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Quests Don't require us to build manufactories for which we have no boost

DeletedUser58

Guest
This was the message at the start of this thread.
Right, but I was mainly leading myself from this part: What should be encouraged is for players to build only the manufactories that they have the boost for and to trade with other players for the others.

So for this type of quest to be level dependant is very relevant, because for low level players the need for marble, steel and planks is high for buildings / upgrades / research tree, so to have the 3 manufactories which are available (steel, marble, planks) is a necessity. Above tier 3 I get the impression that this is not the case.
I would disagree with this. I did build all 3 manufactories when I started the game, but I quickly (in the next few days) sold my other non-boosted goods manufactories and just sticked with Steel ones (that was my boost). If when you're starting out you have just a single neighbor who produces boosted marble and one who produces boosted planks, you can meet all your needs. They will need your steel, you will need their marble/planks. If steel is more common so its harder to sell it, you can sell it at a cheaper ratio (for example offer 100, demand 60). You don't need these other goods buildings unless you have completely no access at all to either of the other two goods (and if that happens now I believe the fault lies in the fact that inactive players aren't moved around, not in how the system works).

Can I just check the definition of "tier".
Tier 1 = marble/plank/steel. Tier 2 = crystal/scroll/silk. Tier 3 = gems/elixir/magic dust. Not sure if they come one per each color of header in the research tree but I would imagine so. When you get the quest has a lot to do with how you're progressing with the quests --- if you're going faster you'll get it earlier, if you're going slower you'll get it later on. So it doesn't mean the quest is given out to the wrong audience, it may just imply that someone reached that quest sooner and someone got to it at a later time.

In tier 1 and 2 the typical trades on the market are Demand 300 planks Offer 200 marble. So to get sufficient goods for buildings / upgrades / research tree you have to have non boosted manufactories, take these unballanced trades or spend lots of coin and supplies buying from the wholesaler.
Why not just keep producing the boosted goods and take those trades? They're not fair (not 300:300) but they're still a better deal than taking the trades from the wholesaler or attempting to produce those goods yourself.

You get 1 boosted goods type per tier, and the aim is to trade with other players to get the remaining 2 goods types per tier. You don't start producing goods at the very start of the game, there's a certain period where you don't have access to goods/trades yet. In that period you will likely discover some new neighbors. Once you start producing they will likely also start producing and you can start trading. There's no need to produce non-boosted goods. If you're extremely unlucky to have no one at all to produce a goods type, you can start producing that goods type yourself (at the earlier stages it's better than trading with the wholesaler). But that would still be your own choice, while quests such as the ones mentioned above force you to do this. They don't leave it as a choice for the player.

If there are only 3 boosted goods (on the research tree) then why do we have relecs for 9 different items on the world map? Is it a case of at the moment everyone gets the same boosts but in later development there will be the allocation of a different group of 3 relic item boosts to different players to encourage trading?
There is no info about that at the moment, we can only speculate about what the developers aim to do with the different relics. But we all get assigned our boosted goods randomly, so I may have a boost in steel, scrolls, and magic dust, while you get a boost in marble, silk, and gems. If we were neighbors, this means at any stage in the game I can provide you my goods and you can provide me your goods --- there's no need for either of us to build each other's goods. It should be something as a last resort, if you absolutely cannot get the goods in any other way or just if you wish to play the game that way.

But because these quests cannot be skipped, they impose that play-style on the player. That's what I'd like to see changed, make these quests optional or have their requirements be about boosted goods types only. To push the player to produce more of what they can produce in large numbers and to interact and trade with other players, as opposed to being self-sufficient and trying to produce everything themselves. Sorry the post got long, I've apparently gotten carried away in typing. :D And apparently half of that was not needed if I saw Acamax's reply sooner...
 

DeletedUser651

Guest
Great idea. I too agree that this type of quest should be optional/declinable.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Once again I suggest that quests should be level dependant.

If you have just started the game then this quest is valid. If you are tier 3 or above then this quest makes no sense.

If Quests are level dependant then low level players would get this one and the higher level players would not, they would get a quest that is relevant to their level, the lower level players would not get that quest until it is relevant to them.

If you make all quests optional then it will make the storyline difficult to follow. Quests are to make you follow specific actions which are designed to aid your progress through the game.

e.g. This quest

If you are low level player then your requirement for marble is high, some players may not have the trader yet so to progress you need to produce marble, timber and steel. If you are a high level player then your requirement for non boosted goods is low as you can trade for them using your boosted goods.

So rather than complain about 1 quest and say it should be scrapped or have the ability to abort quests would it not be better to look at the game as a whole and suggest that quests should be level dependant and therefore more relevant to a players current level?
This was the message at the start of this thread. So for this type of quest to be level dependant is very relevant, because for low level players the need for marble, steel and planks is high for buildings / upgrades / research tree, so to have the 3 manufactories which are available (steel, marble, planks) is a necessity. Above tier 3 I get the impression that this is not the case.

Can I just check the definition of "tier". When you talk about tier you are refering to the colour of header on the Research tree (brown = tier 1, green = tier 2, etc). As I got the quest mentioned at the start of this thread at the begining of the green section of the research tree (tier 2 I presume). So if this is when it should be allocated then why is it being allocated to someone in tier 3 and above?

In tier 1 and 2 the typical trades on the market are Demand 300 planks Offer 200 marble. So to get sufficient goods for buildings / upgrades / research tree you have to have non boosted manufactories, take these unballanced trades or spend lots of coin and supplies buying from the wholesaler. If you build these non boosted manufactories you either have to have lots of small manufactories or a few larger ones to get the quantities required. As new players can be reluctant to upgrade in the begining then this type of quest forces them to take that first step.

From the research tree I can only see 3 boosted goods. So if players only produce boosted goods where do the non boosted goods come from, the wholesaler?

If there are only 3 boosted goods (on the research tree) then why do we have relecs for 9 different items on the world map? Is it a case of at the moment everyone gets the same boosts but in later development there will be the allocation of a different group of 3 relic item boosts to different players to encourage trading?

In tiers 1 and 2 the need for these non boosted goods is high.

That is the reasons why I suggest that these types of quests should be level dependant (as at the moment I get the impression that they are not if they are being allocated to players who are tier 3 and above) and why, for the newer players at least, they should be mandatory.

As a player advances up the research tree then yes they should have the option to accept or decline these types of quests. If declined this could make advancement a little slower and more difficult as this type of quest tend to direct players to address current and future needs.

No. If you do not have the boost for the good, you should not be required to build it. Period. The level you are at doesn't matter.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Of course there is. You build cultural things, they are eye candy with as afterthought a function
 

DeletedUser283

Guest
If they want me to build a goods building for which I do not have the boost, let them give me the boost for that good beforehand :D

fair deal, isn't it ? :p
 

DeletedUser651

Guest
Adding on to this idea, I also think we should be able to skip the advanced manufactories in the research tree for manufactories for which we have no boost.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
It would make things too easy Bobby. If you could skip everything that didn't have to do with boost you would keep 66% of your stuff. Way too easy. A nonrequierement fine, but not that you can skip the research.
 

DeletedUser651

Guest
It just seems a little silly that I have to spend an entire week doing nothing but gathering extra supplies while I research the ability to have advanced versions of manufactories that I will never build. 125 hours of down time while I make sure I get through those quests isn't fun.

edit: I guess only 85 hours are for factories I will never build. (I also just noticed the level 2 goods are called factories, not manufactories). But even still.....85 hours is a lot of time where the game slows to nothing.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I think of it as fun. I like to be independent of everyone. I have something of everything, I have a self sustaining city. It isn't lore friendly, yes. A city mostly does 1 thing (The boosted) It is a bit strange that stone can be found in the middle of a city or wood. But with the ridiculous prices for the things I really need I don't care to do a bit extra.
 

DeletedUser236

Guest
It just seems a little silly that I have to spend an entire week doing nothing but gathering extra supplies while I research the ability to have advanced versions of manufactories that I will never build. 125 hours of down time while I make sure I get through those quests isn't fun.

edit: I guess only 85 hours are for factories I will never build. (I also just noticed the level 2 goods are called factories, not manufactories). But even still.....85 hours is a lot of time where the game slows to nothing.
You might want to look at ideas like these (click) if youwant more choice in the research tree

But back on topic: it seems like making the "build a non boosted manufactory" quest declineable a fair option to all players who are using different kinds of strategies :)
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I think, this change should be part of a major overworking of quest design. I could live with quests demanding this, If they were well designed, as I take them to be intended as part of a bigger story.

But at the moment they're poorly designed: As I remember about the marble manufactory quest, it is said, that it is necessary to produce marble in your city for some reason, but this doesn't turn out to be true. And it is unfair, because I never got asked to build and upgrade a planks manufactory or a steel manufactory (what I have the boost for) in that manner.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I believe I've played every game Innogames has offered since 2010. I also worked for them as translator. Every game of theirs has illogical quests like these. I bet the same questwriter is behind all of them...
 

DeletedUser

Guest
ok ok..long story short.. +1 for decline button on quests that are not Level and or story line related ;)
 

DeletedUser43

Guest
All sorts of quests related to non-boosted goods are discussed in this thread: getting a non-boosted relic, researching a non-boosted manufactory or building/upgrading a non-boosted manufactory. It looks like most players agree that something should be done about quests related to non-boosted goods. Different solutions have been proposed:
  • Remove all quests related to non-boosted goods
  • Change all quests related to non-boosted goods to quests related to boosted goods
  • Give an option to decline quests related to non-boosted goods
  • Make the quests level dependant (so each player only gets quests related to non-boosted goods of the Tier he's in: marble/steel/planks, crystal/scrolls/silk or elixir/magic dust/gems)
  • Keep the early quests related to non-boosted goods (so beginning players will learn the benefits of producing boosted goods) and remove/change the later quests related to non-boosted goods
  • Keep all quests related to non-boosted goods, but give them a better background story
A question for all players: Which solution(s) for the problem of quests related to non-boosted goods would you like the most? Most of you already have given your opinions about what should be done, but I'd like to ask you all to reply once more, as a full list of options wasn't available earlier. :)
 
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DeletedUser205

Guest
I go with #3

If it is possible do decline the quest, everybody should be satisfied
 
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