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Trader Relics Trader/New Currency

Discussion in 'Archive: Ideas and Suggestions' started by Soleil, Feb 28, 2019.


Are you in favor of this idea?

Poll closed Mar 31, 2019.
  1. Yes

  2. No

  1. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Sep 20, 2016
    Sorry, but I think you are..mis-remembering..
    Full boost requires 500 relics to get 700%.
    I dont think it very likely that you got 250 relics every weeks for 18 straight weeks starting in Chapter1, and the ones from The map aren't making up the difference.
    You can check elvenstats and find low chapter players who have not set their boosts-the website defaults to the average. I would guess that the average is between 36-45 weeks to get full boost, if not much longer
  2. Syonis

    Syonis Well-Known Member

    Oct 18, 2018
    I talked only about T1-T3 Boosted and not 500+ on each good.

    Here are the points from the first 2 Tourneyments for each boosted good:
    Planks:1.350 (Week 2), 3.778 (Week 11)
    Scrolls: 2.430 (Week 4), 2.142 (Week 13)
    Dust: 2.910 (Week 7), 2.472 (Week 16)

    Which makes about 180 relics per tourney+15 as FS reward. So around 200 each which is 400 in total.
    This requires ~ 10-12 provinces which are 80-96 relics which gives in total 500 Relics
  3. Soleil

    Soleil Guest

    It’s a bit hard to tell if you guys are against this or for this. But, before you decide this isn’t a positive thing, think of the alternative…a diamond only relics trader. Those who don’t buy diamonds might be out of luck and will continue to throw away relics and honestly, I might feel taken advantage of because of how much I’m being limited in getting relics.

    In other games, they do have paid and free buildings, which can be tons of fun if they do it right. Because most of those just give you a lot more things to play with. But if you feel forced to spend money to advance your game, well that’s a whole-nother-ball-o-wax.

    I think it would be okay if you had to spend diamonds to upgrade how much you could trade but having to buy a relics trader with diamonds, not so much. A player like Edeba might want to upgrade a relics trader, or even sit out of tournaments and just trade relics if it’s not upgraded. For me I wouldn’t need to upgrade it. I don’t have enough relics to trade not being in a fellowship.

    I’m also not sure if there is an “intended” chapter one could get max boosts. I did it on two chapter 5 kingdoms and in a fellowship that rarely got more than 4-6 chests. I could sit at chapter 2 until I had enough relics. Would I do this? Probably not, I’d be bored to tears.
  4. Lovec Krys

    Lovec Krys Well-Known Member

    Aug 7, 2018
    Well I'm for (or at least not against), I have no problem with allowing people to trade relics.
  5. edeba

    edeba Well-Known Member

    Sep 17, 2017
    14 weeks into a game and my boosts are 601%, 686% and 501%. I will be fully boosted 6 more weeks tops, probably only 3 more weeks...

    36-45 weeks might be average, but 18 weeks is hardly outside the realm of what can be done.

  6. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Sep 20, 2016
    19, 20 maybe, but without pushing or diamonds, that first week of play is near useless Making 18 pretty crazy, and really if 0.01% can or do accomplish it, does it matter to this suggestion?

    @Syonis howdid you get 1350 points after 7 days of playing? How many open map provinces did you have? 5 provinces 6x would be 1350, and would require about 45 total open provinces-- how ? DidDyou clear 30 "very hard" and afford the tournament? Did your FS push you? Diamonds?
    I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm genuinely impressed.

    @Soleil a diamond building that let you get more relics would just be extra steps. You can already buy whatever relics give you for diamonds.

    I'm not sure who is for or against the idea either, but at least two players have shown how incredibly easy it is to get relics already so I'm not sure if that's an endorsement of an idea that wants to make them even easier. If anything it sounds like players may need something to spend excess relics on rather than trading them away to other players. That, or relic costs need to go up?
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
  7. Syonis

    Syonis Well-Known Member

    Oct 18, 2018
    I know that almost no one will be able to do it in 18 or less weeks thats why i gave an aktive player one more rotation and said that active people are able to it in 27 weeks.
    I think the idea is not valuable when you can reach the maximum in 30 weeks of playing, so even before reaching the first guest race. I would prefer instead having additional option to get rid of relics or at least making the recips unavailable that give you relics when you already have 1k or higher.

    I don't know how i did that but elvenstats don't lie^^ The server even startet on thursday so the second week was more like 5 days after server start. I had vacation and the scout run 24/7 but i did not use diamonds in the tourney, for scouting, or ressource generation so it was archived ftp.
    I reached chapter 2 in 3 days so i was in chapter II while doing it.
    SoggyShorts likes this.
  8. Soleil

    Soleil Guest

    @SoggyShorts I know it would be great for people in fellowships to have more stuff to use relics for, but there are already ancient wonders, enchantments, and boosted goods that use them. I can look around at cities and see a lot of people haven’t upgraded their wonders and/or don’t have sparkly cities.

    Upgrading ancient wonders is tedious and no fun. It’s a little better with the new instants if you can get them. If you’re not stopping your tech, and not upgrading your ancient wonders they become obsolete. And people are kind of shooting themselves in the foot by out-leveling them. Or the reverse of over-leveling one ancient wonder and leaving others at low levels.

    If anyone can upgrade wonders fast, it’s fellowships. They just aren’t a priority for most.

    If you’re not using your relics up to upgrade wonders, I don’t see why the devs would add more things to spend relics on. Well they did, they have fellowship members throwing them away in adventures.

    Edit: I also don’t see or rarely see in cities the temporary buildings that you can now make in the magic academy, the ones that enhance your army. Ie Enlightened Light Range buildings. If you’re all doing tournaments this has got to be a big benefit so you’re not losing more units. Losing units is way more costly than catering.

    But what do I know, they seem to hate me with that required accept trades quest.

    Same for asking them to remove the relics production in the magic academy, that’s a big benefit to people who have 1000 relics and aren’t using them up. Btw buying relics… nope they are a temporary item. I would never buy something that is temporary and consumed. This is no different to me than a diamond bought relics trader.

    But this seems to be about time for you guys so carry on!
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 5, 2019
  9. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Sep 20, 2016
    There's quite a few things FS you got very wrong there, I'll try to catch them all:
    1. Relics almost never the bottleneck for upgrading ancient Wonders, honestly no one past chapter 6 even notices the cost in relics to upgrade a Wonder it's just the KP. You can get enough relics to upgrade a Wonder every day no problem, but there is no way that you are getting enough KP to do that. As an example I have enough relics right now to upgrade all of my wonders to max level. But I need a boat 20 years to get the KP to do so.
    2. Sparkling cities are only there if players used one particular spell that is actually only useful in very specific circumstances.
    3. Only one of the four fellowship adventure types requires relics, so maybe a few hundred get toasted per year.
    4. Boosted goods don't actually use any relics so once you gain 500 of them any more that you get have no purpose at this time other than the tiny tiny amount for upgrading wonders.
    5. Many Wonders are based on things like main hall level or number of scouted provinces as well as their own level so they actually can never become obsolete no matter what you do.
    6. it is way way more expensive to cater then to lose troops in the tournament.
    7. the temporary buildings are incredibly powerful and allow you to use crafting for profit (do more in the tournament get more tournament stuff like relics and KP that you then use tocraft more temporary buildings in a never-ending cycle of awesomeness)
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
    Golden Awaken and Loki Blue like this.
  10. Soleil

    Soleil Guest

    First off, I apologize I have no idea how to use the quote things. It’s faster for me to retype. @SoggyShorts this is a response to your post

    1. Most people don’t sit out of tournaments or stop their tech to upgrade wonders. They just keep building up their relics inventory. Using tournaments to get kps to upgrade wonders, keeps building up your relics inventory and not really sure this is what tournaments were intended for. It’s called a relics tournament, not a kp tournament, ooo there is an idea a kp tournament!

    2. If you overbuild your city, there is no need for a sparkly city and if you overbuild your city, you’re going to end up destroying manufactories that cost goods. It would be cool to see a statistic to see how many goods were used up destroying parts of your city.

    3. I know a few people who could use those few 100 toasted relics :D

    4. Relics are used in 3 different types of things already no matter if it stops at 500.

    5. Good to hear, because I’ve read one too many times they are worthless but then see they are sitting at level 2 when they are in chapter 11. Now gets ta leveling yours.

    6. I should clarify this: Catering = Guaranteed win every time. If you fail one encounter, it’s supplies used, supplies to make more units and supplies to switch to catering. It is way more expensive to fail an encounter than to win with catering. It would be cool to see a statistic to see how many units have been lost in tournaments.

    7. Never ending cycle of awesomeness, I like that, but how am I wrong on this one? I said I never see them or rarely see them in cities. (or just can’t see them)
  11. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Sep 20, 2016
    1. The tournament already is both the best way to get relics and KP, and it was designed that way on purpose- the devs said so, that's why they massively increased the KP your FS earns in them.
    2. What do you mean by "over build your city"?
    3.they added the relics cost in that 1 FA specifically after we asked for more to use our abundant relics on as a way to sink them.
    4. How does it not matter if usefulness stops at 500? That means useless 90% of the time
    5. Where did you read that the absolute best buildings in the game are worthless?
    6. Troops are so much cheaper than goods for the tournament that you can afford to lose the occasional battle. Square for square, a catering city will not even accomplish 50% of what the fighting city does in the tournament.
    7. I sent that that off without finishing
    the reasons you do not see them:
    • Those military temp buildings are deleted after the end of the 5 days
    • They are only useful for tournaments involving those troops e.g. the ELR is only good for steel.
    • It requires sheer luck to craft them
    • They are best used in a group (4xELR makes your archers 1-shot kill everything) so players save up.
    • Players haven't figured out how awesome they are.
  12. Soleil

    Soleil Guest

    1. Source please, I’ve never seen the devs says this and did they mean this to encourage other fellowships to try them? You guys are beasts in them, no doubt. I love tournaments, don’t get me wrong, but there needs to be balance somewhere. Or maybe it was even intended for beast fellowships to then have so many that a trader is put in for smaller fs’ and solo folks to balance it out. Never thought of it that way.

    2. Overbuilding, building a lot of one type of manufactories and upgrading, then deleting them later for space. Overbuilding workshops before one needs them in I think it’s the fairies chapter, it’s wasted space when you could be making a sparkly city. I cringe each time I figure out I built something wrong and need to rebuild it. Better to make my mistakes now then when I’ve upgraded something so high and need to re-do it.

    3. I know, it’s unusual to me, that’s it’s acceptable to throw away relics. As an fs I’d demand something else, but it’s probably way too easy to throw away relics than something else.

    4. We’re not talking about usefulness, but what they are used for. Worthless or not to you now at max boost, it still counts as 1 item they are used for. That’s all.

    5. Reading the forums is where I have seen people saying ancient wonders are worthless, being in fellowships I have seen people say they are worthless.

    6. Army units, what is an acceptable amount of losses? 2? 3? per encounter before it’s cheaper to produce goods? Idk I’ve never figured this out. I’d never have a pure catering city maybe 60/40

    7. Gotcha on the awesomeness of those buildings. I have one in my magic academy right now, but alas, I cannot make it. I would trade you one archer building for 10 elixir relics please.
  13. Soleil

    Soleil Guest

    Btw @SoggyShorts I loved your explanation of the temporary military buildings. This is the kind of stuff I bet a lot of people don’t know, including me. Love it, love it, love it.
    SoggyShorts likes this.
  14. Lovec Krys

    Lovec Krys Well-Known Member

    Aug 7, 2018
    @Soleil For advanced city the balance between catering and fighting goes into fighting part. Mainly because while your army production more or less keeps pace with mandatory square size upgrades, your manufactories production don't. And you can't build much more of them (manufactories) because you also gets less new space (only 1 expansion from tech tree per chapter in latest chapters).
    SoggyShorts likes this.
  15. Soleil

    Soleil Guest

    @Lovec Krys I think that makes sense to me, if you look at my city, military stuff is usually what I upgrade last because I have no idea how much to upgrade these now. For now, I base it on how long it takes to make 3 slots of units. 3 hours is what I aim for because of logging in and collecting goods. I have at least one more upgrade on my armory to get it there but need a little bit more culture before I do.

    Previously in tournaments, I tried to finish 3 stars, 4 stars I lost a bit, 5 and 6 stars were more catering because I’m not very good at battling at higher stars (maybe because I didn’t have the temp buildings or my military wonders where they needed to be and not always knowing the best strategy to use in different encounters). I do okay, but really enjoy learning what can be done to make it better.

    Since I found out the temp buildings could be a hot commodity, I’m now trading my archer building for 10 elixir and 5 crystal relics. Any takers?
  16. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Sep 20, 2016
    1. Check the announcement forum for when the change was made. (Either here or US forums, I forget and I'm not combing through on my phone)
    To paraphrase
    This after the change from regular KP to KP instants: "now the KP your FS earns will come in instants, to be used in yours or their wonders"
    "the amount of KP instants in the tournament has been greatly increased"
    Also, just the simple fact that they increased the KP rewards by a out 100% implies that it was on purpose;)
    6. No spreadsheet access at the moment but you can figure it out simply by looking at the total catering costs and then calculating how many hours of production that requires in your city and how many squares that production requires then compare it to how much military you need if 25/50/75/99% die, and squares for that.
    Until you get some decent military wonders and upgraded units I recommend going for more provinces and fewer Stars so you have a numerical advantage over the enemy. Assuming you choose the right troops you should win 99% of fights in the first and second Stars and that's where the KP is anyways :)

    The wondwrs later massively skew in favor of military since there are many more of those compared to just the mountain Halls.
  17. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Sep 20, 2016
    As you progress the goal should increase to equal your AFK time so that the barracks runs 24/7.
    Here's a little somwrhing I made that can help, just click "file" then "make a copy"
  18. Lovec Krys

    Lovec Krys Well-Known Member

    Aug 7, 2018
    Well, that depends on tourney. In harder tournaments you can easily loose even at 1* without having military wonders support.
  19. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Sep 20, 2016
    Really just the scrolls tournament and possibly dust-even then you will still be winning 95% of the time on auto fight in the first star. It requires some very bad luck and crappy terrain to lose with a 15% size advantage and the right troops.
  20. Soleil

    Soleil Guest

    @SoggyShorts and @Lovec Krys this is all really good information, some of it a bit Greek to me. But I think I understand. Interestingly enough, I opened a scrolls encounter for the event, (not sure if it’s exactly the same as a tournament) but it always seems to be a 75% loss for me or more if I used 5 units. (those priests hit everything) I scaled back on this one and use 3 cereberus’ Now, if I can just remember those are the units I use for a lower chapter scrolls encounter, I’ll be golden lmao.

    I do kind of recall that announcement now that you mentioned it. It was a positive change for kp instants as it was a nice push to get people to start working on their wonders versus using the kps for faster research.

    Edit: Remember @SoggyShorts I have blue maps, this means less provinces in a tournament. To keep my score up or do a big push for boosts relics, I had to do at least 3 stars, and the occasional 5-6 stars for boosted relics. Having the goods to do this helped me through these.

    But, before I have to get on and tell myself to stop de-railing my own thread…

    I’m also going to take back what I said about upgrading something like this with diamonds. It should be the same benefit for all. Players like edeba shouldn’t be taken advantage of to spend diamonds because they have a lot more relics than others. I think maybe relics trading could be based on the rarity of items. If it’s a straight relics to relics trade or if it’s a relics trade for a building then it’s based on the buildings value. But idk, you guys are better at this kind of stuff than me.

    In my magic academy yesterday, I had the royal restoration spell. I would trade 45 magic dust relics for 1 blue print please. Any takers?
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 6, 2019
    SoggyShorts likes this.