Discussion Release Notes version 0.31

[DeletedUser]

I can't even do five days straight. Nah, 30 day system if any is as good as is possible. Any less and you have to expect LESS rewards.

Problem solved. That was weird this morning.

 

[DeletedUser519]

I don't want a silly game on the forum
What we need is an actual event that is part of the game created by the devs with real prizes
Like in game content maybe diamonds, non boosted goods, K.P.s, or a special event building, even a chance to win a premium building

 

[DeletedUser651]

Just randomly giving Diamonds does not sound like the best possible way to me personally, because that does not give an incentive to report the bugs you find while playing.

Every player playing on this very buggy beta version of this game is helping Inno whether they report or not. Without players, no one could report anything. You need people playing a game to test the ability of the game to handle players.

Therefore, everyone on beta is a valuable member of the Inno team and hence, all should be rewarded with diamonds. Whether that is all at once or once a day or once a month is up to you. But everyone here deserves something.

 

[DeletedUser594]

Reward players by updating without bugs!!! Gotta get it right first time!
Or don't "update"!!!!!!!!
Whats this number 1 rating for all players? Early Christmas present?
Naaa, has to be another bug

 

[DeletedUser]

I don't know, I feel special. The best thing is that other people are still their rank.
*sings horribly* I am the champion of the world. No time for losers cos I am the champion, of the woooorrlld.

 

[DeletedUser629]

Every player playing on this very buggy beta version of this game is helping Inno whether they report or not. Without players, no one could report anything. You need people playing a game to test the ability of the game to handle players.

Therefore, everyone on beta is a valuable member of the Inno team and hence, all should be rewarded with diamonds. Whether that is all at once or once a day or once a month is up to you. But everyone here deserves something.

I have to disagree. By not reporting bugs, Beta players are the same as players on the live servers. If we would hand out diamonds to players who only play here, we would have to do the same on the live servers. There is also a high possibility that many players will come to Beta for the reward, not for the reason we have this server, which is finding and reporting bugs. If players can't handle bugs on this server, than Beta is not for them. We are looking to give players rewards for actively helping the community by reporting bugs as detailed as possible, this will hopefully stimulate more people to find and report bugs. The more detailed reports we get, the higher the chance the bugs will be fixed before the update goes to the live servers, which will benefit the entire Elvenar community.

 

[DeletedUser503]

There is a whole separate thread about the players ideas for rewarding of diamonds.
Lots of feedback, but no diamonds so far. Why ask us again?

 

[DeletedUser651]

We are looking to give players rewards for actively helping the community by reporting bugs as detailed as possible, this will hopefully stimulate more people to find and report bugs.

This cuts both ways.

What if the players here decide, hmmm....why should I help the Inno community by spending all kinds of time reporting bugs if they don't ever reward us for playing on this forum? Why shouldn't I just leave beta and go to the live servers where they do offer all kinds of rewards for being a player? We don't need to play on beta to play. Inno needs us very badly. Not to mention, not once, ever, have you given anyone even ONE lousy diamond for reporting detailed bug reports all year long.

There is also a high possibility that many players will come to Beta for the reward, not for the reason we have this server, which is finding and reporting bugs.

You all seem so leery of all your free employees. So what if people came here for the free diamonds? What, then you would have a lot more free employees? How could that be bad for you? You can't move diamonds from one world to the next? Can you imagine if you actually had a whole world full of players and you could test this game the way it was meant to be played? You sound as if that is a bad thing? What, you'd rather everyone had empty neighborhoods?

You always act like you don't trust us and you don't want to be taken advantage of by players. Again, just how could any of us take advantage of anything? We are testing your game. In many other games, developers regularly pay their testers because, well, testing is valuable to the company. The more players here, the more bug reports you will get. Isn't that obvious?

If we would hand out diamonds to players who only play here, we would have to do the same on the live servers.

That doesn't follow at all. Beta players have always gotten in game bonuses for playing on beta. Again, the only downside is that you might actually GET beta players. Gee? Either you want beta players or you don't. If you don't want anyone here, then shut this place down and stop stressing yourself out. If you want beta players, then make it worthwhile to play here.

But you are always on the defensive when people mention they are upset or angry with game changes instead of grateful to find out that some change might lose customers for you. When we suggest ways to make this entire beta community happy, you balk at the idea and push back. When we say that customers don't feel appreciated on certain servers (such as the US server) because they see other servers giving stuff away while they get nothing, you get all upset at the players for feeling unhappy. When we say things don't work, your first suggestion is to blame us.

Why are all the mods so defensive all the time? Why not try being on the side of players? Why argue with everyone constantly? How about considering a way to make people HAPPY? Is that so outlandish? Would it be so awful if the top players didn't name their towns things like Inno sucks?

 

[DeletedUser]

First of all I only want to mention I am developer, so understand very well how it looks from many sides, because good developer also have to know how to test own code and application. Still think way test are here - really sux. Why? There is many various reasons. I only point few of them:
- players shouldn't be allowed to play regular game on test servers and thus shouldn't be bound to account here,
- player progress should be reseted with each new update, because beta should cover as many levels and situations as possible. Once player will get low level, sometimes high-end,
- players aren't now encouraged to find bugs or be rewarded for their findings, because they are bound to accounts here and develop them as on regular servers,
- premium currency should have no value on test servers. It should be common as hell to encourage players to testing as many buildings and their combinations as possible, even uncommon or such they wouldn't buy it normal way,
- LISTEN to the community and not say "We know, we try to fix it ASAP". Quality over quantity. If players say something is messed, it is messed. If you shift this mess on real servers - players will be furious. Update 0.30 was such kind of unforgivable crap. Bug over bug bugged by another bug. Most of them were spotted here. Reason why this version was moved to realms is for me personally unthinkable.
- good tester is paid similarly to developer. You have here many good manual testers. Maybe not skilled, but eager and working for free! If you will be ignoring them, they will go to other gamedev. And Elvenar is title not known enough to loose many of them.

How whole process could looks like? When you rollover new update ALL accounts are reset and players start from scratch but with very different amounts of premium currency. For some of them little to test beginners things, for others enough to instantly move to 2 or 5 era. Some even ending tech tree, build a lot of buildings and have a lot of them in backup still. To test lategamers. Reward depending from seriousness of found bug and given only to first founder. List of known bugs publicly accessible to verify if it is known or not (bind to forum account Bugzilla or something like that). Reward can be given by founder to any player on real accounts.

 

[DeletedUser338]

Y'all act like playing on the beta is some kinda full-time job.

We don't need to play on beta to play.

No, you don't. If you don't want to, please, do go away. You play on the beta to get the early updates, if you're not satisfied with that, well, there are many others who are. Really, it's not like you're difficult to replace or anything.

Reward players by updating without bugs!!! Gotta get it right first time!

Brilliant idea. Let's just wait a whole year before the game finally gets another update. A small team of developers isn't gonna find every single bug out there. Also, I'd rather play a game with a couple innocent bugs (seriously? Being number 1 bothers you? Wow) than not get an update every few weeks.

Every player playing on this very buggy beta version of this game is helping Inno whether they report or not.

Therefore, everyone on beta is a valuable member of the Inno team and hence, all should be rewarded with diamonds.

Yeaaaa... Half of them folks don't even visit the forum, let alone report bugs, but oh, how happy the devs should be that they're playing. Because playing this game is suuuuuch a drag. I bet those players just hate every second they're online.

 

[DeletedUser651]

Gee, did you get a stocking full of coal, Lord Jirre? It isn't even Christmas yet and you are very very nasty to all. How about a cup of mead? Cheers mate. This is a game, no need for all the hate.

 

[DeletedUser118]

Well, Goryn has at least a point when he says that players who play here just because they wanna play and don't report any bugs are not of real value for the Beta. I think we all agree that a Beta world is mainly for testing and not playing. Normal playing you can still do on the live servers. If you want to come here and help you are welcome but please do help and add reports and share all your thoughts about this game. Inno needs it and we do too!

So I can also understand him if he has a problem with giving out diamonds to everyone out there. What did they do to deserve them? Nothing. Just playing on a world is no work at all and like mentioned not the meaning of a Beta. Innogames needs testers and bug reporters on here not just players.

On the other side Lord Jirre being number 1 might not be the real problem of the game. Same goes for the red numbers still showing at the messages or the money pop ups. But if you look at the map problems, the game loading problems and the HA problems, even you will agree that these are all bugs which you don't wanna see going to the live servers. They should be dealed with BEFORE the updates are made.

But Innogames still upgraded the servers and so all these pretty serious bugs in my opinion made it to the live servers. And that is just a no go which Inno on the other hand didn't care. Sorry but that's just not ok and should not be done again. Live servers should be kept as bug free as possible cuz else we don't need a Beta at all if most bugs are still being transported over to the live servers.

Oh and if the team is not big enough to take care of all the bugs it might be a good reason to make it bigger.

 

[DeletedUser519]

From my experience with inno- games the release of bugs onto the live servers is nothing new and not exclusive to Elvenar
It was happening before they created Elvenar and will probably continue into the future
The same goes for players playing on beta in other inno games they receive diamonds each time there is an update
That has been going on for years and it isn't some new idea just to irritate the mods in Elvenar beta
I know first hand because I play on beta in FoE
So to all the mods do us players a favor would you
Go to your bosses you know the ones who actually run the game
Ask them why it is it different in Elvenar beta, the reasons you mods give are weak at best
Maybe if beta testers were shown some appreciation more players would report bugs
Then the ones that do might make a better effort to include as much info as they can
I love playing Elvenar and want to help make it a better game but why should I
If you want me to work I should be compensated if not I am just going to play simple as that

 

[DeletedUser651]

What did they do to deserve them?

Every single player here helped created a money making game for Inno. If you don't think so, just try starting a beta version with no one there to play your game. See how far you get. I agree with completely with Andrew.

 

[DeletedUser118]

Then please explain to me how they helped. By simply playing? Does Innogames get a single thing from players who are just being there? Like what? Feedback? No. Bug reports? No. Ideas? No. So what's the point behind it? Making the world look crowded? That might be interesting for a live server but not a test server and that's what this Beta should be used for, testing testing testing.

Of course we can agree on giving something to those who test and give feedback and report bugs and give ideas how to improve the game. But just for ppl playing here and doing nothing? No sorry. That would mean these ppl have the same value for the game than me who reports bugs, gives ideas and feedback. Why should I even bother than doing so if I get the same payment by just doing... well nothing? Who you wanna drag into the game with that? That just won't work.

 

[DeletedUser]

@Katzenprinz Maybe you don't understand this fully, but every player counts. How? Stress tests, performance tests. I was in few games participant of such. What was goal? Gather as many player as possible to break or destabilize whole server. If game is having only few players how gamedev have to know if there are memory leaks, performance is poor and so? Without many testers it is impossible to test this properly. If there is many players constantly playing, server is steadily under stress conditions. Did you seen such actions here? I didn't seen even once. And I played here from scratch few times. How? Don't reach 3-4 era and leave account for month without even one login and game reset it, move you in different place. This is my game style. I test game from beginner side and artificially do something similiar to what I described as "reset per update". That is why I wouldn't be furious if my account is lost or after reset. Tests here in fact are meaningless, because only players paying real cash for gems can do proper tests. So devs created lucrative and ridiculous situation, where testers pay game owners for being testers And because there is not much of them, they cannot test game properly

Other thing.. Some bugs will move to realms even if on test server weren't. Those are translation bugs or placement bugs. During translation some text change to longer than placeholders. Annoying and sometimes confusing. So this is something what should be added - change of language on demand. There is many places to change tests to be more effective. Shame that in fact owners don't treat this server seriously and tests aren't proper. From very long it is used to check what players will accept and what not. This is really something like fight between game owners fixing their crappy ideas (repeatable quests) and players overusing system, because there is no other way to play game pro-active in longer terms. Why? The longer you play, bigger your costs are and rewards are not covering them. More active you are, costs are also bigger. Only overusing system allow you to play without loosing too much. This is something game owners didn't spotted yet. Game is heavily unbalanced in this aspect. Current design is for players doing something 1-2 times per day for 5-10 minutes. If you are playing more often - you are in troubles. Game owners have no idea what to do if someone progress too fast. Forcing players to develop for example Ancient Wonders was something I could call desperation. They are waste of time and resources, especially elvish/human AW. They can be tested here, on test server to correct their statistics. But on live servers they currently sux so heavily, they are beating even black holes For example Lantern can be replaced with combination of one bigger culture building + Greater Squad tech This tells everything about how they are weak after all effort made to develop them

And I can write about many mistakes in architecture of this game, bad ideas, forcing players to do things they don't want to, crappy statistics/parameters, unbalanced changes between races, no view of this game in later perspective, limiting players to game owners vision and punishing players for their own playing style. I can really write a lot of constructive criticism, but from what I see, there is no proper feedback from them. And from Inno server I play normally I know there will be even worse. Why? Because if liked and respected game mods resign not only from functions but are leaving game entirely, means always one thing - game owners will be forcing changes mods don't agree with. And only idiots will be giving their heads for someone else mistakes.

 

[DeletedUser651]

Just hitting the word "like" isn't nearly enough. I love every word thekandor wrote. Those are exactly the reasons why every player on beta is important. You simply cannot test a game unless you have people to test it. Now, wouldn't it be great if they actually listened to us?

 

[DeletedUser]

I have to agree on both sides (except Lord Jirre, sorry fella).
We don't need to play here, but we want to. Rewards aren't necessary, but as our wise Thekandor explained this server needs to be filled. A funny joke actually now I think of it.
What is the average time of the past months that moderators needed to be online on the forum?
Can't be too much because this place is close to deserted, only old players come here.
Can I have a percentage of the good ideas we gave that are implemented? If I am correctly remembering there were a lot of ideas about 20 pages full.
As stupid as I maybe at spotting bugs I have always been active on the forum and when I spotted something (finally) I mentioned it, the players who take a picture of everything out of the ordinary, who memorize how they left the game, do they even get a thank you?

It is true, you only need to go twice, maybe thrice online for 5-10 minutes and you are all okay. Serious, I don't even have to fight and I steadily progress. I don't expand my city because of the costs. What use is it to use my precious space?
Do I need more goods? With a production of 3600 planks, 2000 silk, and 1300 magic dust a day I am doing fine. Coins? No problem with only 20 houses of level 15 and a couple of 9 I get enough coin to have about half of my capacity filled. I don't need coins, because fighting and trading is a waste.
Yes, I know I am not ambitious. This is because it isn't worth my time to worry about a stupid thing like whether I need to build a house or build a squad of troops.
Even technology, the new era should excite me, make me jump and finish it as soon as possible. Not, why?
We get buildings that are actually really ugly. Sure a few new features huzzah.
The troops don't make me laugh, two troop upgrades and some squad upgrades. How about one or two units that fit with the race and can be traded for the two next race of people that enters our city.
I can already see how Orcs may be, picture this. An orcish settlements on the outset surrounded by bones. Roads that are paved with bones, your beautiful houses turn from grand architecture to guess what.
Hide held up with bones. That's how I see the dwarven kingdom. Sure I haven't progressed to the dwarven era, but I have neighbors who did. I think its a disgrace both to human/elf and dwarf. I started excited, sure Dwarves how can you do something wrong with those stout brawlers who make art out of stone and metal. Well you did. So did a writer I recently read.
Elves did create beautiful things, not nature as I expectued, but out of STONE and METAL. You wasted it, look at the castle to the left if you don't believe me. Humans have never been able to create something beautiful. The only pretty thing is a lvl 15 residence and the dragon fountain and the smaller culture buildings (1x1, 2x1, 1x2, 3x1, 1x3).

It is part of the point I am making.
You have created a game, two races fine. No real fighting fine. Wild enemies with which you lose all your troops and need a barracks 24/7, fine. Have guest races in Elvenar, fine. Are they next to useless, fine.
What was your idea to inactive players? Delete them all?
Thanks fellas now when I want to help I don't receive any money.
What was my point?
I think I lost it. So here is a short message.
I give you a honest opinion born out of the weariness I have of this game. So far thekandor has said the most bleeding useful thing in the whole forum since it was public.
Ban me, punish me whatever you want, I don't care I said what I said and not a thing you do or say will make me think better of the game or the forum.

 

[DeletedUser]

@Drialik Yes... We don't need to play. But Inno need to have testers. And they know that, but act like people here were close to nothing. In flash games this is funny. Why? This is something only devs and testers knows obviously. Flash as technology is hardly impossible to be tested automatically. Tests can be only done on code level, which can only show bugs in logic of application, but not in gameplay. And in very limited form with tools like Selenium. That is why a lot of things can be tested during manual tests only. Writing tests as "happy paths" (way people should use new functionality) can find only broken code. Cannot find however bad interactions between new and old things. And what most important... Only testers can do things devs and architects didn't predicted.

Yes... Game is deserted. Not only here. Realms also. I don't know even one where everything is fine. Instead of opening new realms, old should be modified and people should be moved to places after removed users. From deserts people should be thrown into dense area. Trade and Neighbourhood help can be intensified this way. Mechanisms are easy, implementations also. Only will is needed. And there is lack of it. Owners have their own vision of game. They pay for development, but they forgot one important thing: Game is nothing without players. And from many updates we see mostly fight between owners and players.

Ancient Wonders was small step which clearly shows this. Way they were designed (laughable bonuses compared to requirements) was nothing... I could accepted them as something extra... But move which made them obligatory really made me furious. Because showed that owners will not stop themselves to force players to their vision of game. Same thing was with repeatable quests. They know them were implemented badly. But instead say that clearly and work with players to change them in manner that will be accepted by all sides, they change them step by step, because after riots here, they know radical change is impossible to shift.

One of other mistakes was creating test server as another realm, but with earlier access to updates. This shouldn't happens. This server have to be for tests, not regular game. If regular game is performed, people stuck to their cities and any change affecting their game style is treated as attack on them. This is causing anger, fury and resist. If from very beginning test server was really test server and people were informed that reset may occur any moment, their city layout may be changed any moment, and of course many things may happens, this could end differently than is now.

Maybe I created forum account this weekend, but play on test server for few months and know what grinds our gears I don't blame developers. They simply do what they have in their schedule. But what should be in backlog is depending from owners. From 2-3 updates their ideas are pushing line which shouldn't be even touched. And they are crossing it. This can end with hard landing for whole project, not only one or two servers. Players read this forum, even if not play here. Just to know what new will be introduced. If they see this server with red alert and furious players, they know it is reaaaaaaaly bad. And they move this message to non-test servers: "Brace yourself! Really bad changes are coming!", and this in long term end with more and more deserted servers.

 

[Muf-Muf]

Just to let you know: we have read the comments made above and will certainly consider them, as well as the ideas as posted in the thread on this subject that was created a while back in the Ideas and Suggestions forum. We are currently exploring our options internally. As nothing is set in stone at this moment, we can't share further details just yet.