[Discussion] Behind the Scenes: Battle Redesign

[DeletedUser]

That doesn't work either Shadowblack, if I manage to use my sworddancer for the first hit, 10 will be reduced from the enemy Thiefs of Bandits. When they manage to hit me first, I lose half of my troep of sword dancer and Archers go from 69 tot 10!

 

[Dony]

there is treant on the end of chapter 2

 

[DeletedUser]

I know Dony, but haven't researched it yet, it while take a will before I reach the treant, even longer now that I won't have extra knowledge points from the provinces

So yes, the fun is totally out of the game for me. I'm completely stuck, no room for more houses, can't upgrade my workplaces or factories, can't upgrade my amories, cityhall or barracks. No room for more culture. Absolutely nothing to do, but wait for 1 kp per hour

 

[DeletedUser1754]

Hi everyone!


Could you please help us with the following? We have forwarded your feedback about the fights being too hard/troops dying too fast/battles being out of balance and we're looking for a few more specific cases and concrete examples to look into. Could you help us by providing us a few battle reports/summaries containing the following information:


* Exact units and Squad sizes on both sides

* Which Chapter are you in the tech tree?

* How many provinces do you currently own?

* Which distance are you fighting (ranking points from encounter -1)

* How many Squad Size Upgrades have you currently researched?

* A step by step walkthrough about how the fight went


Thank you very much for your help on this!

* Exact units and Squad sizes on both sides

Against 5 enemy squads: Wild Archer - 76, Enchantress - 19, 3xBandit - 76, I put up Sword Dancer - 36, Archer - 36, 3xSword Dancer - 36

* Which Chapter are you in the tech tree?

I am in Chapter II on the tech tree. I only have Sword Dancers and Archers at this point.
* How many provinces do you currently own?
I have completed 24 provinces now, but had 23 at the time of this battle.
* Which distance are you fighting (ranking points from encounter -1)

I opened an encounter in a scrolls province that I had just scouted, in ring 4.

* How many Squad Size Upgrades have you currently researched?

I have 4 squad Size Upgrades researched

* A step by step walkthrough about how the fight went
Round 1: Bandit moved

Bandit moved, shot my Archer, -19 Archers
Archer moved, shot Enchantress, -2 Enchantress
Bandit moved, shot Archer, -17 Archers - Archer defeated
Wild Archer moved, shot Sword Dancer 3, -8
Enchantress moved, shot Sword Dancer 3, -12 Sword Dancers, +40% damage
Sword Dancer 5 moved
Sword Dancer 4 moved
Sword Dancer 3 moved
Sword Dancer 1 moved, hit Wild Archer, -16

Round 2: Bandit moved, hit Sword Dancer 3, -14 Sword Dancers
Bandit moved, hit sword Dancer 3, -2 Sword Dancers - Sword Dancer 3 defeated
Bandit hit Sword Dancer 1, -9 Sword Dancers
Wild Archer hit sword dancer 5, -7 Sword Dancers
Enchantress moved, hit sword dancer 1, -13 Sword Dancers, +40% Damage
Sword Dancer 5 moved, hit Enchantress, -5 Enchantress
Sword Dancer 4 moved, hit bandit, -18 Bandit
Sword Dancer 1 hit Wild Archer, -7 Wild Archer

Round 3: Bandit moved, shot Sword Dancer 1, -14 Sword Dancer - Sword Dancer 1 defeated
Bandit moved, shot Sword Dancer 5, -7 Sword Dancer
Bandit shot Sword Dancer 4, -10 Sword Dancer
Wild Archer moved, shot Sword Dancer 5, -6 Sword Dancer
Enchantress moved, shot Sword Dancer 4, -9 Sword Dancer, +40% Damage
Sword Dancer 5 moved, hit Enchantress, -3 Enchantress
Sword Dancer 4 hit Wild Archer, -8 Wild Archer

Round 4: Bandit shot Sword Dancer 4 -13 Sword Dancer
Bandit shot Sword Dancer 5, -6 Sword Dancer
Sword Dancer defended, -2 bandit
Bandit moved, shot Sword Dancer 5, -10 Sword Dancer - Sword Dancer 5 defeated
Wild Archer moved, shot Sword Dancer 4, -4 Sword Dancer - Sword Dancer 4 Defeated

Battle done. Enemy Units: Wild Archer – 45, Enchantress – 9, Bandit – 56, 2x Bandit - 76

Added a screenshot of the battlefield

 

[Dony]

sorry to say that but you faced enemy who is 2x bigger then you which is supposed to be impossible for you and it is. this is the point in the game where you need to realize that you need to progress in the tech tree further to be able to progress on battlefield
i do agree tho that this battles are harder on the start of the game that it was before redesign

 

[Deleted User - 60107]

You are simply too far ahead, @ethelhad. With the same squad size as you I have just 14 provinces completed, and while I could compelte 1 or 2 more the losses will be too heavy, so obviously I am supposed to stop fighting until I can research the next squad size upgrade.

@Marindor
Here's a little soemthing for the devs to think about:
I scouted a Magic Dust province that gives 3 points per encoutner, so I guess that means ring 4. So far I have squad sizr 36 (squad size upgrade 4) and just the two basic units (Sword Dancer and Elven Archer). I that province I see the following enemies:
1) Enchantress x11, Enchantress x11, Steinling x11 (squad size 43 per group)
2) Enchantress x9, Enchantress x9, Steinling x9, Steinling x9 (squad size 34 per group)
3) Enchantress x15, Steinling x15 (squad size 61 per group)
4) Enchantress x11, Steinling x11, Steinling x11 (squad size 43 per group)
5) Enchantress x9, Enchantress x9, Steinling x9, Steinling x9 (squad size 34 per group)
6) Enchantress x9, Steinling x9, Steinling x9, Steinling x9 (squad size 34 per group)
7) Enchantress x15, Steinling x15 (squad size 61 per group)
8) Enchantress x9, Enchantress x9, Steinling x9, Steinling x9 (squad size 34 per group)

If you check the stats of units you will notice that:
1) Steinling has attack bonus against both Light Melee and Light Ranged, and defense bonus against Light Ranged
2) Enchantress's skill decreases target's defense by 40%, so a light unit hit by an Enchantress will be taking 80% more damage from Steinling
3) I have no unit with bonuses against Steinling, though both my units have bonuses against Mages

No matter how I look at it I will ba taking heavy losses, especially if terrain happens to favor the enemy (I haven't checked the terrain yet).

So far I have completed 14 provinces and have scouted 3 more: Crystal province currently at 5/8 encounters, 1 Magic Dust province and 1 Silk province. In the Silk province I am facing groups of War Dog and Enchantress.

The way I see it I have already reached the point where I am supposed to stop fighting for at least a week and either negotiate or wait a few days until I manage to research: Advanced Main Hall (currently at 40/50), Squad Size upgrade 5 (29 KP), Advanced Barracks (43 KP), Sword Dancer Promotion (38 KP), Advanced Armory (30 KP) and Squad Size Upgrade 6 (28 KP). Total KP needed: 178 for all, or 120 to get just the Sword Dancer promotion. So that's about a week of no fighting, unless I want to siffer heavy losses each battle. That's rather discouraging (to put it nicely)...

 

[DeletedUser]

I’ve just read that the update with the phase 1 of the new battle design probably will go live on Wednesday. No changes in the battle design, just as it is here. Really????? You’ve got to be *blieb* kidding me!
Also player movement is still not implemented on the Dutch server, which means that all those players in deserted areas continue to loss big on neighborly help. Which means no extra tools and therefore trouble to train the units. Since we’ve been told weeks ago to empty our barracks for the new battle design, everybody is short on troops now. Introducing the new battle design (as is) before player movement is madness.
You will lose a lot (and a mean a huge lot) of players. Please don’t let this happen.

 

[DeletedUser1757]

I know Dony, but haven't researched it yet, it while take a will before I reach the treant, even longer now that I won't have extra knowledge points from the provinces

So yes, the fun is totally out of the game for me. I'm completely stuck, no room for more houses, can't upgrade my workplaces or factories, can't upgrade my amories, cityhall or barracks. No room for more culture. Absolutely nothing to do, but wait for 1 kp per hour

That how is going on in FoE. But there is even more complicated because you have so many goods. That's why i left that game. Discovered Elvenar I thought I'll be able to progress and I did until you hit the orc's chapter and then progression is done and after few updates you will be stuck even earlier.

 

[DeletedUser1250]

I am stuck again in the tournaments in province 3 of level 5.
I finished the orc chapter and researched squad size upgrade 27
I have been fighting on automatic for the greatest part of the first 4 levels. My goal was to do 5 provinces in each level and finish level 6 too with all 5.
I already knew level 5 would be harder, so I first check if fighting on automatic is possible. It is, for a few fights in province 1 and 2 of level 5. So I fight the remaining fights manually.
But fighting manually in province 3 of level 5 makes me lose most of the fights. I have no idea what to do to win it.

Example:

I tried: 5 x sword acrobat, a combination of sword acrobat with elite archers and/or bud sorceress. Also tried combinations of sword acrobats with the treants and golems. No matter what I tried, I kept losing.

This is just an example, so you can see my squad size.

So this is about fighting manually, in the tournaments, in province 3 and up in level 5 (and of course 6 too although I can't reach that).
Fighting in province 1 and 2 of level 5 and 6 is hard, but I can do it. Fighting manually in level 5 province 3 seems impossible to win, at least for me.

 

[DeletedUser1247]

anyone know why we need a barracks or merc camp now ? seeing that nearly everything can only be had by negotiate/cater whats the point ? same for armory 1 or 2 will be plenty..eg...lolz elite arch with bonus 70% against sorceress lost against sorceress, fights not winable anymore, cater cater cater

 

[DeletedUser1757]

I am stuck again in the tournaments in province 3 of level 5.
I finished the orc chapter and researched squad size upgrade 27
I have been fighting on automatic for the greatest part of the first 4 levels. My goal was to do 5 provinces in each level and finish level 6 too with all 5.
I already knew level 5 would be harder, so I first check if fighting on automatic is possible. It is, for a few fights in province 1 and 2 of level 5. So I fight the remaining fights manually.
But fighting manually in province 3 of level 5 makes me lose most of the fights. I have no idea what to do to win it.

Example:
View attachment 1335

I tried: 5 x sword acrobat, a combination of sword acrobat with elite archers and/or bud sorceress. Also tried combinations of sword acrobats with the treants and golems. No matter what I tried, I kept losing.

View attachment 1336

This is just an example, so you can see my squad size.

So this is about fighting manually, in the tournaments, in province 3 and up in level 5 (and of course 6 too although I can't reach that).
Fighting in province 1 and 2 of level 5 and 6 is hard, but I can do it. Fighting manually in level 5 province 3 seems impossible to win, at least for me.

How were you able to finish orc's with such small amount of mushroom farms and only RP1?

 

[DeletedUser1247]

you know if they wanted to slow us down why not just reduce the rewards from tourney so you had to do more fights for same reward? while i understand that it was too easy before for some a small re-balancing could have leveled that out. what was one of the more fun aspects was the fighting in tourney/map this has pretty much been eliminated now... now its becoming a game of watching paint dry. log on collect goods/spend kp's etc restart the buildings......rinse repeat and then there is the "indian giving" as in we earned better stronger units in the tech tree and low and behold a update comes along and that time and effort/kp's to get them better units has been eliminated, then we get a AW that gives back a portion of what we used to have to begin with lol..just waiting on the next update that mutes the AW benefit. come on now devs what else to do if we cant fight most battles???? i think adding more battles/reduced rewards and a SLIGHT re-balancing would have achieved your slow these guys down aspect while keeping us in supply of something to do

 

[DeletedUser762]

bad very bad, thank u for ruining his game, so I got an upgrade on treants, whats the point ? no point at all ! u have ruined this game, thank u ! I am sorry but I have to say u are clueless people and all u do is just ruining the game, u do not improve it u ruin it. absolute rubbish this game now and I shall leave it

 

[SoggyShorts]

The advantage of catering over fighting compounds on itself.
If you find you can't win fights because you need more squad upgrades you switch to catering while you wait. Then, once you have gotten a couple more squad upgrades you go back to try fighting, but now you've catered a ring or 2 and you're right back to waiting for even more upgrades. repeat

 

[DeletedUser283]

@Marindor , from my perspective, and judging only through the tournament fights, (I have understood that prinvinces fights are now way out of my league, enemy is twice as big as my troops and I get wiped out every time)
so just tournaments, ok ?
before the change, our troops had well identified bonuses against the enemy (specific or generic) and the enemy had well identified bonuses against us, so it was workable;
now our troops have more specific bonuses, but they are less powerful;
and the enemy have mode specific bonuses, but they are more powerful;
my measure is simple :

-when squad sizes are quite close like in the tournaments, 2 of my squads should be able to down one enemy squad against which they have a bonus (like 2 squads of bud sorcs hitting a squad of steinlings); it does not happen, the steinlings are still alive after being hit twice in a row;

-under similar conditions (squad sizes about the same), 1 of my squads should survive an attack from 2 enemy squads that have no specific bonus against it (like 2 squads of enchantresses attacking 1 squad of bud sorceresses); it does not happen either : my sorceress squad dies under the attack - not mentionning that as I had to move the sorcs squad forward to attack the steinling that has lower priority, it now stands in the middle of the battlefield and eveyone is focusing it, bright move, devs !

my conlcusion : our bonuses have been nerfed to the point where they are useless, enemy bonuses have been pushed up to the point where they are too powerful, and fight is totally out of balance starting on lower levels.

as I wrote in the "innogames TV october episode" thread :

tournament, province 1, level 6 : 1 fight passed with auto, 2 in manual mode, the rest I had to cater; what kind of a combat system is that ? our units had their bonuses nerfed to a point where they are absolutely inefficient even against the right enemy, and enemy bonuses have been made superior to ours;

 

[DeletedUser762]

yeah like squad upgrade is going to make any difference. they have nerfed the whole battle, it doesn't matter about a squad upgrade. ok, let me tell u I am doing squad 26 next c if it helps to kill that half of the province that I started b4 they messed about. I still cannot do it. trying various combo but no use, they don't want me to do it, so fine!!!!

 

[Dony]

yeah like squad upgrade is going to make any difference. they have nerfed the whole battle, it doesn't matter about a squad upgrade. ok, let me tell u I am doing squad 26 next c if it helps to kill that half of the province that I started b4 they messed about. I still cannot do it. trying various combo but no use, they don't want me to do it, so fine!!!!

and what is enemy squad size? quite important

 

[Marindor]

@Philplessis : For specific scenarios, please provide us with the battle data as I requested in this post, so we can forward that situation to our development team for further investigation.

 

[DeletedUser762]

and what is enemy squad size? quite important

who knows what the enemy size, I don't care any more, its no fun, and doesn't make any difference. even with my size it doesn't matter, cause of cause u need to think, like ino making you to.... some stupid tactics, that don't work anyway.

 

[DeletedUser1327]

after 3 weeks no battle on map I tried battle day, and again a major loss. So no changes by inno in fighting on map. I'm courios in data of inno regarding battles on map. How many battles before the change and wins/loss and how many battles after changes and win/loss. I won't play this game anymore if no changes will take place. I'm almost and of tech so when I can't fight on map anymore and don't see a reason to play longer elvenar