Point/Population system

[DeletedUser]

If we could get a CLEAR clarification on how the upper tier people are there, i.e., is it population, number of provinces cleared, etc. Per example, I know I have more population than many (at one time I owned over 50 Fountains of Youth (730 Pop./700 culture), yet there were people waaay ahead of me with less housing and population. I deleted all 50 Fountains (at 920 Diamonds each) and replaced them with nothing but housing almost all at level 17 (max for now) with about 1/4th at level 16, I get much more population per square, still barely in the top 20. What am I missing? I have over 200 provinces, my relics are boosted very well, I concentrate only on relic boosted products, I'm just at a loss and want to quit, since I have no way of knowing how to improve, i.e., where are the tables about how much each level gives you in point systems? I want to improve, TELL ME HOW. P-L-E-A-S-E.

 

[DeletedUser1075]

Hi Randy,

I went hunting in the wiki a few months ago... here's the URL if you want to check it out: https://beta.wiki.elvenar.com/index.php?title=Ranking. But I'll also do a quick summary.

Points are accumulated in two ways:

1. Working population + used culture. You don't get points for any extra culture or spare population, but every time you build something you get to add the population required plus the culture required to get the total points that will impact your ranking. This means that armories and tier 3 manufactories are very helpful. Tier 1 and 2 manufactories and workshops are also good. Houses have tiny impact but they do add up and you need the population for all the other buildings anyway.

2. Encounters within Provinces. You get points based on distance, per each encounter. So if you're in a province that is 11 tiles out from your city, then you get 11 points per encounter within the province. Since each province has 8 encounters, you could get 88 points from that one province. They add up over time.

So basically, you want to balance your housing with those high-point buildings so that you have approximately zero extra population. Don't overdo the cultural either, though extra culture is helpful to step up the manufactory output, so there's a balancing act there too. And if you want to spend diamonds, focus on those dragons since they give you more culture per space which frees up space for more houses/armories/etc. I'm convinced that a non-diamond spender will not ever get to #1 ranking because the cultural buildings available without diamonds are too large compared to those available with - which impacts avail space for the stuff that does improve rankings.

Good luck!

 

[DeletedUser1075]

I forgot to add... if you hover your mouse over the population counter in the bar across the top of your screen, you'll see a small popup window that gives you the values for "total population", "working", and "available". If you hover your mouse over the culture counter in that bar, you'll see a small popup window that gives you values for "total culture", "required", and "available". Add the values from "working" (under population) and "required" (under culture) and you have the part of your score that doesn't come from the encounters.

 

[DeletedUser778]

I deleted all 50 Fountains (at 920 Diamonds each) and replaced them with nothing but housing almost all at level 17

I think that was not the best move

750 culture and 700 population are 1450 possible score points, if you can use them to 100% on 12 squares,
So 1450/12 = 120,833 "score resources" per square.

A Lvl 17 house gives 610 pop and costs 217 culture on 10 squares

So 610/10 = 61 "score resources" and 217/10 = 21,7 score per square for a total of 61+21,7= 82,7 possible score per square.

Fountains of Youth and Goddesses of Fertility are still stronger then non diamond culture + houses.

Edit: And if you only really care about points: Wonders that don't give good amounts of culture or population are bad for the ranking because they consume precious space, but give no scorepoints. (At least if they didn't added something there that doesn't stand in the wiki atm)

 

[DeletedUser283]

I second this : I checked my score :
-before building an AW
-after launching the build
-after build was complete
no score points added whatsoever

 

[DeletedUser778]

I think "over 200 provinces" are not many more then 200?
If so I think it is maybe a little low. I don't know when you started playing, but I was quite late with early march, but I have already 246 provinces done (and I'm not going in circles so I already had a lot 60-72h provinces in ring 13 and 14 and had some times not really careing about my scout, i regret now),
so I guess the Top players will have even more and maybe even much more if they buy scouting time with diamonds to buy KPs, score and expansions inderectly from the provinces (would be smarter then buying KPs/expensions directly I think, but I have no clue how's it going up there with players owning diamond mines )
So if I "only" calculate 50 more provinces in ring 10 it would make a difference of 50 x 10 x 8 = 4000 Score points , but like I said I would think some of the top players should have more, like maybe 300-350?! provinces total... dunno, but I would like to know

 

[DeletedUser]

Thank you all for your answers. I get it now, and most things I've been seeing make much more sense. I appreciate all your answers!

 

[DeletedUser]

I've taken a look at your city and my recommendations are:

- Place roads and buildings strategically, roads on the outer most squars of your building area is a sign that you can still improve in this area.
- For a higher ranking/strategic placing of buildings, it can be interesting to place factories of goods where you don't have a bonus in production. Try to keep this to a minimum.
- Level 17 Tier 1 goods factories give more points / square than other factories, if you focus more on these you may get more points in ranking.
- It can sometimes be useful to place level 17 houses in areas where they are not connected to your City Hall and use the space your normally use for roads for something else. The houses won't produce coins, but you still get the population from them.

There's also a different tactic you can consider, especially if you have a workers hut level 4 or 5, if you are interested in a higher ranking (with Ancient Wonders included):

1) Build the Mountain Halls Wonder only (not the other 3)
2) Level up Mountain Halls to level 10 (for extra population)
3) Setup your city so you can make the most use of your population. Use the free room you have saved for the remaining wonders as non-diamond culture buildings (see example screenshot, where room has been made for the Spire (6x4) and the Sanctuary (5x5)).
4) After you have maxed out all buildings, remove the non-diamond culture buildings reserved for wonders and build the remaining wonders.

You will have -culture because of this, but wonders don't require culture to be built. And remember that with the next race update this strategy will have to adapt and may no longer be valid, so this is only temporary.

In this screenshot I still have 4 things to upgrade, the Mountain Halls wonder included. With this finished I will have 78 population left. After that I will remove the small culture buildings and a Temple of the Holy Fire (-3147 culture) and replace them with 2 Ancient Wonders. I will end up with 3 Ancient Wonders (I don't like the Dwarven Bulwark), no diamond culture buildings and +/- 102.000 points (+/- 14.500 from Provinces). With the right diamond culture buildings and city layout you can increase that number even more.

 

[DeletedUser283]

in general, I agree with @Boko about the "last sections of road"
now I have a very nice counterexample
in my city, my level 17 houses are lined along a road that goes right to left, so they touch the road on their smaller side (2 squares)
on the last house, I should remove the last road square and replace it with something else, but :
- either I have to place some building there (it is feasible), but I have to study this further to find how to arrange it....
- or I have to place some decoration, but ! this deco has to be 1 square, and the best 1 square deco available brings 36 culture (garden fairy) while the dwarven road there brings 49

I think it will stay this way for a while ...

 

[DeletedUser]

See screenshot for how I fixed that problem Philplessis.

 

[DeletedUser283]

this is indeed how I plan to fix it someday, but I I have to think about it some more

 

[Veeb]

I'm gutted - I placed 3 wonders and have lost over 100 ranking points- Totally pointless building them as most are pretty useless and as for the waste of space the Magic workshop takes up. 4 buildings that have ruined my rank when they should have made it shoot up !!

 

[DeletedUser629]

I'm gutted - I placed 3 wonders and have lost over 100 ranking points- Totally pointless building them as most are pretty useless and as for the waste of space the Magic workshop takes up. 4 buildings that have ruined my rank when they should have made it shoot up !!

None of those buildings use population or culture to build and upgrade, so you won't get ranking points for them. You also won't lose ranking points because the only way to do that, is by destroying something that gave you points, like a workshop or a factory.

 

[DeletedUser1075]

Actually, at level 10 the Martial Monastery (elves-- I forget the name for the human equivalent) gives more culture per square than any other non-diamond culture building. So if you're not spending diamonds, it's worth while. The Mountain Halls at level 10 similarly gives more population per square than you can get with housing on the elvish side at least, making that worthwhile if you're not using diamonds. The additional bonus for each is a perk. It is true that all four take up space, but at least those two contribute to the other buildings you can build that do help your rank.

 

[Veeb]

I have a total of 3 shards for mountain halls, fighting is a nightmare. Its a big joke getting the shards when you'd already got to the end of the game before they showed up

 

[DeletedUser1075]

I don't get many useful shards from the provinces. I get them from donating kp to my fellowship's various ancient wonders. If you are in the top few (1-5, depending on the level of the wonder), you get a shard or even two. By the time my martial monastery had reached level 5, I already had 15 shards waiting for the upgrade. I'm not doing as well for Mountain Halls, but I'm getting there.

 

[Veeb]

None of those buildings use population or culture to build and upgrade, so you won't get ranking points for them. You also won't lose ranking points because the only way to do that, is by destroying something that gave you points, like a workshop or a factory.

Well what I mean is I built all these expecting to go up in ranking and it didn't I lost over 100 rank places when I guess the space used by them would have been better served by buildings that produce points.
I have gone back up 10 rank points over the last few days as I have built 2 workshops and another gems building. I don't spend diamonds so I guess this is where my ranking will suffer as I'm not going to buy any just to climb the ranks. It is very disappointing...........

 

[Veeb]

I've taken a look at your city and my recommendations are:

- Place roads and buildings strategically, roads on the outer most squars of your building area is a sign that you can still improve in this area.
- For a higher ranking/strategic placing of buildings, it can be interesting to place factories of goods where you don't have a bonus in production. Try to keep this to a minimum.
- Level 17 Tier 1 goods factories give more points / square than other factories, if you focus more on these you may get more points in ranking.
- It can sometimes be useful to place level 17 houses in areas where they are not connected to your City Hall and use the space your normally use for roads for something else. The houses won't produce coins, but you still get the population from them.

There's also a different tactic you can consider, especially if you have a workers hut level 4 or 5, if you are interested in a higher ranking (with Ancient Wonders included):

1) Build the Mountain Halls Wonder only (not the other 3)
2) Level up Mountain Halls to level 10 (for extra population)
3) Setup your city so you can make the most use of your population. Use the free room you have saved for the remaining wonders as non-diamond culture buildings (see example screenshot, where room has been made for the Spire (6x4) and the Sanctuary (5x5)).
4) After you have maxed out all buildings, remove the non-diamond culture buildings reserved for wonders and build the remaining wonders.

You will have -culture because of this, but wonders don't require culture to be built. And remember that with the next race update this strategy will have to adapt and may no longer be valid, so this is only temporary.

In this screenshot I still have 4 things to upgrade, the Mountain Halls wonder included. With this finished I will have 78 population left. After that I will remove the small culture buildings and a Temple of the Holy Fire (-3147 culture) and replace them with 2 Ancient Wonders. I will end up with 3 Ancient Wonders (I don't like the Dwarven Bulwark), no diamond culture buildings and +/- 102.000 points (+/- 14.500 from Provinces). With the right diamond culture buildings and city layout you can increase that number even more.

Well we can't really compete with you diamond players as you will have bought all the diamond expansions and have the pick of the buildings, if you have 9100 diamonds I dread to think how much you've spent on a game?

 

[DeletedUser1231]

Hello veeb

It is possible to rise in the ranking without diamonds.
I am at present on the place 128 in the general ranking and I consider good to arrive in 75 first ones in 2 months while I never have to spend single one diamonds in the game.

On the other hand I gain extension with the conquered provinces, I am at present 251 there.

With the patience and the perseverance we can rise in the ranking without diamonds.

 

[DeletedUser651]

I am playing this game without buying any diamonds and I can report that you can rise in the rankings benroq, but the time needed to get the rest of expansions is stupid. I have 246 provinces and I now have 2 day plus scouting times. I need 13 more provinces to get all the space the top players have. It takes 8 or 9 provinces to get one expansion. Figuring that scouting times will increase to 3 days soon and I can't get on to set a scout lots of times because it happens while I am sleeping, that is roughly 27 days per province....round that to a month. To get all the rest of my provinces will take over a YEAR!!!

On the US server, which I started from day 1, I was in the top 13 in the rankings until this latest round where they added more space. Suddenly, all the payers are racing past me. I can't do a thing about it because I don't have the space they have. I just watch my rank drop day after day. I am now ranked 52. If new space is added, I will have no chance to ever be on top again. The time is just too long now. I understand they need paying players.