DeletedUser1247
Guest
331 should have more but was away from game a few months when the world map was broken.... but they said costs now depend on tech tree not provinces anymore so mine should be most difficult
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Discussion Release Notes version 1.25 + Tournaments rebalancing
- Thread starter Muf-Muf
- Start date
Dony
King of Bugs
provinces
cpickett76
Active Member
So upper level players got a reduction in catering but fighting became that much more difficult while lower level cities like mine got hit with cater costs 10x what they used to be and fighting became slightly easier but not enough to make much of a difference in how far you can get in a tournament? That is strange.
DeletedUser1721
Guest
O_O the thought of going more than two provinces out with these horrible new catering costs, even on my cities that could previously go more than two provinces out, is scary.
Edit: cpickett, you're the other person I was talking about with the increase in catering costs because being far out on the map in my fellowship. At least, I think you are.
I'm wondering if Miciah's catering costs were already higher than a tenfold increase, because I've been noticing my main city's catering costs are ten times higher than people who are at the recommended number of provinces, but my main city is not nearly as far ahead of the curve as Miciah. Perhaps Miciah had a further penalty added onto their resource costs to bring them up more than tenfold. Because my beta city's goods costs definitely increased tenfold.
Edit: cpickett, you're the other person I was talking about with the increase in catering costs because being far out on the map in my fellowship. At least, I think you are.
I'm wondering if Miciah's catering costs were already higher than a tenfold increase, because I've been noticing my main city's catering costs are ten times higher than people who are at the recommended number of provinces, but my main city is not nearly as far ahead of the curve as Miciah. Perhaps Miciah had a further penalty added onto their resource costs to bring them up more than tenfold. Because my beta city's goods costs definitely increased tenfold.
DeletedUser1657
Guest
DeletedUser1247
Guest
i cant access tourney at all now just get stream errors if i get in ill list and example of cost... you can look at tourney leaders now they are not normally in top 10 they are farmers only 4 of us that are usually top 10 are in top 30 that tells you right there what is going on idk what live servers are doing but it is what it is
DeletedUser1135
Guest
I just want to say that the new tournament is too difficult for nothing interesting to win
so it will be without me
so it will be without me
cpickett76
Active Member
Yes, that's me. I didn't know about overscouting when I started playing and took the side quests for relics, scouting, and clearing provinces. By the time I was in the beginning of chapter 2 I had to stop because negotiations required T2 items. I'm at the end of Chapter 2 here, 29/30 provinces and T2 items haven't shown up in provinces yet
The second time it happened was early on in the winter event because of the relics tasks. Because of this, I will never win a fight on the map in Khel. Also, my negotiation costs are higher and it takes some time to clear provinces.
Marindor
Well-Known Member
Hi guys!
Thank you all for your feedback so far. We will certainly check some things you mentioned and in a few days the new InnoGames TV will come out with a bit more explanation on this topic as well for you.
One question I'd like to get more information on: Some of you mention fights becoming harder - Could you explain why exactly? The squad sizes did increase, but the ratios remained the same so you'd "lose" twice the amount of units per battle, but you also have to do only half of the battles so in the end, nothing should be changed there. What exactly are your findings, if you describe the new tournaments as being harder for fighters than before?
Thank you all for your feedback so far. We will certainly check some things you mentioned and in a few days the new InnoGames TV will come out with a bit more explanation on this topic as well for you.
One question I'd like to get more information on: Some of you mention fights becoming harder - Could you explain why exactly? The squad sizes did increase, but the ratios remained the same so you'd "lose" twice the amount of units per battle, but you also have to do only half of the battles so in the end, nothing should be changed there. What exactly are your findings, if you describe the new tournaments as being harder for fighters than before?
DeletedUser
Guest
My squad size has increased 4x, so also 4x more loses not "twice".
DeletedUser1721
Guest
As someone who doesn't fight, but does think she understands what they're talking about, with the lower squad sizes, an attack that would wipe out a fraction of a squad wouldn't wipe out anything, because it was rounded down. So if you had six squads, and lost 1.5 squads, you would have five squads worth of hitting power to hit enemies with because you would only lose one squad. But when you double that, you have twelve squads, and lose 3 squads, and since there's no rounding, you end up with nine squads of hitting power, which is 3/4 the original hitting power, rather than the 5/6 you had with the rounding down of the half a squad. It's not much, but I'm assuming the players who are interested in combat want every edge they can possibly get.
If the "explanation" is going to be simply the devs saying this is "necessary to ensure the game is balanced moving forward" then I have to say, don't even bother putting it in the InnoTV episode. It's at the point where when I hear that, my brain inserts "this is necessary to force you to give us money" because they never offer adequate explanations of what, EXACTLY, about it they're trying to balance, and leave the players to assume that the only thing that's being balanced is diamond sales.
Because seriously. The goods cost for my beta city's tournament participation is so high now that the buildings Inno requires me to place (Magic Academy, Training Grounds) that do nothing for me are interfering with my ability to participate in tournaments, because I can't place more manufactories when my goods cost went through the roof... and I'm worried my fellowship will kick me out for not participating because participating is impossible. This is absolutely not balanced. There is not enough space in my city for it to be balanced, because now tournaments take ten times as many goods, but my space to place buildings to get the goods has not increased, and has in fact been slowly shrunk as Inno releases more new buildings in older chapters.
If their plan was to increase the production of manufactories at some later date, to keep it balanced, my response to that is... um. Multiple words which are not appropriate to this forum, because releasing an update that horribly unbalances things with the promise of a future patch to make it balanced again guarantees that people will quit in response to the unbalancing and not stick around for the rebalancing. That is disgusting. Yes, disgusting. Disgusting is the closest word I can think of to my thoughts on the matter, if the devs announce that this change takes into account future changes that haven't been made yet. It isn't workable. If there's another part that's supposed to work together with this part and it hasn't been released yet, this patch should not be released until the other part can be released with it.
I am completely certain that if there are other patches which counteract the tenfold increase in goods that most people are experiencing, the people on live would be overjoyed to wait multiple weeks for this patch to come out, so it can include the future patches that will fix it, rather than experience this half finished thing as it is now. It jsut doesn't work.
For comparison, my alt city in DWARVES on live has much less than half the catering cost of my beta alt city (fifty of a resource maximum in each encounter compared to 300 maximum in the first province, first round)! The beta alt city is in ACT FOUR.
If the "explanation" is going to be simply the devs saying this is "necessary to ensure the game is balanced moving forward" then I have to say, don't even bother putting it in the InnoTV episode. It's at the point where when I hear that, my brain inserts "this is necessary to force you to give us money" because they never offer adequate explanations of what, EXACTLY, about it they're trying to balance, and leave the players to assume that the only thing that's being balanced is diamond sales.
Because seriously. The goods cost for my beta city's tournament participation is so high now that the buildings Inno requires me to place (Magic Academy, Training Grounds) that do nothing for me are interfering with my ability to participate in tournaments, because I can't place more manufactories when my goods cost went through the roof... and I'm worried my fellowship will kick me out for not participating because participating is impossible. This is absolutely not balanced. There is not enough space in my city for it to be balanced, because now tournaments take ten times as many goods, but my space to place buildings to get the goods has not increased, and has in fact been slowly shrunk as Inno releases more new buildings in older chapters.
If their plan was to increase the production of manufactories at some later date, to keep it balanced, my response to that is... um. Multiple words which are not appropriate to this forum, because releasing an update that horribly unbalances things with the promise of a future patch to make it balanced again guarantees that people will quit in response to the unbalancing and not stick around for the rebalancing. That is disgusting. Yes, disgusting. Disgusting is the closest word I can think of to my thoughts on the matter, if the devs announce that this change takes into account future changes that haven't been made yet. It isn't workable. If there's another part that's supposed to work together with this part and it hasn't been released yet, this patch should not be released until the other part can be released with it.
I am completely certain that if there are other patches which counteract the tenfold increase in goods that most people are experiencing, the people on live would be overjoyed to wait multiple weeks for this patch to come out, so it can include the future patches that will fix it, rather than experience this half finished thing as it is now. It jsut doesn't work.
For comparison, my alt city in DWARVES on live has much less than half the catering cost of my beta alt city (fifty of a resource maximum in each encounter compared to 300 maximum in the first province, first round)! The beta alt city is in ACT FOUR.
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Marindor
Well-Known Member
This has nothing to do with money guys. This is a reaction on your feedback, so please stop the conspiracy theories for now and keep focussed on the actual subject You wanted less time consuming tournaments, less "boring", more variation in rewards, blueprints easier obtainable... This is how that feedback is processed so let's now focus on what could be improved upon that, instead of starting the whole "Inno just wants to make more money" discussion, which is actually not leading us to improving. Thank you for your understanding
Now back on the actual feedback about the tournaments: The feeling that the fights became harder, does that indeed come from the rounding differences?
You wanted less time consuming tournaments, less "boring", more variation in rewards, blueprints easier obtainable... This is how that feedback is processed so let's now focus on what could be improved upon that, instead of starting the whole "Inno just wants to make more money" discussion, which is actually not leading us to improving. Thank you for your understanding Now back on the actual feedback about the tournaments: The feeling that the fights became harder, does that indeed come from the rounding differences?
DeletedUser1877
Guest
I can't say as to the fights, I rethought and used a dif strategy, so can't compare to previous fights. I will say tha the cater costs see to have skyrocketted. I could not afford to cater the 3rd prov, 1st round.
DeletedUser1657
Guest
The theory of double squads, double losses, all the same is good. Practice...still figuring it out.
One thing I noticed is I am coming up against 3 star enemy squads in the first round (noted in province 7). I don't recall hitting these guys until closer to round 3 or 4. My town is at the end of era 4 (not yet era 5) and it only has 1 and 2 star troops available to it.
Another thing people have noted is larger squad sizes usually means larger losses and it isn't double size equals double losses but more than double losses. This is really hard for us to provide definitive information on as no 2 fights are the same so trying to get good comparison will not be easy.
My take is you achieved less boring and more variation in rewards. While blueprints are theoretically easier due to more compact points per round there (currently) appears to be less rewards to an individual reducing incentive to participate and this counters easy achieve. Which one is stronger is yet to be seen. The perceived (or actual) harder fights and catering also will have a negative effect on perception and thus participation
I felt one of the issues raised was needing 25 people to do 6 provinces to round 6 and this really does not feel like it has been address at all. While not stated as a "no" the lack of change in that area still leaves certainly indicates a "no". Therefore this still remains as an issue in the revised system.
@Marindor People have also stated double catering costs have not exactly turned out that way especially for early era towns, did you need more information on this? What sort of information?
Marindor
Well-Known Member
For now that's not yet needed. We have now forwarded this feedback so let's wait for our Game Team to dive into that. Should they want more info, I'll let you know here. Thanks for your help!
Sir Squirrel
Well-Known Member
In the first province, second round, the enemy has the same squad size as me, 6 to 6, I don't think this happened so early before. If we are at even squad sizes at the 2nd round that means the third round we will already be at a disadvantage, unless it stays the same, guess we will see. If the difference in squad size continues it could well be more then double by the last round (maybe even before that) and we all know that fighting an enemy that is twice our squad size is impossible as that is what keeps us in the GZ. Is there anyway we can get the numbers on this? If not I guess we wait to give input until we get through to the end rounds to find out for ourselves.
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DeletedUser1877
Guest
In my case, I think earlier in the tech tree than Sir Squirrel, I had the 6 to 6 squads in the first round, first prov.