Discussion Release Notes version 1.25 + Tournaments rebalancing

[Dhurrin]

@CrazyWizard
I'm active on the forums because the damn game is no fun anymore. And believe me, I'd much rather spend time playing the game than be on the forum.
Apart from that, it's because I'm running multiple accounts in a very low chapter that it's easy to maintain them and doesnt take a lot of time. Twice under 5 minutes a day for each of those.
And I don't see how you think to (manually) fight 5-10 provinces in the 10 minutes you seem to indicate I would need for that in my 2 main cities.

But rest easily, you won't be seeing a lot of me on the forums anymore, nor in the game.
The foul-up with the ripp-off saler was already the last straw for me and I only waited to see if perhaps they would come to their senses and at least make a statement they would consider undoing it.
It's obvious from the statements from mods and devs that's not the case.
Now they -beep- ed up the tourneys. High time to just cut my losses and look for a game that does provide some fun.

 

[ALdbeign]

combat....
i am at 25/30 provinces. my squadsize is 69 (max for chapter 2 human) enemy is 92. I am techlocked until i can cater 4 more provinces, the claim was that people couldn't fight because explored too much, i haven't explored enough to get to the next chapter and i cant fight... explain this please!

 

[Sir Squirrel]

You are correct ALdbeign, you should be able to fight where you are, I feel your pain I just finished chapter 2 last week and ended up having to negotiate to get past it as well. There are lots of others that have said that the fights are not fair at that part of the game, but it seems to be falling on deaf ears, as nothing has been said or done about the fact that fights in the beginning of the game are flawed, and impossible at the moment. Maybe if we scream it a little louder we will be heard. FIGHTS IN THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME ARE TO TOUGH PLEASE FIX THIS!!
Fights in the tourney are pretty tough for lower chapters as well, and catering has not doubled as would be expected, but have increased by 10x, at least in the ones I am facing at the moment. The last tourney cost me 10 or 12 goods an encounter, now they are over 100 goods that is a 10x increase! Not to mention the lack of relics and kp, the rewards are not even as good, (at least for the first round) but cost way more to get. I do realize that before the change that maybe a few to many kp and relics were being given, but now there is barely enough to make anyone want to bother playing them. So far it looks like the wholesaler to me, very high cost and very little return.

 

[Dhurrin]

I agree. My cities in chapter 2 have a hard time fighting to get enough provinces.
It's not only being hugely outnumbered, but also having to face vastly superior units.
End of chapter 2 I have sworddancers 2, archers 1 and treant 1. And that's it. Not realistic to have to face larger armies of units with superior stats.

 

[Dony]

i would like if people who giving feedback about new tournament include where they are in tech tree, how many squad size upgrade they researched (number from army camp tab in barracks), your tournament squad size in province 1 and mats needed to negotiate in province one
so we can make some charts and see where it needs to be improved

 

[Sir Squirrel]

Yeah as soon as you hit the third ring the fights get harder, but we still need 4 or 5 of them provinces to get enough for the chest, to get into the third chapter to get golems. This is where the problem is that I found anyway. They need to rework that some how so those that choose to fight can at least do it while being between the numbers for the chests.
I will add some more info on squad sizes and such for the next round in the tourneys, to late for the first round as it is already done. I can tell you that my squad size is 90 and I had too negotiate the fourth province out, as it was to hard to fight. I only have 4 open to fight in as I am only starting chapter 3.

 

[Dhurrin]

On beta: chapter 2, just finished the sworddance promotion, not even yet started on squadsize upgrade 6 (so also not able to produce treants yet and I only have 16 left from the 150 I got when starting)

 

[DeletedUser1657]

Hmm just checked province 7 round 1 and realised I am up against 3 star monsters I don't even have 3 star (or most 2 star) troops yet as I am at the end of era 4. Did anyone else notice the level of enemy mobs? Are they starting from level 3 right away now or only from certain provinces out? Either way it seems more difficult compared to prior.

 

[DeletedUser607]

I consider the new one to be more inappropriate because the old one was at least... anatomically humanoid in a way that makes her look alive. The new one has various anatomical errors that, all added together, make her look like someone decided "lol I'm going to draw a girl with balloon breasts and no one's going to care that I can't get anatomy right because balloon breasts, and I'm giving her a costume that shows the balloon breasts but manages to cover more of her body than the previous costume, so no one can complain about the balloons because it's technically less revealing!" To me, that feels more egregious than just the revealing costume the previous elf was wearing on an anatomically correct body.

The neckline also draws attention to the fact that her neck is extremely long, because it's so low, and she isn't wearing any form of jewelry higher up on the neck that would break up that line. This is something that actual women with longer than usual necks do, because high collars, chokers, and other similar things look good on them, when they don't look good on women with shorter necks. This elf woman has an even longer neck than ordinary long necked woman, therefore, she needs some form of choker or high collar even more.

Breasts shouldn't LOOK like spheres glued onto a woman's chest... Because they don't in real life, unless the woman got severe surgery to make them look like that >_>

Also as further clothing details go, the design of the bodice and skirt of her outfit draws attention to the fact that they gave her absolutely no definition to her waist and hips. It's a straight line all the way down. Most women have at least some form of curves there. Generally, women who have hardly any waist wear high waisted, empire type dresses, when they're wearing a dress at all, not dresses with detailing around the waist and hips that's meant to draw attention to the narrowness of one's waist, and the fullness of one's hips, when they don't HAVE the curves it's meant to draw the eyes to. A flapper dress would also work for this type of torso.

Her hands, at least, are not outside the possibility for realistic hands, as my hands are actually that tiny. However, they should probably be bigger nonetheless, because everyone who meets me and sees my hands comments on how I must have some deformity to make my hands that small.

And, finally, the shading looks... off. There are dark, DARK green shadows on the underside of her breasts, but then immediately under them, there are light green highlights on her waist. It's just not possible that light would be hitting her waist in those areas when the underside of her breasts is in such deep shadow. The artists need to pick one light source, and stick with it.

..... edit: another problem I have with this new loading screen image is the fact that pointing out the anatomy flaws in the image is causing me to go into a lot more depth about female anatomy than I am accustomed to going into on forums like this, and the fact that this is now on topic and relevant boggles my mind. I'm used to talking about anatomy and things with artist friends, where we're all girls, and use language that I'm now looking back and wondering if it's the best way to post feedback on here, due to how Inno has responded to feedback about questionable imagery and content in the past. How are we supposed to proceed with giving feedback about where the female elf's anatomy just looks wonky?

very interesting posting.

in my opinion, the long neck is okay. she's an elve, not a human painted blue. but the rest of the body is awkward. I would give her longer, thinner arms and smaller boobs (they look like silicon implants, not done properly). furthermore, give her back that intense blue color, she now looks quite pale (giving the impression that she is sick). the hands, and especially the fingers should be longer and skinnier.

I know that these proportions are a bit problematic, but these are elves, I expect them to be at least 2m tall.

 

[Dony]

if the pattern will be same as first rounds then we still need 6 provinces with 6 levels with 25 people in fellowship to get last reward
or 1600 points per member

or 8 provinces @ level 5 x 25
or 11 provinces @ level 4 x 25

province level 1 total gives 30 points = 5x4 + 10
province level 2 total gives 36 points = 6x4 + 12
province level 3 total gives 42 points = 7x4 + 14
province level 4 total gives 48 points = 8x4 +16
province level 5 total gives 54 points = 9x4 + 18
province level 6 total gives 60 points = 10x4 + 20
total 270 points per 1 province

 

[ALdbeign]

I was literally about to post that Dony, all that has changed is the negotiating costs have gone up. And we still have the 16 hour cool down which was the most requested change.

 

[Heymrdiedier]

if the pattern will be same as first rounds then we still need 6 provinces with 6 levels with 25 people in fellowship to get last reward
or 1600 points per member

or 8 provinces @ level 5 x 25
or 11 provinces @ level 4 x 25

province level 1 total gives 30 points = 5x4 + 10
province level 2 total gives 36 points = 6x4 + 12
province level 3 total gives 42 points = 7x4 + 14
province level 4 total gives 48 points = 8x4 +16
province level 5 total gives 54 points = 9x4 + 18
province level 6 total gives 60 points = 10x4 + 20
total 270 points per 1 province

that is completly as expected no? still the same amount of 6 star fights to be done: 150, but now you can also do it with 190 5star provinces.
This is a big improvement compared with the 290 5 star provinces we had to do.
Since the amount of points are quite similar, doing 1 2 or 3 star provinces allready helps alot, compared to what it was before those didnt have any impact

 

[DeletedUser1767]

I would give her longer, thinner arms and smaller boobs (they look like silicon implants, not done properly). furthermore, give her back that intense blue color, she now looks quite pale (giving the impression that she is sick). the hands, and especially the fingers should be longer and skinnier.

She's also got this faint pink flush in her face, which doesn't make sense to me for someone with blue skin, even pale blue skin, and I think her facial features look more human than elven, somehow. Maybe she's meant to be of mixed ancestry, idk. Her upper arms are actually pretty thin already, but yeah, not long enough and the lower arms aren't right.

I think you're dead-on about the colour palette, not just for her skin tones but for the entire picture. The old one was bright, solid primary colours, and it used a similar palette to the rest of the game, so it fit. The new one is all dewy pastels, and it just does not match the rest of the game.

 

[cpickett76]

combat....
i am at 25/30 provinces. my squadsize is 69 (max for chapter 2 human) enemy is 92. I am techlocked until i can cater 4 more provinces, the claim was that people couldn't fight because explored too much, i haven't explored enough to get to the next chapter and i cant fight... explain this please!

@ALdbeign

I'm toward the end of chapter 2 as well and in the same situation. I'm at 29/30 provinces so I haven't over scouted and can't fight either. I was told that's why I couldn't win in my Chapter 5 city in Khel, because I over scouted quite a bit in the beginning of the game because I didn't know and there was no warning. I'm not seeing where this makes a difference in fights on the map because I have kept it where it's supposed to be and am still ridiculously outnumbered.

@Sir Squirrel

Fights in the tourney are pretty tough for lower chapters as well, and catering has not doubled as would be expected, but have increased by 10x, at least in the ones I am facing at the moment. The last tourney cost me 10 or 12 goods an encounter, now they are over 100 goods that is a 10x increase! Not to mention the lack of relics and kp, the rewards are not even as good, (at least for the first round) but cost way more to get. I do realize that before the change that maybe a few to many kp and relics were being given, but now there is barely enough to make anyone want to bother playing them. So far it looks like the wholesaler to me, very high cost and very little return.

This! It's a ridiculous increase for lower level cities that do not have the battle resources yet and are forced to cater. The rewards vs the cost are indeed lacking and do not encourage participation. I can understand if they felt the number of KPs and relics were a bit much and needed to be reduced but this is ridiculous. I can't scout anymore without over scouting and I'm low on steel relics which I need to produce spells. Now, I can't get enough from tournaments to help make up the difference. I am really starting to think they want us to over scout or they just do not want newer players to continue to play. I started this city in Beta1 to see how recent changes to the game affected newer players and I do not see where anything that has been changed helps them or encourages them to continue to play. The exception was the tournaments being fellowship based and being able to collect some extra relics and KPs without over scouting but now that has been taken from them too.

 

[DeletedUser1095]

Its a lot better than the previous one with a plunging neckline to 6 inches below her belly button, looks like she had the long neck then too. The current outfit looked like it had shoulder straps to me or something to hold it up around her neck.

That wouldn't hold anything up, Mykan dear - you're welcome to try it at home if you don't believe me. The previous one with the plunging neckline and the forward-thrusting pelvis was trashy, but she was highly stylized and better proportioned than this new one. That one looked nonhuman; this one looks like a deformed human sprayed blue.
And that inane expression on the current one's face is seriously irritating - please take her away. A nice atmospheric landscape with some classy dragons, birds and trees would be lightyears better. Please.

 

[DeletedUser1721]

very interesting posting.

in my opinion, the long neck is okay. she's an elve, not a human painted blue. but the rest of the body is awkward. I would give her longer, thinner arms and smaller boobs (they look like silicon implants, not done properly). furthermore, give her back that intense blue color, she now looks quite pale (giving the impression that she is sick). the hands, and especially the fingers should be longer and skinnier.

I know that these proportions are a bit problematic, but these are elves, I expect them to be at least 2m tall.

Actually, I would make them bigger if anything, because generally dresses with plunging necklines like this are worn by women with larger breasts, and hers are actually kind of small. What makes them look big is the appalling balloon like shading, which makes them an unnatural shape, not the actual size themselves. Larger, and a more natural shape, would look more realistic for her body type than small and unnaturally shaped.

Edit: and my beta city was able to complete province one, the second time. Barely. Previously it was able to complete the first two provinces, but with the new, tenfold increase in goods cost I have no goods for that... and it used up the goods I was slowly putting towards finishing the last two provinces so I can move on to act 5. This is not an improvement for my elven-ancient-wonders-unlocked-but-can't-get-to-advanced-scouts city. The only advantage is that since I'm research locked because the tournament is eating all my goods so I can't get the provinces to move on in the research, the complete lack of KP rewards isn't hurting as much as it would if I needed the KPs. But I could really use more steel relics... and I'm not getting them. With all the required buildings the devs have shoved in, I don't have ROOM to build a fifth steel manufactory. I don't even have room to build a second magic dust manufactory, and I'm constantly low on magic dust too. I also don't have room for my golden abyss, which I have unlocked. And yet they increased the cost of goods in tournaments ten fold?

This update just fills me with an impending sense of dread. After all my pointing out that my main city's tenfold resource cost increase for tournaments kills my fellowship trying to supply goods so I can progress in tournaments, the devs' "solution" is to make EVERY city's resource cost increase tenfold? It was hard enough managing it with the wholesaler changes when it was just my city and one other in my fellowship! This is going to be impossible!

Why do the devs want to kill this game? I feel like the players care more about this game than the devs do. Mods who were saying that you don't understand why the players feel like the devs are at war with them, this is why. Players pointed out flaws with ONE part of the tournament. Just one. And in the process of fixing that part of the tournament, the devs changed all the other parts, that players didn't say needed fixing, that players were mostly happy with. If anything, the feedback was that catering costs were too high for some cities, but not all. Now catering costs have been raised when no one had a problem with them, kp and relic rewards have been lowered into nothing when no one had a problem with them, but the problem people had that they wanted the devs to fix has been fixed, so now the devs are shocked that people are complaining, because they upset the entire system that wasn't broken to fix the part that was.

Or who knows, maybe the devs are horrible at math, and think that halving the number of encounters while multiplying the number of goods required per encounter by ten equals no change in the cost of goods! If that's the case, can I send them my resume, because they need someone on the team who can tell that (x / 2) * 10 != x. And my comp sci major has certainly covered enough math classes that I can determine that /sarcasm

 

[DeletedUser1247]

this is way too weird most complaining catering cost went higher but mine went way lower appears to me that catering went 2x cheaper while fighting went 2-4 x more losses. i'm thinking a name change from the "tournament" to "the farmers market" is in order, may get rid of my armories and build more goods if this isn't re balanced

 

[DeletedUser1721]

So they made it very hard on new cities to the point that my beta city's progression through the game is at a standstill, but made it easier on your city? That's interesting. Out of curiosity, how many provinces do you have on the map now Miciah?

 

[DeletedUser1657]

if the pattern will be same as first rounds then we still need 6 provinces with 6 levels with 25 people in fellowship to get last reward
or 1600 points per member

I had also come to the same conclusion, was a rather disappointed.

that is completely as expected no? still the same amount of 6 star fights to be done: 150, but now you can also do it with 190 5star provinces.
This is a big improvement compared with the 290 5 star provinces we had to do.
Since the amount of points are quite similar, doing 1 2 or 3 star provinces allready helps alot, compared to what it was before those didnt have any impact

No it isn't as expected, for me at least. Probably took too much hope from the hint from @Muf-Muf. The need for 25 people to do 6x6 provinces was one of the biggest issues. I never believed they would make a big change to the requirement but expected some sort of reduction as I was certain the timer would not be changed. Thank you for pointing out what was changed which is the compactness of points per round, so that at least is something. We will see however with everything else if it makes a difference or is counter balanced by everything else.

My take so far:
Pros:

• Points per round are more compact so greater impact from members who achieve earlier rounds
• Greater variation in rewards for an individual. Trying to figure them all out is a con though
• Fellowship rewards improved timing across reward levels
  • Total rewards are almost identical to prior with 1 less relic and a few extra spells
  • The spread of relics is earlier then previous
  • Spread of KP and runes is greater across but this can be good or bad depending on the level you obtain, generally neutral to good.

Cons:

• Still requires 25 members to go to round 6 in 6 provinces - many people don't even do 5 provinces
• Muf-Muf comment on not needing round 6 was misleading (maybe I misunderstood) but round 6 is definitely needed because if you struggle to get people to go to rounds 4-6 you can bet you ain't going to get them to do 8 provinces especially with escalating costs/losses. Some will, most won't.
• perception of ability to achieve has barely moved while perception of individual rewards is lower (this may change as only early rounds so far), thus less motivation then before for people to participate
• Individual rewards (so far) seem much reduced on KP/relics. The incentive to cater a bit more due to higher returns of boosted goods is greatly reduced
• Cater costs appear to have significantly increased - specific mention of early towns requiring a lot more goods than previously needed
• Losses from fights appear greater thus more difficult for the same reward - This one is tough as it can vary week to week depending on the province and with new enemy units in provinces it will alter difficulty potentially for affected provinces, that impact is currently unknown.

Currently I feel the cons outweigh the pros, continued assessment may alter some cons. Have I missed any pros/cons?

Edit: Changed 8 rounds to 8 provinces. Its 4am Caanna and my brain is not started properly yet

 

[DeletedUser1721]

Wait, there's a round 8? How is it even possible to get to that when there are still 16 hours per round?