect of the game? I don't think so...

They're not supposed to be mandatory, it should be a bonus for players that complete Elementals. It also gives me an incentive to keep the T4 manus once I'm done the guest race so I can trade them and help the players that are further behind.

@Lissona
Indeed, it is very hard to implement a challenge for players that have a 2 year headstart that isn't punitive to other players.
@kerykeion
Keep in mind, we had to wait for ~5% of players to reach the end of chapter 11 before they would release chapter 12, and that means 95% of players don't have this issue

I'm not looking for an additional challenge, I'm seeking a better reward for overcoming that challenge.

Just because ~5% of players may be affected by this issue does not make it invalid. Innogames made us wait nearly a year for this guest race. The payoff was NOT worth the wait. Innogames should be designing content that creates hype and keeps longtime players waiting a year for that next guest race.

Instead we just got another version of mana/seeds except we can trade them. How is that exciting? How does that motivate players to reach Elementals? How does that motivate me to stick around for T5 when they make us wait another 9 months?

 

[SoggyShorts]

Innogames should be designing content that creates hype and keeps longtime players waiting a year for that next guest race.

From your first post:

• Using them to trade for standard goods seems very inefficient imo.
• Using them to buy KP seems like nothing different than using another good, but I suppose would give a purpose to seeds between chapters. I'm not sure that it qualifies as " creates hype and keeps longtime players waiting a year for that next guest race."
• Using them to cater in tournaments sounds very expensive, do you want them to add that requirement like the orc catering requirement? Doesn't sound like a reward to me....

Do you have any other suggestions, or specific ideas? I'm not super impresed so far "Something better" only leaves them guessing.

Instead we just got another version of mana/seeds except we can trade them. How is that exciting? How does that motivate players to reach Elementals? How does that motivate me to stick around for T5 when they make us wait another 9 months?

The interesting part about being able to trade them is that you can actually push fellows friends and even strangers through the chapter by offering 4:1 trades, thereby reducing the downtime between chapter releases.

 

[DeletedUser1397]

Being able to use them for KPs would allow us to move through guest races more quickly and level AWs, which I guarantee would be exciting for a lot of players with high standard good costs for KPs.

When I said using them to cater tournaments, I envisioned an alternative cost we could spend to cater. So we'd have three options, catering with standard + orcs, fighting or catering with sentient goods.

I will continue to trade at good rates for the next wave of players, but I will dedicate most of my city to the goods that I actually use for tournaments. If I could trade T4 to said players for T3, they could obtain T4 more quickly and I could actually get something in exchange. If I can't use it for anything, at least let me trade it!

I think I've made some pretty decent suggestions and anyone of these would be a significant step towards making T4 and the subsequent sentient goods something for both older and newer players to get really excited about.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I guess I'm just surprised that you've already reached a point where you are making so much excess sentient goods that you need to find something else to use them on.

 

[palmira]

The problem with sentient goods so far, in my live server, is that nobody produces gum and I have to buy it from the trader at extortianary rates. We are waiting for 2 members of our FS to produce gum but they had just finished halflings and had no mana stock ( or spells) to complete researches and it will be a while before they upgrade the trader. When i look at the market for sentient goods I only see mooonstone. At least my t4 bonus is platinium ...

 

[DeletedUser1397]

I guess I'm just surprised that you've already reached a point where you are making so much excess sentient goods that you need to find something else to use them on.

I'm not, but I will be done one day and unless Innogames does something to make T4 suck less, I'll probably demolish all T4 manufactories between guest races. I expected sentient goods to be more of a permanent fixture in our cities and I'm disappointed.

 

[palmira]

I'm not, but I will be done one day and unless Innogames does something to make T4 suck less, I'll probably demolish all T4 manufactories between guest races. I expected sentient goods to be more of a permanent fixture in our cities and I'm disappointed.

I guess all the ado about t4, that i already profoundly dislike, was to induce us to demolish our t1 factories as that, allied with the increase in negotiation costs of the tourneys, will make tourneys more difficult for the more advanced players giving a chance to the newer players but demotivating the ones in the last chapter.

 

[Lissona]

They're not supposed to be mandatory, it should be a bonus for players that complete Elementals. It also gives me an incentive to keep the T4 manus once I'm done the guest race so I can trade them and help the players that are further behind.

If you like to tear them down and rebuild before the next guest race, thats your decision. But: you can, after your done with the tech tree and the upgrades of your city, also produce a large amount of T4 in advance before the next guest race/addon arrives and then can focus on producing only T5, without the need of mana/seeds for T4.
It's up to you how you behave, but after playing this game nearly for 3 years it's quite obvious what comes next...

 

[SoggyShorts]

If you like to tear them down and rebuild before the next guest race, thats your decision. But: you can, after your done with the tech tree and the upgrades of your city, also produce a large amount of T4 in advance

It only takes about 2 weeks to hit 75% of your decay cap on sentient goods(3 weeks to hit cap), so if you are months away from the next guest race, and don't want to help anyone with sentient trades, nuke and rebuild might be a valid strategy.

 

[DeletedUser1397]

It only takes about 2 weeks to hit 75% of your decay cap on sentient goods(3 weeks to hit cap), so if you are months away from the next guest race, and don't want to help anyone with sentient trades, nuke and rebuild might be a valid strategy.

The fact that nuke and rebuild is the most valid strategy for a new "good" shows how ill-conceived the feature is.

Don't even call them goods at this rate. They're resources, like mana and seeds. Except we can trade them.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Don't even call them goods at this rate. They're resources, like mana and seeds. Except we can trade them.

Right, so they are like mana or seeds, only better.
Especially mana. Since seeds can at least be used to make Sentient Goods, they can effectively be traded to FS members, but mana can't, so perhaps that should be the focus? Unless the ability to upgrade roads with mana between chapters is enough?

 

[DeletedUser1397]

Right, so they are like mana or seeds, only better.
Especially mana. Since seeds can at least be used to make Sentient Goods, they can effectively be traded to FS members, but mana can't, so perhaps that should be the focus? Unless the ability to upgrade roads with mana between chapters is enough?

The only effective difference among mana, seeds and sentient resources is that sentient resources can be traded.

I thought T4 would be better than T3. Turns out sentient resources will all be temporary garbage to clog our cities during guest races.

If this is the limit of sentient resources, the devs have wasted a tremendous amount of time developing a disappointing feature. I think at least making them regular resources and allowing us to trade them would have gone over a lot better than misnaming them as goods.

Sentient RESOURCES are not goods.

 

[SoggyShorts]

allowing us to trade them would have gone over a lot better

Just trade them with one of your fellows, or a neighbor.
Have them post a 1:4 trade for your Sentients, and you post a 1:4 trade for some T3 or whatever you want.
They profit sentients, you profit T3.

Boom, your wish is granted.

 

[DeletedUser1397]

Just trade them with one of your fellows, or a neighbor.
Have them post a 1:4 trade for your Sentients, and you post a 1:4 trade for some T3 or whatever you want.
They profit sentients, you profit T3.

Boom, your wish is granted.

I'm an idiot, brilliant suggestion. Still, I shouldn't have to resort to such tactics. The fact that it's still possible just goes to show that it should be included as a feature.

 

[SoggyShorts]

The fact that it's still possible just goes to show that it should be included as a feature.

Not that I disagree, but what would the range be on cross-tier? Full map like sentients, or discovered + penalty?

 

[DeletedUser1397]

Not that I disagree, but what would the range be on cross-tier? Full map like sentients, or discovered + penalty?

I'd be willing to live with discovered + penalty, but I'm biased because I have a great neighborhood.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I'd be willing to live with discovered + penalty, but I'm biased because I have a great neighborhood.

Yeah that might be a problem- Even with cleared provinces in the mid 300s I have zero Chapter 12 neighbors in any of my cities. Edit:actually 1 city has 1, no one else even has anyone in 10 or 11

• If you could trade with discovered and I couldn't due to sheer luck, that'd be a little unfair for me. Much more so than normal goods since everyone has at least some players that can trade those, and if not they can join any FS. The only way around it for me would be to leave my FS and join an advanced one, leaving behind friends and family--and that's if I could even find such a FS.
• If on the other hand it was worldwide like sentients, that could allow players to effectively remove the trading distance restrictions completely by using Sentients as a middle trading tool (Trade moonstone for gems, then elixir for moonstones, effectively trading gems for elixir over vast distances)