Discussion [Discussion] Release Notes version 1.17

[DeletedUser]

These wholesaler changes are so bad that leads me to think they really are trying to kill the game.
I mean, they have to be, its the only explanation!
Did they forget what was the purpose of the wholesaler??? The purpose of the wholesaler was:
1 - help players with limited access to trading partners ( like players who are just starting out)
2 - provide players with a way to spend excess coins/supplies so they can continue playing.

Now, the first option is out of the window really, so the players who need it the most, those players that have just started the game and are not in a decent fs yet, but still need goods to progress, those players who have no trading partners in their map because they haven't scouted many provinces, and who keep getting told "don't scout, that's bad for you!", those players will have no chance to progress and they might as well quit the game straight away!!!!
As for the second, do you really expect advanced players to buy what YOU think they should buy, and not what they actually need???

Edit: and who do you think you are to decide how much i should spend each time in the wholesaler??? We used to have 3 options, that allowed us to control if we wanted to spend just a little, a bit more, or a lot. Now, I can only spend a lot?!?!?!? Are you kidding?!?!? I don't care if the options change each 10h, what happens if the "good" options is only available while i'm in bed??? I'm permanently s*****??

How damn clueless are you??!?!?!
Trading is paramount in the game, and it is so essential that you gave us a wonder (blooming trader guild), to help us trade, and one of its effects was precisely to make the wholesaler better!!!
So yeah, with each update the thought that you are just trying to get rid of ALL the players so you can shut down the game gets more real, but if that's the case, then have the decency to let us know, so we can all go and play something else instead of wasting our time here.
Because this is just another change that makes the game less playable, not to mention enjoyable.

 

[DeletedUser1767]

In my oppinion, this is a step to prevent us from getting enough goods for negotiating. Its another way to stop us from going further on the map. This just sucks!

The worst part being the trickle-down effects through the rest of the game. The new battle system has some impact on the rest of your game, but it's mostly contained. The orcs requirement in negotiation, same deal. This, though... this is really bad for new players and people without trading partners; it's potentially bad for NH, which is a cornerstone of the game; it leaves a lot of us with nothing to do with excess coins and supplies... yikes.

 

[DeletedUser1075]

The wholesaler is a big change, but more in keeping with the idea of what a wholesaler should be - limited availability of a certain set of goods, that changes randomly. The problem is, the wholesaler doesn't give out enough resources to be considered "wholesale" pricing. I currently have 700% boost on marble at 125% culture. I can produce 952 marble for 2380 coin plus 238 supplies, and exchange marble for wood on the marketplace at a 1:1 ratio. The wholesaler is offering a paltry 650 wood for 390k coin (I collected once already, but the first one was in the 270k range so not far off). That's not wholesale, it is highway robbery. Now if it offered 9520 wood for 390k... nope, still very expensive. Add on to this that the wholesaler is definitely not useful to get things from anymore, because it isn't reliable as a source. It is now a dumping ground for excess resources, rather than a source of needed goods. Is that what the devs wanted? A dumping ground for excess resources?

The change to the battle tooltips is nice but like Ag123 says, it could have been a bit more helpful by changing the unit portrait backgrounds. Still waiting for the tutorial though.

I really love the ability to jump between chapters in the research tree through the little icons at the bottom. It does help that when you have open research in a chapter, the jump takes you right to it. It would have been even better (and more informative) if there were a little icon under each chapter that you had open research in as well though. I see the black triangle under the chapter I'm currently in. It would be great if there were an open triangle under previous chapters that I had new research available in as well.

What is ridiculous is the cost of a city expansion. 16000k? The next level of MH only gets me to capacity of 11900k, which means the final level for the woodelves chapter probably won't get to 16000k. Is this an error? Why even tease us with expansions in the tree if you intend to price us out of them?

 

[DeletedUser1627]

Now no excuse to update the wiki...

And good update (1.17) BUT the wholesaler... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

[Heymrdiedier]

Sure, they spoiled that they were making changes, but there were a number of ways they could have made changes that would have hurt us but still made some sense. They could have kept the old system, but made each purchase of a good increase the prices: that would have been tough, especially if the increments were steep, but still a reasonable system. They could have kept the old system with the starting prices set differently each day, so that some days e.g. marble would have been expensive but e.g. steel would have been cheap, and also had the escalating prices: that would have been tough, but actually kinda interesting. Instead they just made the Wholesaler a mess.

well if you look at it, the wholesalesman is cheaper then before (dont know how many time you have to buy before its more expensive)
the options are just less, it think they just had bad luck on the first offers to be shown since patch. If there would have been an offer with tier 1 for coins (and i assume there is one like that) there would be a lot less drama.

Now its looks like you can only buy tier 1 by paying 4 times as much other tier 1 (so bigger loss then putting up 3 star trades on market) or by using hammers. Now hammers is what we dont have and will never have anymore, since factories get bigger and use more hammers, barracks uses 4 times as much hammers as you can produce, and since the workshops doenst give you much extra hammers per square even after upgrading it.

On the other hand, have you noticed that the price of tier 2 is equal to tier3? maybe a bug, maybe not
This new wholesaleman will sure change the local trades that are done on the market. (like buy tier 3 from saleman, and put it up on trade for 2times the price for tier 2 and you will get more then saleman gives you) so a lot mroe 3 star trades will be seen.
However, i fear tier 1 will be non-existing in trade from now on, you need so much of it, and can only produce so few, so if saleman doesnt allow you to buy the extra we'll all be short of that.

 

[DeletedUser1767]

well if you look at it, the wholesalesman is cheaper then before (dont know how many time you have to buy before its more expensive)

It's more expensive each time. I've bought (*sighhhhh*) elixir three times now, and the price has increased each time.

the options are just less, it think they just had bad luck on the first offers to be shown since patch. If there would have been an offer with tier 1 for coins (and i assume there is one like that) there would be a lot less drama.

There is an offer on Tier 1 for coins (planks, in my case), and it's not an unreasonable offer -- in fact, I would say that the starting offers for coins and supplies that are showing for me are, in and of themselves, entirely reasonable starting offers. We'll have to see the starting offers for a few days before we decide whether the prices themselves are a serious issue. The more immediate issue is the lack of variety in available offers, and that's going to be a more serious issue the newer your city is. For an advanced city, it's probably manageable, if annoying, IF you have decent trading partners; for a new city or a city with poor or unbalanced trading partners, it's a potential nightmare.

 

[Elderflower]

The new wholesale window was quite a surprise but I got a very good deal on Gems for Supplies.
Previously I used to wait until my storage of gold and supplies was full before spending it on goods. Now I see that I will need to watch the wholesaler regularly and spend my gold and supplies a bit before I actually have to in order to be sure of getting the best deal for it and not end up having to buy something I don't want because my Main Hall is full.

 

[DeletedUser240]

Not only the goods mostly suck with the wholesaler but i see next offer 9:09h, few minutes later 9:10h, few minutes later 9:08h , few minutes later 9:10h is this the procession of echternach ??? 1 step forwards and 2 steps backwards ??

 

[Dony]

does this also mean, mage has 50 damage reduction to heavy ranged, and does a debuf of another 50% damage reduction,

so the debuffed heavy ranged now has 150 *150 = 225 so 125% less damage? this doesnt sound right?

for damage reduction its 0.5*0.5=25% damage taken, so no longer immunities for us

 

[DeletedUser]

The players that are going to be hurt worst by this change are precisely the players that need the wholesaler the most. The new players, that only have a handful of provinces scouted so they have little to none trading partners from the map, and because they are so small they will have trouble getting into a decent fs in which trading is not an issue.

As an advanced player i get all the goods i need from my fs, but i am in one of the top fs in the 3 worlds i play, so the wholesaler its just a way to dump excess coins, it is not needed.
For a new player this change will be a nightmare, as it will slow down his progress even more for lack of goods. So, they cannot fight, they cannot trade=quit the game.
Forget the "move the players thingy", if you keep driving new players away like this there is no way we will ever be rid of dead/empty neighbourhoods.

 

[DeletedUser736]

Ok, I am not sure I understand how work the new damage calculation. In the current tournament, my archer have a 60% defense against heavy. Once I put numb shot on the said heavy which reduce the damage they do by 20%, if I get hit afterward, the damage reduction is 68% How do I get to a 68% damage reduction from 60% and 20%

 

[DeletedUser1677]

I like what you did in the "Research". Making it easier to get to a specific chapter!

But the wholesaler, I do NOT approve :/
(I also used coins and supplies at the wholesaler, when they are maxed)

 

[Preator]

Ok, I am not sure I understand how work the new damage calculation. In the current tournament, my archer have a 60% defense against heavy. Once I put numb shot on the said heavy which reduce the damage they do by 20%, if I get hit afterward, the damage reduction is 68% How do I get to a 68% damage reduction from 60% and 20%

Base Damage : 100
damage against 60% defense : 100 * (1-60/100) = 40
damage against additional 20% damage reduction: 40 * (1-20/100) = 32
overall damage reduction : 100 - 32 = 68 ==> Thus, 68% damage reduction overall.

 

[DeletedUser1767]

The players that are going to be hurt worst by this change are precisely the players that need the wholesaler the most. The new players, that only have a handful of provinces scouted so they have little to none trading partners from the map, and because they are so small they will have trouble getting into a decent fs in which trading is not an issue.

As an advanced player i get all the goods i need from my fs, but i am in one of the top fs in the 3 worlds i play, so the wholesaler its just a way to dump excess coins, it is not needed.
For a new player this change will be a nightmare, as it will slow down his progress even more for lack of goods. So, they cannot fight, they cannot trade=quit the game.
Forget the "move the players thingy", if you keep driving new players away like this there is no way we will ever be rid of dead/empty neighbourhoods.

I have a weird impulse to "unlike" this post just so I can "like" it again, I like it so hard.

I have three cities, one of them in WoodElves. The other two are in Chapter Two and were started a week apart from each other, and they've become a fascinating if unintentional science experiment on the importance of being in a good neighbourhood for new cities.

My Beta city was lucky: it's situated in a nice neighbourhood with plenty of active players, many of whom are quite advanced. From the beginning, every trade I posted was gone almost immediately. The city grew quickly. I joined a fellowship, more as a future investment than an active necessity. There are no goods shortages, and even this early, I use the Wholesaler only to get rid of excess coins and supplies.

My poor beleaguered Winyandor city was not so fortunate. It's located in the Outer Desert Ring, with only new cities and abandoned cities as far as the eye can see. I have no trading partners amongst the cities I've discovered, and I'm not living in the shadow of a more advanced active city. My first trade posted for "place a trade" quest didn't get picked up for days. Joining a fellowship -- a large one, with some reasonably advanced cities -- was necessary for my survival. I had to fight to increase my score enough to get into such a fellowship, and I did that primarily by riding the Wholesaler for all I was worth. Now I'm in a fellowship, and it's probably going to be okay, but my city's still in recovery mode and it shows. At the moment, I still have to rely on the Wholesaler because I'm only just starting to get enough extra goods to trade (I expect this to change soon, but even so).

I'm looking at the Wholesaler offerings in my Beta city, and while I think I could have still saved my Winyandor city under these conditions, a) it would definitely have been much harder, and b) I can say that because I'm an experienced Elvenar player and I know what to do. Maybe a player new to Elvenar could do the same if they had a lot of experience with other similar games, but should they have to? And what about the players with little or no experience with games like this?

 

[DeletedUser503]

Three words first. I hate everything that was just implemented.Now I can't even polish neighbors
cause I have no way to get rid of excess coins or supplies. You have sent my research back FIVE AGES.
The wholesaler is a complete MESS. If you're idea is to completely kill the game, you have succeeded!

 

[Dony]

Three words first. I hate everything that was just implemented.Now I can't even polish neighbors
cause I have no way to get rid of excess coins or supplies. You have sent my research back FIVE AGES.
The wholesaler is a complete MESS. If you're idea is to completely kill the game, you have succeeded!

you can still buy KP with coins

 

[DeletedUser]

you can still buy KP with coins

That gets very expensive very fast... I know players that are paying over 1 million coins per kp... is it really worth it?
For me, it is not.

 

[lika1961]

So you use coins to buy KP. How do you turn KPs into marble? Any ideas anyone?

 

[Muf-Muf]

Really? Light Melee and Light Ranged are the ONLY types of units we have during Chapter I and most of Chapter II (the first Heavy Melee unit is at the end of Chapter II). Cannoners were already difficult to deal with, and now you are making it even harder? Did you guys at least decrease the number of Cannoneers we encounter during the first 4 rings?

I just did some tests, and for me it was very well possible to defeat the enemies I faced in the first 10 provinces with the units and squad sizes available in Chapter I, and the next 20 using those available in Chapter II - even if you don't count the units that only become available at the end of Chapter II.. Ring 4 (distance 3) is already quite far out, when you are still within the first 2 chapters. You need just 30 provinces to advance to Chapter III. Should you have concrete examples of "unwinable" fights, do feel free to share them and get some help and/or insights. We have just created a new part on the forum, specifically for that purpose: click here to go there now.

I see Training Grounds got the upgrade but Wiki still doesn't say anything about it nor Wood Elves. Do you plan to update it in 'near future'?

Definitely. Wiki work is behind. We're working hard on getting it back on track and, when that is done, keeping it on track. We do know that it is very annoying that it is currently not up-to-date, which is why we are prioritizing it at the moment. We do need some time, though. As you can imagine, a wiki article isn't written in just a few minutes.

Well, yes but the tooltip of the Treant still shows a text which is way too long for the small window. Shouldn't this been fixed too while you're already at it?

You are right that the text currently doesn't fit, but we have not changed the text yet, because we are working on reworking the unit information screens, which would give us the space that we need for the text to fit. Did we change the text too soon? Yes, probably. But changing it back to the old text and then back to the new one again after that now is also not really helping anyone anymore. So, we are currently waiting for the new unit information screens to be implemented, which would solve this problem.

Would you mind to explain this a little closer? All I see are little icons at the bottom. What do they tell me?

You can click them for easy navigation in the tech tree. Also, if you have a new, unresearched technology, it should give you a notification that there is something to see in an earlier chapter, making you aware that you have not yet researched everything.

 

[DeletedUser283]

why do you keep calling it a wholesaler anyway ?
this is just some lousy kind of soviet shop : "you can come in and buy whatever we offer; meat ? no, only bread today"