Fellowships Remove tournament ranks add more info to fs tournament tab

[DeletedUser2402]

Remove personal ranking from tournaments and add more information about each person’s participation to the fellowship tab.


Reason:

Personal rankings serves no purpose.

Tournaments are designed for fellowships and right now the only place a score is needed is to see participation within the fellowship. Where it currently resides. Sort by score but it is unnecessary to have a rank as one doesn’t receive an individual reward for scoring better than someone else. It should be about participation as a whole. It should also include all members of a fellowship, including those that don’t participate with a score of 0.

Add how many provinces completed, encounters completed, how many were catered and how many were fought.

If someone is losing a lot of units this could allow someone who excels in battle to help the person and suggest ways to improve their battle performance.

 

[Karvest]

-1
Personal tournament ranking is the only real competitive thing in elvenar that can be changed in a weekly basis, all other ratings take a lot of time to advance in.
And you receive individual reward if you play good enough. Yes, it's just another score 1that you'd like to remove, but tourney part of overall rating tells a lot about player because it can't be pushed or bought by diamonds (at least in direct way).

 

[DeletedUser2402]

Personal rewards are based on completing provinces, not that you did better than someone else. If I have more provinces than another chapter 3 player, it doesn't make me a better player it just says I have more provinces open. Having the ability to see who caters and who battles is more telling of a person and this is only important in fellowships that you are with. Outside rankings like they have now serves no purpose.

 

[DeletedUser2402]

-1
Personal tournament ranking is the only real competitive thing in elvenar that can be changed in a weekly basis, all other ratings take a lot of time to advance in.
And you receive individual reward if you play good enough. Yes, it's just another score 1that you'd like to remove, but tourney part of overall rating tells a lot about player because it can't be pushed or bought by diamonds (at least in direct way).

Participation medals are a better indicator than rank and score.
Score is necessary to achieve the team chests but rank is not.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Score is necessary to achieve the team chests but rank is not.

-1 Sorry, but some players enjoy ranking, and even spend money to get it.

Ranking in the top 100 in a tournament gives only ranking points, so there's really no harm being done to you.
I have many times had FS members that are congratulated on achieving a rank in the tournament, and they are happy and proud to have done so.
I never even check to see how I ranked in a tournament, but I see no good reason to take that joy from them.

 

[DeletedUser2402]

A score does the same thing.

 

[SoggyShorts]

A score does the same thing.

Score= a measurement of your progress(and production capacity)
Rank = a measurement of your progress(and production capacity) compared to others.

If someone has to choose between FS applicants, they can compare the scores of those players and pick the one with higher capacity....which is in effect ranking them with extra steps.

As with all of your other ideas that include your opinion that ranking is useless, I suggest again, take that out and you have a nice little idea that could gain some traction without immediately alienating a portion of players unnecessarily.

Fact: Some players like and care about ranking, and increasing thier score to get ahead of another player is fun for them.
How do you think you make them feel when you say "Ranking is useless"?

 

[DeletedUser2402]

These are MY opinions based on MY experiences in the game and Inno is interested in that. Since you are front and center in these posts, I can only assume that this is more you than others. I'm sorry if I've hurt your feelings. Additionally, this post is about removing the tournament personal ranking outside of an fs and not someone's overall score in deciding to let them in an fs.

 

[SoggyShorts]

These are MY opinions based on MY experiences in the game and Inno is interested in that.

Yes, and I am informing you of other opinions from dozens of other players that I have heard over the years.
When you say "I don't like this, it's useless"
Giving you the information and evidence that others do not feel the same way should be helping you, not making you defencive.

Since you are front and center in these posts, I can only assume that this is more you than others. I'm sorry if I've hurt your feelings.

You are falling into the same trap that many debaters do.
You seem to be assuming that because you are representing only your own personal agenda and biases that others must be as well.
Allow me to clear a couple of things up for you:
1. I do not like the ranking system as it is.
2. I do not even know what my rank is on any given server, and never check it.
3. I have started and posted in various threads that it should be overhauled and more representative of actual performance.
4. I have read literally every single post on the US and Beta forums for well over a year, so while I can't speak for others, I can pass on what I have read.

Additionally, this post is about removing the tournament personal ranking outside of an fs

That ranking can be a place to look for prospective FS members, and is therefore not useless. Also, some players like to see how well they can score compared to others. I've seen many players proudly say which rank they achieved in the tournament. Since every tournament is different, a simple score isn't a very reliable indicator on it's own. Ranking gives context in tournaments.

and not someone's overall score in deciding to let them in an fs.

Ranking in the top 100 in a tournament gives you permanent points for your score, so it is 100% relevant to the discussion, and has an impact on FS selection.

 

[DeletedUser1657]

Remove personal ranking from tournaments and add more information about each person’s participation to the fellowship tab.

Are you talking about removing all tournament ranking or just the number 1-25 in the fellowship tab?

These are MY opinions based on MY experiences in the game and Inno is interested in that.

That may be so but my understanding is that Inno is flooded with thousands of ideas every day. Only a handful are passed on and we often don't know which. Here on the Beta server Marindor has implemented a system where we debate an idea so it gets rounded and polished and is then voted on by the other players. If it meets certain criteria it gets passed on and we know it is forwarded. Those that fail those criteria I do not believe Inno will even see.

So for beta ideas you do need to convince others of the merits of your ideas if you would like Inno to see them. Other forums don't have this system but then they don't usually tell you if they are passed on either.

 

[DeletedUser2402]

Are you talking about removing all tournament ranking or just the number 1-25 in the fellowship tab?

The overall ranking by player. That there is no link to see an overall ranking or score by player. Fellowship adventures are different in that there is an actual competition to win buildings and instants, if you score better than another fellowship, tournaments are not like this.

Under the fellowship tab the score serves as a sort of ranking. These scores are needed for the team chests and should stay.

Other forums don't have this system but then they don't usually tell you if they are passed on either.

This is new for me, in my favorite game with millions and millions of players, we submit ideas and suggestions to the actual developers with an in-game submission form. There is no arguing why something is better or not good. The devs make that choice if it fits into their vision of the game. To say that the developers may never see some suggestions, I hope that is not true and they do check these. Forums have a fairly bad rep for being mainly populated with the loud minority versus the silent majority. This has been a fairly interesting initiation for me though.

 

[Ashrem]

This is new for me, in my favorite game with millions and millions of players, we submit ideas and suggestions to the actual developers with an in-game submission form. There is no arguing why something is better or not good. The devs make that choice if it fits into their vision of the game. To say that the developers may never see some suggestions, I hope that is not true and they do check these. Forums have a fairly bad rep for being mainly populated with the loud minority versus the silent majority. This has been a fairly interesting initiation for me though.

You may hope as you wish. The Elvenar team's chosen method of vetting ideas is for players to discuss among ourselves, then when it seems like the discussion is finished, the moderators will assign a poll to ideas that seem to have generated interest. If those idea polls get more than 20 votes, and the group is generally in favour, then the moderators forward them to the developers.

As far as I know, why they have chosen this particular method of player engagement has not been explained.

As to your idea, I happen to like the few ranking points I've received from placing in the top 100 on my server, and I think it provides useful information to recruiters, so I hope your idea does not get implemented.

 

[DeletedUser2402]

The Elvenar team's chosen method of vetting ideas is for players to discuss among ourselves, then when it seems like the discussion is finished, the moderators will assign a poll to ideas that seem to have generated interest. If those idea polls get more than 20 votes, and the group is generally in favour, then the moderators forward them to the developers

Since this is not the case, and I have seen other suggestions added to the game that weren't in the idea/suggestion section, maybe I'll make a new suggestion that we have an in-game submission form.

I think it provides useful information to recruiters, so I hope your idea does not get implemented.

Checking the top 40 players now in the current tournament, they are all already in a fellowship.

 

[Ashrem]

Since this is not the case, and I have seen other suggestions added to the game that weren't in the idea/suggestion section, maybe I'll make a new suggestion that we have an in-game submission form.

Presumably you checked all 11 forums in all the different languages? That being established, how do you know that player suggestions were added to the game that were not brought up in the forums? I consider it just barely possible that the development team actually already has a long list of things they want to implement, whether or not a player ever suggests them. It's not possible to know what changes in the game were the result of suggestions and what were simply the intended design of the game being implemented.

Checking the top 40 players now in the current tournament, they are all already in a fellowship.

I'm not sure the significance of that remark? Unless you think recruiters never try to convince players to leave their existing fellowship to move to a new one, in which case I assure you you are mistaken since I get at least one or two such invitations after every top-20 finish. Setting that aside, pretty much every time I'm in the top 20, I get at least one message from an outsider asking how the fellowship is, and if we are recruiting.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Since this is not the case, and I have seen other suggestions added to the game that weren't in the idea/suggestion section, maybe I'll make a new suggestion that we have an in-game submission form.

Using other forum members to discuss, find flaws, collaborate, and improve on ideas is free labour for inno, I don't know why they would want to make such a switch.

Checking the top 40 players now in the current tournament, they are all already in a fellowship.

Tournaments are way better if you are in a FS, therefore tournament players are in fellowships. This is also where tournament heavy FS look to recruit.

ninja'd by ashrem, but I'm done so I'm clicking post anyways.

 

[Dony]

you must be in a FS to be able to do a tournaments

 

[DeletedUser2402]

you must be in a FS to be able to do a tournaments

Oh yeah lol

 

[DeletedUser2402]

I'm not sure the significance of that remark? Unless you think recruiters never try to convince players to leave their existing fellowship to move to a new one, in which case I assure you you are mistaken since I get at least one or two such invitations after every top-20 finish. Setting that aside, pretty much every time I'm in the top 20,

I get that recruiters may look for players who are active in tournaments. I'd prefer to be in a fellowship that has more active participants as well. But as it is now, you can't tell the fellowship, and if it's just about the top 20 and leaving out everyone else, then maybe that's even more reason to get rid of it and create an area truly designed for recruiting which includes tournament participation and if there are open spots.

 

[DeletedUser2402]

I had two thoughts there with the submission of ideas, the first one was that one of my ideas was archived without a poll. What is the criteria of that? Bias? that soggy derailed it? That it would cause more problems if the silent ones who read it actually liked it but seeing what I went through wouldn't vote on it anyways as it makes them a target with such loud voices on it and they don't want to argue about it later. Whatever the case, I'm learning here and the only reason I'm even using this forum was from a suggestion from a customer service rep who told me they are interested in my experiences with the game.

Presumably you checked all 11 forums in all the different languages? T

You're right I cannot read in 11 different languages.

 

[Ashrem]

I had two thoughts there with the submission of ideas, the first one was that one of my ideas was archived without a poll. What is the criteria of that? Bias? that soggy derailed it?

I think the idea has to generate enough interest to give them some confidence that 20 people might vote. There are regularly polls that struggle to get 20 votes, even where several people comment. If there are only 1 or two people doing the majority of the talking, and they are solidly at odds, or if there are several, but all but one are opposed, it's unlikely to attract a solid vote, and might prove embarrassing for the person proposing it. They probably don't want to see someone leave because of something like their idea only got 8 votes and 7 were opposed.

There are probably categories of ideas that they actively discourage. Removing features that are bait to diamonds buyers is one of them. A lot of the big diamonds spenders are doing so in pursuit of rank. Taking rank out of the game might be on a "no go" list.

The way the idea is formulated could be one reason. There is a pinned post about how proposals should look, and the more detailed they are, with good, clear description and indications of pros and cons, the more likely they are to make it to a poll.

My own experience was posting the suggestion on the live forums and going through a lot of discussion there, including actively seeking opposition as well as support so I could flesh the idea out before I brought it here.

Key in any public debate is keeping your cool. If you're confident your idea is good for the game, it should be able to withstand detractors. Refute their arguments with logic, not frustration.