Discussion Changes in declining quests

[DeletedUser]

Well the main problem i see in this upgrade is already been mentioned by my fellowship mate and a good friend @ophion on this very thread ...

How crazy is it that I get a quest to upgrade a manufactory to level 6 or higher...that is undeclinable...when I've completed the tech tree several months ago...all buildings are at level 15 and there are no more expansions available???
Is this the way of progress in making the game better?
I sometimes wonder if the devs have any idea what their players need or even listen?
Many of my friends have up and left the game out of exasperation with this update and I can see a lot more following in their footsteps.
If this update had been implemented after we had been given a new tech tree to uncover then it might have made sense... with new possibilities of expansions and the chance of acquiring new buildings etc... but as it is...it would be laughable if it wasn't so downright stupid.
Some of us have waited months to hear of new content added so we can start to play the game again...but instead we get this ridiculous update that p's us all off to the point of giving up altogether.(

In reality what players are looking forward is some way to play this game which has come to a standstill for a long a long time now ... the repeatable quest were the only thing that we were able to do when nothing else was possible and even that is now being not allowed ... My only question is What do the game developer's expect players to do in this game when they have already finished the tech-tree and all possible upgrades?? Just keep waiting for the new content looking at the screen day in and day out?? Collect coins and supplies which we don't know where to dump when it reaches its maximum capacity ?? Keep collecting and trading goods for eternity ?? What is there in this game to keep the player's interested after the tech-tree is done with?? What is there in this game for a player to return to this game everyday when almost everything is completed ... Give me one good reason please... its a sincere request from me who's one such a player myself ... I am not saying the repeatable quest kept players interested but atleast there was something that could be done in the game ...Now there's nothing at all .. And thats the reason so many complaining and some of them leaving the game for good without even bothering to talk about it.... I know the answer will be wait for the NEW CONTENT ... Some players have been doing that for months now if you guys are not aware of it already ... Don't think players of any game will have that much of patience and loyalty towards a game that has just been started recently, to wait for months and months just to play the game itself ... The other Inno game Forge of empires when it started on live servers had many things to do and by the time we had to wait for the new content in that, there was already a lot to do within the game itself that kept the players interested in the game even if the new content took time to be added in it ... Just saying ...

 

[DeletedUser778]

Well, if you do the same quests in a row so often, I can see them become boring. Are you liking the actual quests, or do (did?) you just like the rewards they gave?

For most players sidequests are only an extra source of income...
I liked the gain 2k silk/gems/marble quests because they follow each other, so i could collect 50% of my silk production-> collect reward -> restart production -> collect 50% of my gems production -> collect reward -> restart production -> collect 50% of my marble production -> collect reward -> restart production.
After declining one quest there was/is the collect 5k supplies quest I did when I was low on coins due to scouting.
Then a little more clicking to get to collect 150k coins for 10k supplies that I did when I was low on supplies and then declining until the collect 2k of x goods came up again.
So I enjoyed doing this quests because they are close together and practical, so I only needed to do the collect 150k coin quest like around 80% of the cylcles through theside quests and the collect 5k supplies quest around 20% of the cycles through the sidequest to fill all my needs.
I could have also done the population quest, the culture quest, the bread quest, or the fighting/negotiating quests, when I was on the world map, but for what if I can get enough from the quests mentioned above with not too much clicking, still some clicking though.

So quest are mostly not enjoyed by player, but like I said a source of income.

People who don't like clikcing much builded their city more autarchic, other who didn't mind clicking a lot build their city up to zero workshops, because they could.
For the player without, or only a few workshops the frustration is really big now, because they are now forced to restructure their whole city
and it's just another limitation of a game full of limitation: "You can be a Trader or Fighter" -> yeah sure... once you build barracks you have to stick with it and there are also main quest demanding barracks/armories, main quests which demand non boosted manufactories and
from a personal experience: I set my goal to go the shortest way to the farest away boosted relics first and then do the closer boosted relics. Then a mainquest demanded me to gain 3 dust relics... so dust is never on the shortest path to my boosted relics, so I nearly was forced to do a province that absolutely did not stick to my plan, if there wasn't luckily one as far as another province, because of a failed try to reach a far away neighbour earlier.

The recent change is just another step to less individuality ...

To come again to the quests...
From a players pov:
Achievable in no time and decent reward -> Perfect quest
Achievale in no time and ok reward -> Very good quest
Achievble in not much time and decent reward -> Very good quest
Achievable in no time and a little reward -> Good quest
Achievable in not much time and ok reward -> Good quest
Achievable in some time and decent reward -> Good quest
.
.
.
Achievable in a long time and a ok reward -> Bad quest
Achievable in a long time and a little reward -> Very bad quest

And how should something like real joy comes up doing quest?
Through game limitations it's always hold lmb and collect some stuff you started to produce earlier (except coins), click on the upgrade button of a building and wait some time, click some troops in the barracks queue and wait some time, or fight/negotiate encounters.
How is joy supposed from the quest itself and not the reward and/or the convenience?

 

[DeletedUser1037]

I know, these posts are boring, but necessary

This morning I could decline the stupid "100 culture" quest, and which quests do I have now?





The "upgrade manufactory"-quest from yesterday, and the "upgrade 2 buildings"

Really, do you want to bore me to death? It's the third day in a row and again I can do nothing. This is so damn boring, watching the grass grow is more exciting.
Is it really the goal, that we will get perhaps 2 solvable quests in a good week, until "the responses are evaluated" and "the quests are improved"? It will take months, until it's finished.

@Bobbykitty
And on top:



On Tuesday I had about 400k supplies and now there are only 278k left. I must shut down my gems manufactories on the weekend, if there's no miracle until then.

And I have 8 level 15 workshops - I had them always, but without the supplies from the rewards, I can't get along.

 

[DeletedUser778]

For me the game lives from my on goals/quest i set for myself(without these I got bored to quitting already I guess), like do the reverse conquering of boosted relics to get a max out, before the outer rings become impossible and building an ok looking city with the main focus on an effective goods producion, so if i could i would tear down my barracks and armories to have more space for goods, but i can't and luckily i decided to not put it to the max without workshops, because it felt a little wrong for me, but still with my 12 planned level 15 workshops i could not fill my needs without regulary doing quests.

So I did some math, resulting in that I have to sell around 20% of my tier 1, 2 and 3 manufactories to build 17 instead of 12 workshops, to be completely autarchic from quest and don't need to ever do them again.
But selling these manufactories will really hurt, because of all the time investment and not being able to have the same space for each tier anymore.
Furthermore I get headache looking at my city plan in my spreadsheet and trying to reange it with less manufactories and more workshops to a still ok looking setup.
So I need an answer:
When get new building space avaibale?
If it is soon I stick with 24h production cycles until then and build new workshops then, if it is not soon I have to rearange stuff.
I really hope for an answer, because if I rearange my whole city and next month new building space is avaible I get really really pissed...

 

[DeletedUser802]

Well the main problem i see in this upgrade is already been mentioned by my fellowship mate and a good friend @ophion on this very thread ...



In reality what players are looking forward is some way to play this game which has come to a standstill for a long a long time now ... the repeatable quest were the only thing that we were able to do when nothing else was possible and even that is now being not allowed ... My only question is What do the game developer's expect players to do in this game when they have already finished the tech-tree and all possible upgrades?? Just keep waiting for the new content looking at the screen day in and day out?? Collect coins and supplies which we don't know where to dump when it reaches its maximum capacity ?? Keep collecting and trading goods for eternity ?? What is there in this game to keep the player's interested after the tech-tree is done with?? What is there in this game for a player to return to this game everyday when almost everything is completed ... Give me one good reason please... its a sincere request from me who's one such a player myself ... I am not saying the repeatable quest kept players interested but atleast there was something that could be done in the game ...Now there's nothing at all .. And thats the reason so many complaining and some of them leaving the game for good without even bothering to talk about it.... I know the answer will be wait for the NEW CONTENT ... Some players have been doing that for months now if you guys are not aware of it already ... Don't think players of any game will have that much of patience and loyalty towards a game that has just been started recently, to wait for months and months just to play the game itself ... The other Inno game Forge of empires when it started on live servers had many things to do and by the time we had to wait for the new content in that, there was already a lot to do within the game itself that kept the players interested in the game even if the new content took time to be added in it ... Just saying ...

 

[DeletedUser802]

Well the main problem i see in this upgrade is already been mentioned by my fellowship mate and a good friend @ophion on this very thread ...



In reality what players are looking forward is some way to play this game which has come to a standstill for a long a long time now ... the repeatable quest were the only thing that we were able to do when nothing else was possible and even that is now being not allowed ... My only question is What do the game developer's expect players to do in this game when they have already finished the tech-tree and all possible upgrades?? Just keep waiting for the new content looking at the screen day in and day out?? Collect coins and supplies which we don't know where to dump when it reaches its maximum capacity ?? Keep collecting and trading goods for eternity ?? What is there in this game to keep the player's interested after the tech-tree is done with?? What is there in this game for a player to return to this game everyday when almost everything is completed ... Give me one good reason please... its a sincere request from me who's one such a player myself ... I am not saying the repeatable quest kept players interested but atleast there was something that could be done in the game ...Now there's nothing at all .. And thats the reason so many complaining and some of them leaving the game for good without even bothering to talk about it.... I know the answer will be wait for the NEW CONTENT ... Some players have been doing that for months now if you guys are not aware of it already ... Don't think players of any game will have that much of patience and loyalty towards a game that has just been started recently, to wait for months and months just to play the game itself ... The other Inno game Forge of empires when it started on live servers had many things to do and by the time we had to wait for the new content in that, there was already a lot to do within the game itself that kept the players interested in the game even if the new content took time to be added in it ... Just saying ...

I must agree with you. The lack of additions to the game that the designers have been promising for months is a very real concern. In the Beta server a majority of the players have hit this dead end, and have been waiting, waiting, waiting for something more to do. I originally asked the question about future additions to the game back in April, when I was no where near the end of the Research Tree. The reply was they were planning all sorts of new content and material that would extend the game. But here we are five months later. I have completed the Research Tree, etc. and am now at a dead end. And still no new content has been added to the end of the game. My city here in Beta is virtually abandoned, as are the cities of many others. It is like an ornament that I visit to look at every so often, but can't do anything more with. Like a lot of players, I started new cities on other servers, and now have a total of 4 cities. But now I find that I have a second city where I am within days of hitting the same dead end that I am at here. What happens when all of my cities reach the end of the game? How long can the designers legitimately expect players to simply wait? How long before you lose the interest of your players/customers, and they leave and don't come back?

I sincerely think that the designers need to move forward with some urgency on this problem. It is not as if this were a problem that confronted the designers suddenly or unexpectedly----they have seen it coming for months. When I was just brand new here in Beta, there were players who were already approaching the end of the game. Unless they intend to simply leave Elvenar to end where it lies now, the game needs to be extended. Even the option of opening new cities will eventually become boring----how many cities can you open, and what do you do when each one in turn reaches the end of the game? Despite all the bugs and changes and problems, I have thoroughly enjoyed playing Elvenar. I had always wanted an online game with a fantasy background----most especially one that was not primarily a war game. The buildings here are beautiful, intricate, elaborate, wonderfully creative and entertainingly animated, and I have spent thousands of hours playing here. I don't regret that, but I would really like the game to continue.

 

[DeletedUser283]

without jumping to conclusions, we can pull out the following points from all that has been written here

1. the quests are far from perfect, some are uninteresting, some are unfeasible, some are just plain stupid
2. preventing players from declining quests they do not wish to complete is not the right solution
3. do not bring this limitation to the live servers !

[edit]
16:15
just found an email notification about an Elvenar Game Design live Q&A that took place 2 hours ago on twitch (and I missed it because I did not check my mails before)
amazing : we beta testers have not been notified;
I am certain that we would have had plenty of interesting questions to ask ...
[/edit]

 

[Jixel]

A few thoughts:

1. Please hold off on taking this change to the live servers - there's already some discussion on the EN/US forums, and none of it is positive.
There are over 140 replies here, and hardly any of these are positive either ! There's a clear message here: DO NOT TAKE THIS CHANGE FORWARD.

2. Ok, some more information on how people actually play the game, since Inno don't seem to understand it:
My play style can best be described as "optimiser". In fact, that's what I enjoy in this game - optimising my city, making the most out of the space available, and making progress. I'm playing on EN (Premium), US & Beta (non-Premium on both so far).

Now, the first step in making progress is research. How do I do that ? Well, collecting Knowledge Points.
But ... if I take more than 9-10 hours between visits, I lose KP ! And my already-slow progress through the tech tree becomes even slower.

So, logically, I need to log in a few times per day - for me, typically around 8am (before going to work), 6-7pm (after work, depending on the kids ), and then after 8-9pm-ish for a few hours.

So, since I'm already logged on at those times, of course I'm going to set up trades, start some upgrades, and start Goods and Supplies production.
It's just more efficient that way
Normally I start 9hr productions just before going to bed, and in the morning, and one or two 3hr (if the timing is right) in the evening.

3. Now to the quests - why would I ever do a quest which asks for 24hour productions, when I would get 50% (or worse!) less Goods for it than my current 3+9+9 pattern ? I think I did one once, when I was new to the game and didn't realise that quests repeated after a while - since then, never. I decline them every time.

Earlier this week, my city was completely full - not a single square free, and only 7 people left. I literally could not upgrade a single thing for a few days. Therefore, of course I had to decline every "upgrade a manufactory", "add 100 people", "add 100 culture", etc quest - there was no way for me to do them !

Then, I got a city expansion, made some room, added population, trigged some upgrades - and then ended up with zero culture, and no way to upgrade anything again. Once again, I declined every quest asking for an upgrade - and again, if I could only decline once a day, I would have been totally stuck.

4. My 11 workshops produce about 56,000 Supplies (using the 9+9+3 pattern).
To operate all of my Goods factories in 9+9+3 takes 39,000ish.
Filling up the queue in the Barracks takes 8-10k each time - which could be 2-3 times per day.
Negotiating in Provinces can take 500-2000k Supplies - per encounter.
And on top of that, there are upgrades, which can take 1000 to 30,000 or more each.
I don't see any way to make that all balance out with the amount of Supplies, without completely reworking my city (and remember, I'm always short on space, I don't have anywhere to even put more workshops ... ).

5. ... going off on a tangent, but - please, please do something to make visiting the Fellowship+neighbours easier !
Across three servers I have about 120 neighbours and 51 in Fellowships, it takes far too long to do them all.

Ummm. That turned into more of a ramble, but I hope someone is reading and can make some sense out of it

J.

 

[DeletedUser594]

Can't help myself, but keep thinking this Beta is going the same way as Tortuga (pirate game)
and a few others! Have not been corrected yet....
Map I'm on is full of holes again as players leaving.....
Plus this is my last time ever to take part in an Inno Beta...

 

[DeletedUser867]

In the Beta server a majority of the players have hit this dead end, and have been waiting, waiting, waiting for something more to do.

A score of around 30,000 points indicates that a player has maxed out their city. That's 3% of our players, which is by no means a majority.

 

[Brummbaer]

Hello Elvenars - Players/Testers and Developer.
It' cruel to hear / read this frustration.

I like to open an other (my) point of view:

We are spending time and (sometimes) money to test a game - we are the Beta-Tester!!!
Our goal is to have some fun to play and find bugs, offer ideas, say what is bad and what is good.

So my first question is - why limitating us? We want to make your game better.
Second question - is there need to know the skip/decline ratio?
Here are enough players who explain why they do it, so I skip (HiHi) my comment.

So from my point of view it is better to have players/tester with their own interrest to test the game.
Giving feedback and ideas to improve the interrest of the game.
Not everything is bad, but hear our voice when we say "Better not this way!"

So - think about our meanings and go back one step.

We, I think the most of the high an higher level players, are still waiting for the next upgrade of the game.

Sorry for my english it is not my native language.

Regards Brummbaer

 

[DeletedUser]

A score of around 30,000 points indicates that a player has maxed out their city. That's 3% of our players, which is by no means a majority.

I know a few players who have reached the end of tech-tree and have got only 20k -25k points ... I dont think that the points are any indicator at all to know who's finished the game ... Anyways I dont really care how this game is going to go anymore ...Had lots of interest and ideas for it to improve ... but i don't see anything of that happening anymore... Its for Inno to bother about it ... I was just saying what the vast majority of the players who are playing it still and complaining on these forums, who have already left it without finding anything to do in the game and those who are on the verge of leaving it soon were / are feeling ... if inno wants to go by just the few satisfied and content player's words they are by all means free to accept that ... happy gaming all ...

 

[DeletedUser]

Feeling sorry for all the players spending diamonds on this game. I play Browser Games from Inno since August 13 and sure learned one thing very quickly: don't put trust in them. Heavy mistakes in "balancing" and other game issues are the rule, not the exception. The basic idea of each game is always very good, however - Inno Games is kind of expert in ruining their own games. This one is a good example.

Simply let us decline quests as before, what the heck is the problem?!?! The way it is now, it's NOT acceptable.

 

[DeletedUser240]

And again 2 quest i have to wait before i can decline, build altar and gain 100 popul
Muf- Muf says they listen to our feefback but did nothing in the passed with it, i can understand a little bit that they change it for new players so they don't decline all the quest.
In the passed i did most of the quest, but once level 15 on everything and only can play in the province 8 of the 10 quest are useless for players that are end of tech.

 

[Bramblerose]

HI,

I have to adjust my production because. I have no more supplies available, thanks to the new updates today.
I had to cycle 3h-3h-3h-3h-9h. It would not work well with another cycle. My city is for 2
Months built and everything worked until now with the super resources. I'm going because of this senseless
Update not rebuild my city. Too bad Elvenar.
I think I'll leave the sinking ship, because I have no desire to produce only tools at my production
to maintain. I hope the update will be removed as soon as possible otherwise the wars. :-(((((((

LG Bramblerose

Sorry für das Englisch ist nicht meine Muttersprache

 

[DeletedUser651]

It was intended that the quests were possible to skip an unlimited amount of times, which is why we said it is not a bug. And it was not, and still is not. But, it is not intended that the quests are used as an unlimited supply of coins and supplies, or making it possible to do the same quests over and over again, just for the rewards. We want quests to be engaging, challenging and most of all fun to complete. Repeating the same one or two quests all day long reaches none of these goals, which is why we made the decision to change that. Did we do that in the right way? Maybe, but judging from your feedback, there is still some more work to be done to make the system perfect.

One thing is very clear reading and re-reading the posts from mods and players.....the game devs have no clue how we all play this game. I also don't think they know why we do all the things we do. We have tried to tell them over and over and yet, it falls on deaf ears. I know I find that incredibly frustrating. I can see that others do as well.


What I don't think they ever hear from any of us is that the paint drying, S L O W, "omg this game can't really be that slow"....., "whoa seriously....I can't do anything for days?"....."are you kidding I just got done waiting for days and now I have to wait for more DAYS?"......."oh no...come on now, not another 3 day wait for something to happen"......."for heavens sake, now that I have progressed the game has gotten even slower?"...... way of playing this game that they seem to have designed....IS A BAD DESIGN.

Just like little kids we all took a fairly dull game and found a way to make it interesting. Does anyone LIKE endless clicking on quests? Of course not. We are not insane. Is this the only way we can stay interested in this....yup. Yuppers. Uh huh. You got.

Now....there is another option....listen to the BETA TESTERS...the people who are TESTING your game. The ones who are playing it REAL TIME....not the speeded up version the people who work for you play....but the real time game players. Listen to us. We have tried to tell you since the game began about where the game is awful...where it is great...what works, what doesn't. We aren't fools either. You do know that many of are adults and know that you have to make money and we want you to make money, so our suggestions take that into consideration. But you haven't taken our suggestions. You made getting culture even harder. In fact, every change you make seems to make the game even slower. We speed it up, you slow it down more. STOP DOING THAT.

I can promise you that no matter what you intend, players have many options in gaming out in the world of the internet. Unless you only want players who eat paint chips, this game has to be interesting enough to hold attention or you lose everyone's attention.

 

[DeletedUser1025]

A score of around 30,000 points indicates that a player has maxed out their city. That's 3% of our players, which is by no means a majority.

I agree with ddevil - there are about 13000 people on beta, 10000 have over 200 points (actually started to play the game), 750 of them has over 30000 points. Which makes it at least 7.5%. However, the points do not reflect the progress in the tree, only the houses built and provinces gained. A lot of people bought the points and/or fight more than the others and could reach the tree end sooner.
I reached the end of the tree at least three weeks ago and I am still gaining points on occasional upgrade completion. Also, I am scarily gaining on my position (up to from 520 to 496 in less than two days), which can only mean that a lot of people ahead of me quit every day.....

 

[DeletedUser651]

Oh joy! Yesterday I was stuck with Build and Altar of the forefathers and train 1000 units. Today I am stuck with Build an Altar of the forefathers and Produce 3 mage journals.

Another day with NO quests. And there go my supplies.

No supplies, no goods production. No goods production....umm...wait is this still even a game?



PS...you know the anger was a good sign....it meant people cared. As the comments dwindle and no response comes all that anger turns into apathy and indifference and then there is no one left to try to please. My entire fellowship is saying the same thing....we are bored...there is no game here....this is boring. And this is what...only 3 days after this change?

Seriously...what is the "game" for any of us any more? Stop by and click and click on neighbor's cities and try to find the culture icon that gives them the best help? You say you don't want endless clicking? Well what is that? And then what? Go back to our cities and watch the coins pop up? Yay!!! Coins popped!!

 

[DeletedUser283]

same here
yesterday I had "upgrade a residence" (which one of these level 15 houses ?) and "produce bread 8 times" (no, thanks, it is 3-hour cycles for me, period; because this is how I organized the game so that it does not eat up my life)
today, I am stuck with "produce bread 8 times" (same story) and "upgrade a manufactory" (which one of these level 15 manufactories ?)

this is leading us nowhere.

 

[Elderflower]

I have finished all my research but am now working on finishing my city. I still have room for expansions and several buildings still need upgrading. I do not find the quests a problem but then I never thought of calculating exactly what they cost me as I am afraid I don't really play the game with any fixed purpose. I guess I don't have the right kind of mathematical brain .
I seem to be just ambling through the game and seeing what comes next. So far I am happy.