Debuffs in fights got changed?

[Deleted User - 95013]

First of all - hi Betaforum.
I am pretty sure the calculation with buffs and debuffs got changed. I know some clever people are reading here, so maybe you can help me confirm this or debunk it. The new calculation for lets say 70% dmgreduction + 40% increased dmg debuff is now 0.3*1.4=0.42. (human priests against dogs for example) The unit does 42% dmg now or 58% dmreduction is still left. The calculation before was some elvenar magic, but without going into the details, I think it was 98% dmg or 2% dmgrecution left in this example. I hope you can help me.

 

[Marindor]

Welcome to Beta, @Killy ! Fairly recently this bug has been fixed. Could that have something to do with it?

 

[Kersepitje]

First of all - hi Betaforum.
I am pretty sure the calculation with buffs and debuffs got changed. I know some clever people are reading here, so maybe you can help me confirm this or debunk it. The new calculation for lets say 70% dmgreduction + 40% increased dmg debuff is now 0.3*1.4=0.42. (human priests against dogs for example) The unit does 42% dmg now or 58% dmreduction is still left. The calculation before was some elvenar magic, but without going into the details, I think it was 98% dmg or 2% dmgrecution left in this example. I hope you can help me.

Im not really sure what numbers you are getting and what numbers you are expecting, right now. But i can give you example of how it should work (pre-fix of this bug):

for example priest vs furious hellhound:
hellhound has +70%defense against mages so its defense is 170 instead of 100.
Now the priest does -30% debuff against that hellhound, so of that 170 defense it loses 68 defense.
In result after the debuff the hellhound now has a 170-68=102 = +2% defense left.

 

[Deleted User - 95013]

for example priest vs furious hellhound:
hellhound has +70%defense against mages so its defense is 170 instead of 100.
Now the priest does -30% debuff against that hellhound, so of that 170 defense it loses 68 defense.
In result after the debuff the hellhound now has a 170-68=102 = +2% defense left.

Exactly, that is what I am used to. I started a fight to show an example, instead of dogs it is a mistwalker, with the same 70% defense.

First attack -70% and then the second attack still has -58% like in the equation in my first post. I play on the german server, but I assume it is the same math on all servers?

@Marindor I am not sure if it has something to do with the mentioned bug or maybe the fix of it.

Edit: The way it works now is the intended (fixed) way and the last 2 or 3 years I played it was "bugged"? I hope that is the right understanding.

 

[Dony]

I just hope they will officially announce this change in release notes and not trying pretend that nothing has changed.
If nothing it just proves that INNO admits that their damage reduction formula was crap, and now they are moving to the one which whole world is using for decades.
I am not surprised, i did reported this 5 years ago and it took them only 5 years to realize it was not wise decision, especially now with all buffs from buildings and 4* units.
If this is the only change than i am afraid that it will make fights harder for many players.
That reported bug had nothing to do with debuffs, its different calculation then this change

 

[Dony]

Frog Prince vs Devilish Enchantress

Base damage of my Frog (no buffs): min possible - max possible: 122791 - 166129
First hit against Enchantress with 70% damage reduction: min possible - max possible: 36838 - 49839
Second hit against Enchantress with 70% damage reduction and 30% defense reduction before the nerf: 99461 - 134565
Second hit against Enchantress with 70% damage reduction and 30% defense reduction after the nerf: 47889 - 64791
Best outcome of second hit before the nerf: lowest first roll vs highest second roll: 36838 vs 134565: 365%
Worst outcome of second hit before the nerf: highest first roll vs lowest second roll: 49839 vs 99461: 199%
Best outcome of second hit after the nerf: lowest first roll vs highest second roll: 36838 vs 64791: 175%
Worst outcome of second hit after the nerf: highest first roll vs lowest second roll: 49839 vs 47889: 96%

Images after the nerf
first hit

second hit

Images before the nerf from my videos posted here on the forums
First hit

second hit

This nerf, bug fix, rebalance, overhaul, call it however you want, will affect mainly average players in first 8 provinces without buffs (aws,buildings,phoenix) because counter units will live longer and do more damage to your units
And second group is high end players where killing counter units will takes them more then double amount of hits compared to before (which will lead to enemy counter units reaching your units and doing damage whereas before they died before doing that)
Obviously huge nerf for manual combat where it will take much more time to finish encounters

 

[FieryArien]

Is this already on live servers as well? I play on the EN (and DE) server and got weird losses. But being the app player, I usually blame the unknown horrible terrain, because I have absolutely no way to “debug a fight”.

Spoiler: Most recent loss

8th province, 5th star, 10298 vs my 8623, Fire Phoenix fed +50% damage, LR damage from Needles +16%. I chose Rangers for their, well, range ...

It isn’t the most favorable setup, I guess, but my memory tells me that I used to win such fights (with more or less losses depending on the terrain).
At the end my troops were dead and the group of thieves was still standing, only half of them dead. I won’t run it again to get a screenshot.

 

[Kersepitje]

Is this already on live servers as well? I play on the EN (and DE) server and got weird losses. But being the app player, I usually blame the unknown horrible terrain, because I have absolutely no way to “debug a fight”.

Spoiler: Most recent loss

8th province, 5th star, 10298 vs my 8623, Fire Phoenix fed +50% damage, LR damage from Needles +16%. I chose Rangers for their, well, range ...
View attachment 9005
It isn’t the most favorable setup, I guess, but my memory tells me that I used to win such fights (with more or less losses depending on the terrain).
At the end my troops were dead and the group of thieves was still standing, only half of them dead. I won’t run it again to get a screenshot.

Yes it is already on the live servers, from what I have heard, this bugfix was implemented about 5 weeks ago on beta, which means its already in the versions that are on the live servers.

 

[FieryArien]

Yes it is already on the live servers, from what I have heard, this bugfix was implemented about 5 weeks ago on beta, which means its already in the versions that are on the live servers.

Thanks for confirmation. I used o lot of buff buildings on live servers lately, so it wasn’t really possible for me to notice the impact of this change earlier than in this tournament.

It’s quite a game changer to be honest ...

 

[Dony]

Yes it is already on the live servers, from what I have heard, this bugfix was implemented about 5 weeks ago on beta, which means its already in the versions that are on the live servers.

sadly this bug fix has nothing to do with this change
because
1. that bug could never occur on scenario 5vs5, only in scenario 5v6, 5v7 and 5v8 and as you can imagine, current tournaments use only 5vs5 scenarios
2. that bug could occur on first hit where there are no debuffs on the enemy, in this bug can not occur on first hit, can occur only on second hit on a unit with defense reduction debuff on it
and i could continue

 

[The Fairy]

Sorry for asking stupid questions, but I don't understand what this means? What is buff and debuff? Does it mean that my fire phoenix/MM/Needles/.../DA/UUU/ELU/MMM are now less efficient? (I autofight only if that makes a difference.)

 

[maxiqbert]

no, the buff debuffs are the spell effects after a hit