Please explain the combat system

[DeletedUser506]

So I decide to kill a bunch of bandits (which somehow have access to the gates of Hell so they spawned a few Cerberus... okay) and the first engagement was a pack of around 30-ish Orcs that hit my axe barbarian for 20 units dead. I retaliated and brought his own units low, so he was down to one orc. Thinking that he's basically harmless now, I turn to the cerberus right next to my other axemen and took out half the squad. When the turn rolled over, that one orc managed to kill FIFTEEN of my barbarians in one swing. Compare that to about 30 of them killing 20 beforehand.

Now, that was one time. When you consider that this happened to me at least ten times when the numbers make absolutely no sense, I really wonder how the combat system even works. It makes no logical sense. It makes as much sense as magic would exist in real life.

So, higher ups who played the game for a month now, maybe you know what the deal is? Or is it just a ridiculous bug?

 

[DeletedUser126]

So I decide to kill a bunch of bandits (which somehow have access to the gates of Hell so they spawned a few Cerberus... okay) and the first engagement was a pack of around 30-ish Orcs that hit my axe barbarian for 20 units dead. I retaliated and brought his own units low, so he was down to one orc. Thinking that he's basically harmless now, I turn to the cerberus right next to my other axemen and took out half the squad. When the turn rolled over, that one orc managed to kill FIFTEEN of my barbarians in one swing. Compare that to about 30 of them killing 20 beforehand.

Now, that was one time. When you consider that this happened to me at least ten times when the numbers make absolutely no sense, I really wonder how the combat system even works. It makes no logical sense. It makes as much sense as magic would exist in real life.

So, higher ups who played the game for a month now, maybe you know what the deal is? Or is it just a ridiculous bug?

Its illogical combat system that they try to sell as working as intended, even if all of us say it dont make any sense. I recommend checking the combat improvements topic and supporting it if you want this changed

PS: The higher you go the worse it gets. At my level I almost dont fight at all, only negotiate. Faster, easier and more fun. Combat system right now needs reworking and enhancing that will add core features that you would expect in turn based combat strategy game this days. This would not even be acceptable 15 years ago

 

[DeletedUser]

So I decide to kill a bunch of bandits (which somehow have access to the gates of Hell so they spawned a few Cerberus... okay) and the first engagement was a pack of around 30-ish Orcs that hit my axe barbarian for 20 units dead. I retaliated and brought his own units low, so he was down to one orc. Thinking that he's basically harmless now, I turn to the cerberus right next to my other axemen and took out half the squad. When the turn rolled over, that one orc managed to kill FIFTEEN of my barbarians in one swing. Compare that to about 30 of them killing 20 beforehand.

Now, that was one time. When you consider that this happened to me at least ten times when the numbers make absolutely no sense, I really wonder how the combat system even works. It makes no logical sense. It makes as much sense as magic would exist in real life.

So, higher ups who played the game for a month now, maybe you know what the deal is? Or is it just a ridiculous bug?

When you kill some units from a squad, all health that those units were providing is 100% gone. BUT, the damage value that thety were providing only decreases by a certain %. The way this works is when a squad is reduced to 1 single member, it still has 50% of his original damage value. I had written a post about it, forgot where.

It's hard, but I wouldn't say it's broken. I can deal with provinces in my 5th circle, and had success fighting sectors in some provinces from my 6th circle. For my 7th circle, negotiation costs include 3rd tier goods, so I assume I will need mages + upgraded archers + at least 2 more squad upgrades to be able to deal with those.

 

[DeletedUser126]

When you kill some units from a squad, all health that those units were providing is 100% gone. BUT, the damage value that thety were providing only decreases by a certain %. The way this works is when a squad is reduced to 1 single member, it still has 50% of his original damage value. I had written a post about it, forgot where.

It's hard, but I wouldn't say it's broken. I can deal with provinces in my 5th circle, and had success fighting sectors in some provinces from my 6th circle. For my 7th circle, negotiation costs include 3rd tier goods, so I assume I will need mages + upgraded archers + at least 2 more squad upgrades to be able to deal with those.

Mine are all upgraded, they are useless Esp priests they do no dmg and cant even kill 1 stack before enemy gets to them

Only ones good are Dogs and Paladins

 

[DeletedUser506]

How can you sell off a broken system as "working as intended?" It's simply broken. It's not even challenging, but flat out unfair and frustrating when you need to be scared of one guy killing fifteen of your units. I would really hate to compare the two games again, but FoE has a very good combat system/engine, except that this game is even more of a HoMM-inspired system than FoE's is, almost copying the thing. They need to tweak the damage problems.

Also, why is it when a small unit attacks my large unit stacks, and they retaliate with only four casualties instead of the usual 20+ deaths? I guess it's another feature of the "perfectly planned" combat system.

 

[DeletedUser]

Its illogical combat system that they try to sell as working as intended, even if all of us say it dont make any sense ... The higher you go the worse it gets. At my level I almost dont fight at all, only negotiate. Faster, easier and more fun...

How can you sell off a broken system as "working as intended?" It's simply broken. It's not even challenging ... I guess it's another feature of the "perfectly planned" combat system.

I'm experiencing the same.

Having 'discovered' about 40 neighbors, it doesn't make any more sense to fight - for the one hand even 'Paladins' are too weak to be used as 'offered victim', for the other hand, (as already mentioned various times by various players) 'attacks' often don't happen, so you lose the unit without hurting the 'enemy'.

So it's like Khebeln says: Already at low levels it doesn't make any sense at all to fight, only negotiate. 'Faster, easier' - yes, 'more fun' could be put in doubt...

PS: please don't mention that here something could be boring; there are many guys out here who will pounce on you and tear you in the air, because dressing/undressing & combing Barbie and Ken is, what (this/some) people love, like and want ... working combat systems, PvP, guilds etc. evidently are not the most desired/wanted features.

 

[DeletedUser205]

I've discovered over 40 neighbors yet too and I'm still finding fun in fighting.
Although I don't like some illogically features (mostly that the power of the enemy-squads doesn't get down in parallel to the killed members of the squad).
The more powerful the enemies get, the less you can fight just out of your feelings.
And sometimes it is the better choice to negotiate, if you can estimate, that you will have no realistic chance to win.
But often you can win and than (for me) it is the better price for progress than spend goods which are difficult or expensive to get (what depends on your neighbors and the goods they put on market).

 

[DeletedUser126]

Im at 92 Explored neighbours now. And with the fights not changing after each exploration there are A LOT of un winnable fights that can only be negotiated now whether you like it or not. This one is actually the easy one, because it have ranged units.

Example: My 108 Squad Full of Tier 2 units vs 661 of Enemy units. Rigggght.... not happening

Those are the kind of fights you can expect

 

[DeletedUser678]

How do I use my Elven armies? I have looked everywhere but cannot find any way to use the archers and dancers. Is there a tutorial somewhere?

 

[DeletedUser]

@Pnohv: You should have a look at the Encounters Guide.

 

[DeletedUser118]

https://beta.wiki.elvenar.com/index.php?title=Battle

https://beta.wiki.elvenar.com/index.php?title=World_Map

Check this out. It might explain some things.

 

[DeletedUser]

How can you sell off a broken system as "working as intended?

The fact that you don't like the current system doesn't make it a 'broken' system. Also, the very same mechanic that makes you fear a 1-member enemy squad works the other way too: any of your squads being down to only 1 member still has a considerable damage output, which you can take advantage of in combat. I agree it's counterintuitive, but it doesn't make it less valid or fun. Anyway, I think it shoild be explained to newcomers, because otherwise it may create a lot of frustration when you are not able to understand how it works; which shouldn't be uncommon, being so counterintuitive.

I think the only one of us here well enough into the game as to make a realistic judgement is Khebeln. And while I appreciate his input, I'd like to hear more opinions from 'high-advanced' players, or at least being able to judge for myself once I get there, assuming it remains the same by then.

 

[DeletedUser126]

The fact that you don't like the current system doesn't make it a 'broken' system. Also, the very same mechanic that makes you fear a 1-member enemy squad works the other way too: any of your squads being down to only 1 member still has a considerable damage output, which you can take advantage of in combat. I agree it's counterintuitive, but it doesn't make it less valid or fun. Anyway, I think it shoild be explained to newcomers, because otherwise it may create a lot of frustration when you are not able to understand how it works; which shouldn't be uncommon, being so counterintuitive.

I think the only one of us here well enough into the game as to make a realistic judgement is Khebeln. And while I appreciate his input, I'd like to hear more opinions from 'high-advanced' players, or at least being able to judge for myself once I get there, assuming it remains the same by then.

Problem is the only other high lv active player on the forums is Tinker

And yeah you will see soon enough, and cry

I dont really even care for losses you see i have thousands of units, problem is fights are unwinable no mater how many units i throw at them

 

[DeletedUser]

Having 'discovered' about 40 neighbors, it doesn't make any more sense to fight .

I have discovered 50-55 neighbors (not sure how many exactly) and I can still conquer sectors by fighting. Granted, I lose something around 100-200 units on each fight (I count 1 Paladin as 6 units), and there's some sectors that I just buy with goods because I don't think I can conquer them, or because I stimate massive losses. So I can disprove your quoted statement based on my experience.

I understand you may not like the combat system. And I would also like it to be enhanced in some way, with more variety and mechanics. But it definitely 'works', and I would very much advise any player to fight for most of his sectors, unless he can't devote that kind of time to the game, or finds it plain boring.

 

[DeletedUser205]

If there are posts from players with around 40 neighbors who explain it as unpossible to win fights for this level -
but I win fights every day in the same level ...
why not lean back and wait what will happen special for me and my experience I get till I have 92 neighbors?
I'm more the relaxed player and believe most what I see myself ;-)
(b.t.w. today I had my second total loss in this game but I'm quite shure, it was not my best try)

 

[DeletedUser118]

I don't think its really necessary to compare the amount of neighbors you've discovered as it doesn't really lead us anywhere. You can see very early in the game that this battle system has some strange results. The important thing is, if its really wanted to have battles where one enemy can kill 20 of your men. I personally don't think we need that. The fight should be fair and for that we need battles where it should definitely matter if your group is 20 men or 200, not what it was at the beginning. This problems needs to be fixed in my opinion.

 

[DeletedUser205]

it is not to compare amount of neighbors (I'm not interessted in that score-thing). the amount of neighbors points to the number of rings you discovered and that points to the power of enemies you get to face.
Sometimes it makes sense to wait, till your squad-size is upgraded and/or upgraded army, before you fight overwelming encounters (depends on how far away the next upgrades are in your research and probably in unpatience), instead of negotiating.
To discuss fairness in fights is interessting -
shure I'm not against less powerful enemies, if the majority thinks, that is a matter of fairness

 

[DeletedUser]

Sometimes it makes sense to wait, till your squad-size is upgraded and/or upgraded army ...

Yes you are right.

Once updated your barracks or once researched a bigger squad-size, you can fight and win then about 2 two battles before running otherwise in a situation like Khebeln shows in his screen-shot.

Please don't forget that the majority of players of this better don't invest in diamonds, so 'upgrading barracks 'or 'finish research a bigger squad-size', is something that doesn't happen every three minutes but every three weeks.

 

[DeletedUser205]

yes I know that Extranjero and you mark that often.
therefore I wrote ... depends on ... unpatience ...
onlinegames like this one are longtimegames, aren't they?
(I'm working through tier 3 in these days and my barracks, squad-sizes etc are on accordingly levels)

 

[DeletedUser126]

Yes and no, actually people that will play slow might get in to those issue faster than players doing it fast because they will be able to get more resources easier to negotiate higher fights unlike people that paved the way.

In any case thats not the point, the real issue is lack of depth in combat, and all those little small advantages you think you might get by right positioning are not worth anything if everything can 1 shot your whole squad


Edit by AmySteele: Removed unsuitable language