PrimroseSylvia
Well-Known Member
Task asks to collect OR use entchantments; it's not correct because you can collect AND/OR use them to progress.
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Text Condition "OR" on event quest n. 45
- Thread starter PrimroseSylvia
- Start date
TimeMachine
Well-Known Member
You can find that number in the Threadtitle - It is Number 45. 
Katwick
Active Member
Were it an Exclusive Or then yeah. Only one of the several conditions.Task asks to collect OR use entchantments; it's not correct because you can collect AND/OR use them to progress.
But a OR condition is satisfied by one or more of multiple conditions, and is inclusive of AND which requires all of them.
PrimroseSylvia
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure having undestand what you mean, but task condition should be AND/OR, neither OR nor AND, because OR means that you have only one option to choose between collecting or (indeed) using spells, and AND won't be fully corrected.
Katwick
Active Member
Vernacular English is pretty sloppy regarding logical conditions. Stated precisely:
Edit by Jerry- it was more than max size, check rule 6 in forum rules.
- OR means Any or All of the several choices, so at least one of them must be True for the test to be True
- Exclusive Or means Only One of the several choices may be True. None and Many are both False conditions
- AND means that ALL of the several conditions must be True for the test itself to be true
Edit by Jerry- it was more than max size, check rule 6 in forum rules.
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Katwick
Active Member
Which merely illustrates my point:
Either This or That (which implies but not both) would be an Exclusive Or.
PrimroseSylvia
Well-Known Member
You are forgetting that all those quests has to be translated in other languages, and not all of them have the same rules as "vernacular english"; in italian, OR means that you must meet only ONE of proposed tasks, while AND means that you must meet every proposed tasks. So, AND/OR includes all possible variables.
And that's why AND/OR has been used until now.
But, as we have already seen, new devs often rephrase tasks (with not-so-good results).
And that's why AND/OR has been used until now.
But, as we have already seen, new devs often rephrase tasks (with not-so-good results).
Katwick
Active Member
How deep do you want to dig the hole? I've yet to see a quest condition that required other than One or More of the indicated Actions.
The base Reality is that common experience, and therefore vernacular language, is pretty fuzzy when dealing with logic and statistics, but computers are literal-minded beasts.
For example, if somebody asks,
"Do you want Soup or Salad?"
"YES" will just get you a dirty look.
If we want to bridge the gap, I'd suggest "One or More of," followed by the conditions in that group.
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Karvest
Well-Known Member
IIRC there are no more quests which have "OR" in text, but count mentioned things separately, which was the main problem with all this OR vs AND/OR drama. Any OR now means that it will sum everything, for example on screenshot from first post - you can collect 3 enchantments + use 3 enchantments and get quest done.
It's not "(collect x6) or (use x6)", but "(collect or use) x6". It was hard to distinguish these two things in the past due to different translations, but now there should be only one option for such quests - second. First option would appear only as different quests like this:
Correct me if I'm wrong.
It's not "(collect x6) or (use x6)", but "(collect or use) x6". It was hard to distinguish these two things in the past due to different translations, but now there should be only one option for such quests - second. First option would appear only as different quests like this:
Correct me if I'm wrong.
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PrimroseSylvia
Well-Known Member
Katwick
Active Member
Signifying nothing:
NEVER ODD OR EVEN is a palindrome.
If you want to dive into the deep end of the pool, you can get into bitwise operators, parity, check sums, and hash codes.
NEVER ODD OR EVEN is a palindrome.
If you want to dive into the deep end of the pool, you can get into bitwise operators, parity, check sums, and hash codes.
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PrimroseSylvia
Well-Known Member
Well, it seems to me that YOU are digging a very deep hole... We ALL have understand your point of view
Dorfl the Clay
Well-Known Member
Seems like this discussion is no longer about the text in the game but about wanting to be right...
It's about both really. It's important that the language used in game, especially in quests is as clear and unambiguous as possible. However it would be helpful if folk could stick to the actual topic of the thread, which is of course about the best wording for the quest
Enevhar Aldarion
Well-Known Member
The problem with this wording in the quests is that in past events OR meant only one or the other. But now in this event, and maybe the previous one, OR means any combination of both. Because of this, whenever I see OR, I automatically do one or the other and don't even try for a mix, because in the past that didn't work. So now it is just confusing.
Karvest
Well-Known Member
For my english "OR" is "any combination", as well as in translation to my native language used ingame. And it was confusing back when it was not "any combination" (especially when you can't say which part is going to be fulfilled by looking at partially done quest), and now it's ok. Inno made a good job visualizing quest conditions to separate (collect or use) x6 from (collect x6) or (use x6).
For those languages where "OR" means something else there should be just another translation.
For those languages where "OR" means something else there should be just another translation.
Dorfl the Clay
Well-Known Member
My problem is that within the same adventure OR + AND/OR are used meaning the same thing but also have the different meanings.. That's what's really confusing! I don't care about which grammatically is the right or wrong one, as long as it is clear and consistent!