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Discussion Evolution of Phoenix

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Marindor, Apr 1, 2019.

  1. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    Same here. Maybe we'll get enough someday for more than 1, till then though 2/3 stay in the bag.
    In theory, you should see 1 per food recipe per week, so it's possible to use it in every tournament on your firechicken... at least that's what I'm hoping. If not I'll skip steel, gems, and marble since I have ELR/MMM for those.

    EDIT: I feel like the aurite and storm are both "ok" and would be great together- there's obvious synergy between increased production and MM spells, but food and evos are just too rare for now me to go for both.
     
  2. edeba

    edeba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    Well, I put out the storm just to have a look at it. I had already decided with the competition to make MM with CC this one comes with a serious opportunity cost, so it just didn't sound very good or all that well thought out.

    I was utterly unimpressed with it. So, I used a pet food just to see what it did, and that 55% means that MM will be 55% instead of 50%, not a 55% increase of some kind and then the pet food only lasts 3.5 hours. This thing is really bad.

    Think about it, it takes 2 CC to make a pet food, which has an opportunity cost of the time it would take to make 1.5 MM. (My MA is level 5 so CC takes 6 hours and MM takes 8 hours. 2 CC to make a petfood, which is 12 hours of the magic academy and I could make 1.5 MM instead.)

    With 3.5 hours, you could get in two collections by resetting the manufacturers to 3 hours and making sure you are around in 3 hours. Seriously, they could have made the pet food 5.5 hour and you still only get 2 collections, but it would give more flexibility. People that can collect at lunch probably have closer to 4 hours between collections so they aren't going to be able to use a 9 hour overnight collection and then a lunchtime one.

    So, if you get 10 chests per week you get 11 MM from the tournament per week.

    In a week you can make 28 CC with a level 5 magic academy, which would could make 14 pet food, but you'd never use them because you only have 11 MM from the tournament.

    So, if you did half for making petfood and half for making MM, you would get 14 CC to make 7 pet food and you would get 10.5 MM. So say 21 MM which would be 3 per day to use, with the one pet food.

    An MM goes 13 hours and with perfect collection, there is an opportunity to collect at time 0, 3, 6, 9, and 12 hours, so 5 collections. The petfood will only boost the MM for 2 of those collections. So a simplified way of looking at it is that the value of the special effect is 2/5 is 40%. So at level 1 the special effect is that the MM gives an extra 5% for 2 collections, making the MM effectively 52% over the entire use of the MM for level 1.

    For level 10 the MM is 100%, which is double. So 40% of the extra 50% is 20% so the MM is effectively 70% over its entire use.

    So, the opportunity cost of making one pet food is 1.5 MM. That means your break even for the opportunity cost is 3.75 MM, (50% x 1.5 /0.2).

    Just looking at this, the best way to get the most would be to do as many MM at a time, as in do all of your manufacturers. So, if you have 4-5 of each manufacturer, you could do the special effect on them about 2 times per week (4 CC for pet food, 18 + 11 = 29 MM). Looking at this, it really makes sense that if you do an MM round, you should do the pet food for the second half of the MM, so 8 CC for pet food leaving 15 + 11 = 26 MM. So by using 2 pet food the MM is effectively 90% over its use.

    80% of 26 is 20.8. So if you did nothing but MM and CC for pet food with your MA and get 10 chests in the tournament, a level 10 storm would be like having an extra 21 MM per week. I guess each extra level the special effect works out to the about the benefit of an extra 2 MM.

    It is deleted now...
     
    silvia likes this.
  3. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    I kinda still feel like the Aurite and Storm should be combined into 1....and I'd still choose Firechicken.
     
    silvia likes this.
  4. Karvest

    Karvest Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    one pet food affects all MM's casted, so you can't compare it with one MM effect.
    You can cast 3 pet foods on fully MM-buffed city (say 18 MM's at once) on lvl 10 storm and get double effect on all of MMs, so these 3 pet foods would cost same as 18 MM's
    Also this is the way to boost sentient goods production.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  5. Lovec Krys

    Lovec Krys Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2018
    @SoggyShorts Without Time Warp wonder on high level you need 3 pet foods for tournament if you want bonus during all 6 rounds, so I think it's better to use 3 during single tournament for maximum effect (best combined with temporary unit health boost buildings) than use 1 every tournament.

    @Karvest I don't plan to use MM spell for expired goods, it seems as just a waste of MM spell. 1/1/1 is enough for me, the only disadvantage is that it takes longer to upgrade manufactories to 25+ lv.

    Edit: Of course I'm not planning to destroy the other two buildings. I'll leave them in inventory for a longer time. I have enough of other stuff (especially spells from tournament) to disenchant.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  6. palmira

    palmira Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    I really love my fire phoenix, now at level 8, I have been lucky with the 200 prizes, I think I will get enough from the daily prizes to get it at least to lvl9, but I have no intention to build the other phoenixes, even if I will have enough of the upgrade stuff. If the spells would be on for say 2 days it would be different but 3,5h seems like a waste of space
     
  7. Karvest

    Karvest Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    1 pet food per week to get max KP from first 2 rounds is good enough strategy, but I hope that 2-3 pet foods per week would be obtainable (otherwise other phoenixes would be too useless).
     
    Golden Awaken likes this.
  8. soleil

    soleil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2019
    With all of these events, I’m happy to have something to do, but it’s a bit repetitive and not a huge fan that it’s tied to building my city: the scouting, encounters, upgrading, tech tree to be specific. It limits what you can do with your city if you’re having to wait for an event to come around to upgrade things or want to work on your map.

    The new phoenix eggs, I like all of them and redid my city to use all of them at some point.

    I have all of them out and incubating:
    Aureate- for my boosted
    Storm – for non-boosted and the magical manufacturing spell
    Fire – for working on my map and when I get my monster encounters.

    If we could get small bags of pet food that last 10 or 15 minutes for the Fire they might be helpful too-maybe their cost is spell fragments. (or has an encounter duration - lasts for 12 encounters and then expires.) For those who do not have very many provinces in tournaments and if you’re working on your map but not closing out all of the encounters at once.

    It was a unique idea to add to the game. Wish wonders worked like this… no kps to upgrade but we can evolve them instead using the Phoenix spell or a similar spell that is exclusive to upgrading wonders.

    I also like that they can be evolved and still be useful even if one can’t upgrade them to the newest chapter yet. And that they offer more things when they are evolved.

    The outpost building has been extremely helpful to me, please consider the re-activation spell to re-use these buildings for all events that drop goodies on the ground.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  9. edeba

    edeba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    So 3 petfood would take 1.5 days in level 5 MM. So then you have 11 from tournament and you could make 15 more from the MA, so it definitely makes sense to use 3 petfood, but don't do them all at once.

    I know it affects all of them, I was just looking at the effect of one pet food on one MM because then you can multiply that effect times the number used. I was tired when I was thinking that one through...

    Totally agree there, only 3.5 hours is not very much, and it could have been 4.5 hours and had the same effect but would have increased flexibility and it is so easy to waste that second collection because of something delaying you from collecting...

     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  10. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    Without Time warp I would never even consider doing 6 rounds;)
    Like karvest said, with no time warp Just using pet food for 2 rounds to get a bunch of KP is a great use. I have always done 1-6 5 stars and 6+ to 2 stars anyways so it fits perfectly.

    So soon? What dailies have been worth spinning on for you?
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  11. maxiqbert

    maxiqbert Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    In my fellowship, almost all players are going fire. It seems quite obvious that with a longer effect of the feeding than the 2 others, it's a bit out of balance.
    I think the effect should be 24h for all 3 eggs. Then the choice would be a bit less obvious.
     
    PrimroseSylvia, edeba and SoggyShorts like this.
  12. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    Even 8 or 13 or 17 hours would make it more competitive, but for simplicity, 24h makes sense to me.
     
    Golden Awaken likes this.
  13. edeba

    edeba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    I think the MM one is really out of balance because of the competition for the MA. This would have been an excellent piece if you could make CC separately and still had your MA to make the spells we used to make, or at least I used to make. But you have making military boosts, RR spells also competing with MM. I am still making a combination of MM and CC on beta, but I haven't made MM in ages on live. I've had more resources for spell fragments on live, whereas I've been more conservative because of spell fragments on beta.

    And seriously, with the orc imbalance that now exists for strong tournament playing, you just don't have the orcs that are needed to go with higher goods production for catering.

    I'm never going to the higher chapters in beta, so I got the aureate for beta, but I don't see a choice for live because of the more than 300% increase in orc catering costs that went with an effective 20% decline in orc production for upgrading armories. I am still waiting for @Marindor to check this again as I am just stunned that they would actually design the game that the better play is to not upgrade your armories.

    740 orc in 21 squares is 987 in 28 squares, so that would the equivalent for level 31 as a starting place for a 28 square armory and you end up with only 870 after two upgrades and a scatload of extra population? It staggers my mine that people with a skill set to actually make a game would actually do this by design and insist that it isn't an error. I would like to see starting base of 987 orc production from 28 squares with at least two 7% increases, which would be an adjustment to 1130 orcs for the level 33 armory, but a 7% increase is still a very small increase. The per square population increase is 22.6%, and that would be a more reasonable increase to apply which would give 1210 orcs.

    I did a comparison with the orc requirements 2 chapters lower and it was 320% more that I needed. I think I calculated something like 8 extra expansions to keep up with the increase in orc demand. May the game designers never go into politics as I would hate to see such poor logic applied to how a country is run... The country would be bankrupt in no time...

     
    SoggyShorts likes this.
  14. palmira

    palmira Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    I used most of my thingies for the speeds, I don't believe we will have troops, KPs or portal instants buildings so I used the rest today, 4x4 is a good size for fragments :) I finished the event the first week so I am quite comfortable with time instants now :)
     
    SoggyShorts likes this.
  15. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    Nice, I only spent about 800 so far (on 14h booster day) to get the wishing well since I had just placed all of my other ones.
    I had some bad luck on 82 boxes, only +200 on 1 in 7 so far, hopefully, that turns around.
     
  16. edeba

    edeba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    The ability to win essence is way, way, way down this event...

     
  17. maxiqbert

    maxiqbert Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    bad luck yes, but exceptionnally so since it's only 10%, so you're already above average :-O
    I have the feeling you get better output using the very very small (18 essence) than trying to grab some extra essence
     
  18. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    That I was very lucky with I think. Always picked 18 when I could, and it felt like half the time. 18>20>82 one of those almost every time, only had to do a 46 once I think.
    Still early though.
     
  19. soleil

    soleil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2019
    What are the pet foods considered? they didn't count as a spell or an enchantment in the quest line, but are listed under enchantments.
     
  20. Karvest

    Karvest Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    they are enchantments, but quests actually ask you to get something that can be crafted in MA main queue, not in crafting tab.
     

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