Discussion Chapter 17 - The Traders of Unur

[palmira]

And does anyone know how much will we be punished in the tourney and spire for doing this chapter? Is it around 20% as in chapter XVI? I will delay research until I know for sure how much because otherwise it will be a suicide to advance...

 

[SoggyShorts]

I noticed you switched back from several researches which “granted 1 level to each T2 manufactory” to again 1 research per 1 type of manufactory (all upgrade levels at once).

Yeah, higher costs in spire and tourney...

The easy fix to satisfy both issues is to replace the 3 techs:

Current mandatory techs:

Unlock 3 levels of gems​

Unlock 3 levels of Elixir​

Unlock 3 levels of Dust​

New techs:

Unlock one level of Gems&Dust&Elixir​

Unlock another level of each​

Unlock another level of each​

​

One thing I've always thought was incredibly wasted was Elvenar artwork for Max level -1 and Max level -2 buildings.
Especially with timer instants, those upgrades and their artwork last a whole 5 seconds.

 

[Pauly7]

Hopefully, it's still viable to have a city with set buildings, otherwise, I'm gone again- this time likely for good.
A city with row upon row of inefficient factories and workshops identical to every other city is not something I'm interested in.

I've said it a couple of times already today, but I am never going to change my city into one with neat rows of max level residences and workshops. I play the game for the aesthetic point of view of trying to make a city look the way I like it. I also play because I have an interest in doing better and better in tournaments. If I have to change either of those things then I will probably be gone too.

 

[CrazyWizard]

Wow many positive comments,

It starts being a trend, where is the game going?
How one change can nuke an entire game.

 

[Aeva]

I guess I will stop after the Frogprince is researched Or not...

 

[DeletedUser332]

Pretty underwhelmed by the new AWs. Story quests are finite and there won't be any available by the time the AWs are unlocked, so much like the Vortex of Storage this is pretty useless for a late-game AW. Feels even worse when factoring in that the more recent AWs have been adjusted to be far more expensive relative to AWs obtained earlier in the game, which is probably due to Inno looking at data from push accounts and seeing that those players are running out of AWs to spend KP on, even though normal players will never reach that point (especially if new AWs continue to be more and more expensive).

Having a level 5 Magic Academy, clearing the Spire every week, and/or having Moonstone Library sets in the city makes Combining Catalysts pretty unimportant as well, and it's likely that anyone able to build this AW meets at least one of these criteria. Nevermind that while it's possible to avoid, it almost always costs some number of CCs to craft enough to open the Mystical Object in the first place and it's like...what's the point of this small 'refund'? How about RRs when opening the Mystical Object instead? CCs just aren't needed.

The most disappointing thing to me though is another chapter with no military (unit) upgrades at all. Does Inno really have no ideas for how to continue military advancement now that all units are 'maxed out' at 3 stars? Is that really the limit of their imagination?

On the whole though, this whole chapter seems to make it plain that these limited systems that the devs designed have reached their end and Inno needs to come up with something significant before the game starts to stagnate. Having a max of 3 levels for each unit looked good, until players hit that final level for each of them. Sentient goods seemed cool, until we were able to produce them in all of our factories. Now, all of these systems are 'maxed out' and new stuff needs to be introduced to keep things moving. I want to see new units and/or more upgrades for the units we have. I want to see new goods for boost+2, to make use of the factories that late-game players currently have no boost for. What I don't want to see is this stuff dragged out needlessly just to allow the devs to stall as much as possible with bringing actual interesting content to the game. The settlement stuff is always interesting to me, but if the rest of the city is going to languish with nothing besides simple building upgrades, I don't really think that's good enough. The city comes first!

EDIT: Oh, and having to choose which resource to produce in the Trader sounds more like a bottleneck than anything else. I'm pretty sure both resources are going to be extremely important in the chapter, to the point where you're definitely going to WANT to produce both at once, but since you can only produce one, you're going to be stuck waiting either way. I guess at least there're other ways to acquire seeds such that it might be possible to avoid producing them in the Trader and still make it through, but this really seems like it isn't going to be balanced in any way other than players will be stuck waiting for these resources no matter what.

 

[CrazyWizard]

Pretty underwhelmed by the new AWs. Story quests are finite and there won't be any available by the time the AWs are unlocked, so much like the Vortex of Storage this is pretty useless for a late-game AW. Feels even worse when factoring in that the more recent AWs have been adjusted to be far more expensive relative to AWs obtained earlier in the game, which is probably due to Inno looking at data from push accounts and seeing that those players are running out of AWs to spend KP on, even though normal players will never reach that point (especially if new AWs continue to be more and more expensive).

While I agree that the average player would never reach that stage in a meaningfull time period, I disagree that it's all pushers.
You do not need to push to max out all your wonders.

More than 1 way leads to rome. So I like to point out the misconception that it's all(ways) about pushing.

 

[PaNonymeB]

Unurium production based on active population and required culture : this greatly favorizes ranking-oriented cities, as they're the asme parameters used in ranking points. We already had the chapter 16 factory upgrades needing lots of pop and culture and hence making the factory less efficient but better ranking-wise. Also, no unit upgrades in chapter 16-17 to help fighting deeper in the new tournament, and barracks upgrades that give a lower increase in production than the increase in tournament/spire costs from doing these chapters. The expansions unlocked in these chapters don't help with tournament and Spire as well as costsare proportional to the size of your city. So the message is clear :
if you don't play ranking, stop at chapter 15. That's a reason why I decided to move my focus to ranking.

 

[Jammin]

Question to those who venture into the chapter. Can you upgrade magical buildings with blueprint after researching the scout or do you need the first residential building research? The same with magic workshops?

Edit: One more question, is it possible to teleport the trading center?

 

[DeletedUser2561]

This may be of little concern but ... Elvenar and Embassies streets have been cut to a third of their previous gold/supplies cost, and require some standard goods instead.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Edit: One more question, is it possible to teleport the trading center?

You cannot teleport anything that has a limit on how many you can have in your city.

 

[DeletedUser1707]

Sorry, these people look despicable and dishonest, I don't want to deal with them. Do not want them in my city. I'll wait for the next chapter,

 

[Jammin]

I would like to write something positive, but I'm sorry it doesn't work.
what I like: nothing, oki maybe the graphics of the buildings are always very pretty, INNO is really good at that

Most players play a new chapter for 3 reasons.
First, to become militarily stronger. Chapter 17 has nothing of relevance in this direction:
2. City expansions, with the inclusion of these in the calculation of the base troop size, INN0 screwed it up for us. The players want to store expansions and not place more.
3. New wonders, let's take a look at them.

Dragon Ark: Delivers Awakened Goods and Combination Triggers.
Nobody after Chapter 15 needs these tiny amounts of scrap, especially not if there are certain conditions to do so. Is it actually clear to INNO how much of it you get from one factory with an MM on it? and the combination trigger problem has surely been solved by everyone in Chapter 15.
I already have 700+ and the academy is every day on fire.
Oracle of Fortune: Awakened Goods again and 1 RR a week ... WOW! For all that, should we scrap our tournament and tower performance?
There is nothing in this chapter that offsets or justifies the increase in base troop size

I don't know, I don't see an optimistic future for this game, especially its content like the tower or tournament. These will no longer be relevant over time, what then? A lot is going wrong here... Maybe I am expecting too much?

 

[Deleted User - 81190]

If you haven't seen it yet:

https://minmaxgame.com/elvenar-chapter-17-research-preview/
https://minmaxgame.com/elvenar-chapter-17-production-preview/

 

[Lovec Krys]

@Jammin No, magic buildings requires research. Yesterday it seemed it was upgradable right away, but it was probably a bug.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

@Jammin No, magic buildings requires research. Yesterday it seemed it was upgradable right away, but it was probably a bug.

Hopefully a bug, considering a few months ago they specifically went back and adjusted all the chapters to be the same and unlock the next level of the Magic buildings as soon as you finish the first research of the chapter. Though I think I remember there was one chapter they forgot to adjust for this and I cannot remember which one now.

 

[SoggyShorts]

While I agree that the average player would never reach that stage in a meaningfull time period, I disagree that it's all pushers.
You do not need to push to max out all your wonders.

More than 1 way leads to rome. So I like to point out the misconception that it's all(ways) about pushing.

LoL, it's not you Crazy wiz, but 98%(?) of max wonder players are indeed pushers. Almost no one spends 1,000s of hours hunting down wonder chests.
98% is a guess, but if I was told that there are 20 legit players on the planet with max level wonders who never used a push account I'd call BS.

 

[Heymrdiedier]

EDIT: Oh, and having to choose which resource to produce in the Trader sounds more like a bottleneck than anything else. I'm pretty sure both resources are going to be extremely important in the chapter, to the point where you're definitely going to WANT to produce both at once, but since you can only produce one, you're going to be stuck waiting either way. I guess at least there're other ways to acquire seeds such that it might be possible to avoid producing them in the Trader and still make it through, but this really seems like it isn't going to be balanced in any way other than players will be stuck waiting for these resources no matter what.

my guess about this. Unurium will be what is needed in the next chapters to produce T7 T8 and T9.
Since you have to choose between unurium and seeds, I'm guessing that T7 will decay into T4 which again decays in T1, and same for the other things. That way you don't really need seeds anymore (except for some upgrades) and can just always go for the unurium.

LoL, it's not you Crazy wiz, but 98%(?) of max wonder players are indeed pushers. Almost no one spends 1,000s of hours hunting down wonder chests.
98% is a guess, but if I was told that there are 20 legit players on the planet with max level wonders who never used a push account I'd call BS.

are there even 20 players who have all wonders max level? Even for pushers it takes a while i think.
Also some people like to use diamonds to rush though everything, whole chapters sometimes, whole wonderupgrades some other times. So maybe inno keeps adding wonders and wonderlevels just for those big spending players?

 

[Dony]

Since you have to choose between unurium and seeds, I'm guessing that T7 will decay into T4 which again decays in T1, and same for the other things.

Or they can make prerequisities to be T4+unurium for T7 and that way you need seeds+T(1-3)+T(4-6)+unurium to get T(7-9)

That way you don't really need seeds anymore (except for some upgrades) and can just always go for the unurium.

Unless you are a pacifist and you have no army and do whole spire as negotiating, then you need tons of seeds + tons of unurium (most likely in spire in chapter 18) aswell, then tons of T4-T9, and we all know how negotiating increases each chapter now
in other words, negotiators are completely screwed up in coming years

 

[ErestorX]

And does anyone know how much will we be punished in the tourney and spire for doing this chapter? Is it around 20% as in chapter XVI?

It is approximately 15%.