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Discussion Chapter 17 - The Traders of Unur

Deleted User - 81190

Guest
And why exactly PPs shouldn't be counted on? It is a part of the game, and was for quite a while I must add. I also hear consistent complaints about PPs coming out of wazoo for the end gamers, so here is an opportunity to use some fraction of that, and this is a bad thing?

If you don't have enough PPs in Chapter 17, you're doing it wrong. The opportunities are clearly there. If someone doesn't play the Spire for whatever reason at that stage, doesn't indicate a problem with chapter design. There are questions about C17 design, but ability to produce elvenarin is not one of them.
 

iDavis

Well-Known Member
Not enough PPs in ch17 doesn´t necessary mean that player is doing it wrong, this might be a huge part of non-endtech player base that aren´t waiting at the end of research tree on regular basis as some of us do. If a player climbs the chapters without hitting the last one at some time, I can believe he runs out of PPs at some point (and then I would consider PP rewards distribution to be the good one, from game design aspect (although it´s hard for me to believe it, with thousands of % in inventory..)).

So those players that reach this chapter after us, might have a difficult times, but that can be partially compensated by having more sources for unurium (which is a new resource at the moment, so there isn´t one single, for example event building producing unurium and that might be different for next players). It´s not exactly the same to compare these two, but some compensation feeling might be on a place..
 

Deleted User - 81190

Guest
Not enough PPs in ch17 doesn´t necessary mean that player is doing it wrong, this might be a huge part of non-endtech player base that aren´t waiting at the end of research tree on regular basis as some of us do. If a player climbs the chapters without hitting the last one at some time, I can believe he runs out of PPs at some point (and then I would consider PP rewards distribution to be the good one, from game design aspect (although it´s hard for me to believe it, with thousands of % in inventory..)).
I am one of these players who did chapters back-to-back, with only full gap in between C16 and C17. Here is how my stash looks like:
PPs.png

Even if you remove C16-C17 gap (between the yellow marker and second red marker), there is way more than enough PPs to take care of C17. I expect to be net positive on PPs for the rest of the chapter.

And keep in mind, that massive PPs amounts were only available for what, about a year? I hardly had any PPs until double digit chapters. So anyone who is starting to play today would be able to accumulate way more PPs than people who are currently in the end game. I was never receiving 50% PPs in chapters 3-4.
 

Deleted User - 81190

Guest
New players won't receive it too, they will get 100% supplies instead.
Well, they'll start getting PPs from chapter 6 (if the new setup stays). Still way earlier than the current end game players did.
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
If your PPs income is low (1st floor of Spire only f.e.) and your expenditures are bigger than your income, you'll run out eventualy (and that can happen in any chapter you use them).

My main point about this is, that players shouldn't be forced to use PPs/Time boosters or having high level Bee just to be able to keep production in Flag ships (and where is the E0 for research?).
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
You are not forced to keep that production up at all, at small ships stage you can even stop producing anything in flagships.
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
@Karvest And that leaves 3 huge building just for connecting small/large ships - so 3 huge useless buildings just to take player's place for several months.
But this is more about cities where owners have only large ships + few or none small ships, because they didn't want or couldn't teleport (f.e. few teleports only) half of their cities to build 50+ small ships.
Those who can, are also the ones with large stocks of PPs, so they can just spam PPs without creating E0 in Portal (like I do in my main city).
 

Deleted User - 81190

Guest
If your PPs income is low (1st floor of Spire only f.e.) and your expenditures are bigger than your income, you'll run out eventualy (and that can happen in any chapter you use them).
And if you don't put enough goods producers, and your expenditures are more than your income, you will eventually run out of goods. What is your point? The game gives you the opportunities to do both sustainably, if you don't use it (e.g. don't play the Spire), then it's on you.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
Questlist/order is dumb. There is a quest to build one of the new culture and with so much space used up leaving it going to be a strong choice and then you have collect 20,000 antique artifacts right after it, and it is highly likely to be showing up after people no longer need the artifacts and with a net collection of 8 per small ship, that's 2500 collections that have missed the boat because of this. 20,000 is insane given that it

Like I said, leaving a quest that requires to fit in a building that doesn't fit is going to be a strong choice and then a massive amount of antique artifacts right after it and no decline on either.

Requiring building stupid buildings that aren't wanted will just be deleted is a dumb quest and these quests should simply come with a decline button. This is exactly what happens I believe in the fairies chapter where if you decide to wait to build a building that you have no room for, don't want and will just delete, you can't finish the quests without practically redoing the guest race and then when you write elvenar's customer aggravation team, they tell you that you played it wrong rather than designing it so the quests don't block you or leave with having to repeat so much because of poor quest planning and design.
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
@edeba It's not because we play it wrong, but because they design it wrong. That's why so many players were several chapters behind with quests, before the update made them declinable (not worth the extra effort for such rewards), and why so many players are just waiting for new chapter to decline quests in current chapter.
Of course, I ended as one of them (again, since Woodelves I wasn't able to finish a single quest line, and this will continue in next chapters as well (probably/for sure if they don't change the quest style)).
 

palmira

Well-Known Member
I finished the questline with no problems, here and live,I knew the quests in advance so it was just a matter of planning (and a lot of TT spells). Actually, this one was pretty on line with the race progress, much better then previous ones - I remember the elementals and the stupid quest to produce 20 toolboxes, I was almost at the end of the race when I managed to do it and had to collect a lot of useless minerals after that
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
If your PPs income is low (1st floor of Spire only f.e.) and your expenditures are bigger than your income, you'll run out eventualy (and that can happen in any chapter you use them).

My main point about this is, that players shouldn't be forced to use PPs/Time boosters or having high level Bee just to be able to keep production in Flag ships (and where is the E0 for research?).
And if you don't put enough goods producers, and your expenditures are more than your income, you will eventually run out of goods. What is your point? The game gives you the opportunities to do both sustainably, if you don't use it (e.g. don't play the Spire), then it's on you.

Got my Trading Center to level 4 finally, so here is what my numbers look like now. I now produce 6200 E0 per two-hour production and my six-hour productions in the flagships are still 6100 E0. So instead of a deficit every six hours, I now have a tiny surplus of 300 E0 every six hours. But, of course, that is only because of my level 16 BTG. A few levels lower and I am sure I would still be running at a deficit.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
@edeba It's not because we play it wrong, but because they design it wrong. That's why so many players were several chapters behind with quests, before the update made them declinable (not worth the extra effort for such rewards), and why so many players are just waiting for new chapter to decline quests in current chapter.
Of course, I ended as one of them (again, since Woodelves I wasn't able to finish a single quest line, and this will continue in next chapters as well (probably/for sure if they don't change the quest style)).
I know it isn't because we played it wrong, but when I first wrote support about getting stuck years ago they told me it was my fault for playing it wrong. I don't know if it is a cultural thing, but I've found interactions with support pretty shocking which is which is why I referred to them as customer aggravation rather than customer support. They are more different than any other company I've contacted through customer support and you can actually derive the meaning of calling it customer support because those are usually the services you get from said department in other companies. Anyway, I've never seen anything like it in other companies. We are all addicted to our game so I think they get away with shocking disregard for clients. The whole tournament change thing that just stole everything you spent on your game is prime example, and the utter lack of normal empathy and sense of treating others as you would be like to be treated in how they just wrote what clients paid for out of the code.

And I don't think I've played all of any questline since then either, but what I did with portal profits is reduce the space for the guest race and ended up blocked where they required a massive commitment of space for the guest race. This one I actually built the stuff and got past those previous stopper quests to get stuck on a poor planning/organization of quests? I thought I was going to actually get rid of the quest icon.
 
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Deleted User - 81190

Guest
A few levels lower and I am sure I would still be running at a deficit.
Only if you reset flagships on a timer exactly every 6 hours. (Almost) no one would be able to do that. Portal production, on the other hand, is certainly possible to run without any slippage at all. As I mentioned before, with L6 BTG I am running surplus of E0 with my flagship production schedule (which is definitely not 6hx4 a day).
 

LOKINHO

Well-Known Member
Only if you reset flagships on a timer exactly every 6 hours. (Almost) no one would be able to do that. Portal production, on the other hand, is certainly possible to run without any slippage at all. As I mentioned before, with L6 BTG I am running surplus of E0 with my flagship production schedule (which is definitely not 6hx4 a day).
Hello minmax, I have seen your spoiler of chapter 18 ... is the approximate date of arrival known? thanks!
 

Lyra

Member
How does the Oracle of Fortune "magically fill empty nearby chests"? I can't find information on this anywhere. TY.
 
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