Discussion [Discussion] Release Notes version 1.4 + Tournaments

[DeletedUser]

To have a successful game you need lots of players. Both the academy and the tournaments are available at the early stages of the game,

Is my neighborhood perhaps atypical? My dead cities are players who quit due to boredom during setup or shortly thereafter. Only 4-5 of the 280 made it into Section II before quitting. I guess Inno ran the numbers?

Sorry for the double post - couldn't get the quote inserted into an Edit mode

***********************************************

Tournaments and Magic Academy offer us an [un]wonted opportunity to rethink the calculations of our game.

Right now, for those of us who calculate score, Workshops and roads are the key variables. The fewest of both determine the highest scores (of course excepting the Snail Palaces, which are automobiles in a horse and buggy world).

Supplies have become the key focus - how to get them without building so many Workshops (ugh, at 78/grid score). Even though the Spells aren't as powerful as I'd like, and even though I can't use Ensorcelled Spells at all...it's possible to use the Academy to increase available grid space. The problem remains, however:

It's unfair to mandate the Academy for all players because only a Level 4/5 Academy can produce enough advantage to justify the 25 grid spaces. Players who don't opt to pay find their progress slowed. In the case of the Academy, no-pay players are actually penalized by having to devote space to a building detrimental to their overall game. No-pay players now can't cycle through Quests to obtain necessary supplies, either. So, less space, fewer supplies, no remedy except to pay up. This sucks.
​

In a nutshell, if you pay for a fully-upgraded Academy, work the Tournaments, and stick to Supply spells, you can reduce the number of Workshops currently required. It's NOT as efficient as using the Quests for Supplies (so players like me who run our entire cities on 6 workshops will be less competitive) - but for most everyone else, you'll be able to have fewer Workshops, i.e. higher scores or more space for Wonders.

 

[DeletedUser1278]

Apparently, you don't see the bigger picture here. To have a successful game you need lots of players. Both the academy and the tournaments are available at the early stages of the game, thus giving new players the opportunity to build a building that will have spells which will increase their goods/supplies income, goods that are needed during the tournaments, supplies that are needed to build an army players can use in those tournaments. To make those spells, players need relics. Relics can be won by completing tournament provinces. Players will also be able to win lots of kp, this will help them advance in the research tree a lot faster so they won't have to wait that long to research new technologies. In other words, they will always have something to do, and won't get bored as easily as most of us did. The academy is also useful for advanced players as fairy buildings are expensive to upgrade, especially when it comes to supplies, and we will see more spells in the future.


So we are not destroying the game, we are doing the exact opposite.

Oke people can go faster in the three and wait four 5 6 months for next guest race and thats smart lol
the new update is also main goal get many diamonds from players thats way you can play it with diamonds..


Make a nice update for people who dont want to pay money anymore bacause there is nothing left then only pay pay as much as you can
Before i liked to be in the top and spending a little money would help now i will never spend money on this game anymore.
no i have millions and millions of supplies 10 million tier 1 3 million tier 2 and 1.3 million tier 3
what is there to do nothing only collect and collect new race almost finisht did not buy kp from diamonds or supplies and then can collect another 4 5 6 months before the new guest race come

im starting to think that we can better make a bs and let smal players join they can buy supplies and go away again
because the fighting with neighbours is a very big mistake it should be with you bs not neighbours how many players dont have many neighbours.

yes yes we now the problem we are working on it we hope next year to fix the problem.
what is the use of a bs at this moment the only use is its for people who find there island in a very far disliked place and nobody wants to live there

thats the only use for it great idea

 

[DeletedUser240]

I fought in 27 provincies mostly twice, there was a popup at the end you are rank 247 ???
I really doubt if that was my personal ranking, if this was the ranking for my neighbourhood how is it calculated??
I have over 250 provincies if only a few players fight the ranking will never be high.
If players only discovered let us say 20 provincies and there are 3 players who did the tournament they will be ranked much higher.
Is this correct ????

 

[CrazyWizard]

The tournasment should end late on sunday, players have plenty of time on weekends less on school/workdays. so shift tournament days to incorporate the weekend days.

Now it feels like an unemployed/housewife tournament.

 

[DeletedUser778]

I fought in 27 provincies mostly twice, there was a popup at the end you are rank 247 ???
I really doubt if that was my personal ranking, if this was the ranking for my neighbourhood how is it calculated??
I have over 250 provincies if only a few players fight the ranking will never be high.
If players only discovered let us say 20 provincies and there are 3 players who did the tournament they will be ranked much higher.
Is this correct ????

It is your personal ranking. You can check it under the Tournaments ranking tab next to the player and fellowship rankings.
Neighbourhood activity is not calculated in the personal ranking, nor is there a ranking for neighbourhoods at all.
Neighbours are only important for the checkpoints in each tournament province, the more neighbours participate, the easier it gets to reach high checkpoints in a province to get more rewards at the end of the tournament.

 

[DeletedUser651]

Jovada, that was your ranking in the whole world/server , not just your neighborhood.

 

[DeletedUser]

The tournasment should end late on sunday, players have plenty of time on weekends less on school/workdays. so shift tournament days to incorporate the weekend days.

Now it feels like an unemployed/housewife tournament.

A resounding "yes!"

 

[DeletedUser]

Both the academy and the tournaments are available at the early stages of the game

No... Not exactly. They should be optionally. Maybe at start they are in case of Tournament, but with Academy later game make it mandatory, which is rather shitty to force players to something what they don't want.

thus giving new players the opportunity to build a building that will have spells which will increase their goods/supplies income, goods that are needed during the tournaments, supplies that are needed to build an army players can use in those tournaments

Nope again... Spells are long in production and affect only one building, so impact is also shitty Quests are still multiple times better than Academy. And with low acedemy we have smaaaaaaal decrease time for spell production compared to 4-5 lvl.

To make those spells, players need relics. Relics can be won by completing tournament provinces

But player still need to play tournament. What if don't want to?

Players will also be able to win lots of kp, this will help them advance in the research tree a lot faster so they won't have to wait that long to research new technologies

Again no By play in tournament player is forced to divide it's army to tournament and conquering provinces. Thus can run into problem with having not enough conquered provinces on era end. More KP increase this problem.

So we are not destroying the game, we are doing the exact opposite.

So... It is exactly problem you miss You don't see wider than me.

 

[DeletedUser880]

Regarding points rewards for participating in tournaments I think this needs to be reviewed. Even in beta 1296 players took part in the first weekly tournament and when this goes live the volumes will be much greater. Rewarding just the top 100 participants seems very mean and the points awarded seem very low. In particular the effort in fighting each battle for the province in the first place gives points based on the distance from your home city - winning one province gives more points for a lot of players than coming first in the tournament, with significantly more battles involved.

It appears from other comments that the KPs and other rewards may be reduced in future which seems reasonable but I think points awarded to a greater number of players would give more players something to aim for to help their overall ranking.

I would suggest that points should be given to at least the top 1000 players so that interest in the tournaments is maintained, so that the top player receives 1000 reducing by 1 point per position as it is now. I presume that the tournaments will cycle through each of the 9 goods types so would also suggest that further points are awarded based on each 9 week cycle, again for the top 1000 players overall.

 

[DeletedUser1231]

Thank you for this excellent new feature.

The tournaments bring of the daily activity for the big players.
The gains are very important even with an almost non-existent neighborhood, thus nobody is really disadvantaged.

We can make the tournaments if we are warlike but also if we produce, nobody is thus hurt.

The duration of the tournament from Tuesday evening till Saturday evening adorned me very good because we can play it the week and the weekend.

 

[DeletedUser629]

No... Not exactly. They should be optionally. Maybe at start they are in case of Tournament, but with Academy later game make it mandatory, which is rather shitty to force players to something what they don't want.

Then don't build it and get stuck with your main quest.

Nope again... Spells are long in production and affect only one building, so impact is also shitty Quests are still multiple times better than Academy. And with low acedemy we have smaaaaaaal decrease time for spell production compared to 4-5 lvl.

a 200% increase is not something i would call ''shitty'', and not everyone has the time to play hours a day doing nothing but quest cycling.

But player still need to play tournament. What if don't want to?

What if you don't want the academy? what if you don't want to do tournaments? What if you don't want to do anything? Then don't, and do nothing. It's all the same to me.

Again no By play in tournament player is forced to divide it's army to tournament and conquering provinces. Thus can run into problem with having not enough conquered provinces on era end. More KP increase this problem.
So... It is exactly problem you miss You don't see wider than me.

That is a decision a player has to make, besides, many tournament provinces can be catered due to low costs. Your army is only necessary in a small amount of provinces. Players can do both.

We don't miss any problem, you're seeing problems that aren't there. But feel free to apply for a job at Inno, and tell them they don't see wider than you.

 

[DeletedUser]

@Goryn Nope... As response I will not stay in main plot but simply quit game. Can wait 1-2 weeks, but that is all. Same way did already a lot of players, because owners ignore what people are saying to them. You know what means "rotation"? Ask any HR department in any company. It means wise people are escaping in favor of better and only stupid or feared are left. With games is exactly same. You want only stupid or feared players? Probably yes They will pay and not bother with questions. Maybe they are victims of "Stockholm syndrome"?

Yes. I can call it that way. One workshop with spell is nothing when I have 9 others Income increased only 10% and only if I don't forget to gather resources. If I am unable to gather, this income is smaller. When we look how long spell is produced, we cannot create much of them. Compare this to build two 2x2 workshops and harvesting coins for quest. Who will get more? And in place of 5x5 (25 squares) I can put 6 (24 squares) Workshops. Believe me... Residences and Main Hall will produce enough coins to fulfill every 3h this quest 3 times. As reward I will get for sure multiple times more Supplies than from enchanted Workshop. You cannot win with math.

It is not same. Because from time I started play I see player choices are limited and limited. You say "But we implemented A, B and C in that time!" and I reply: "But in same time you forced players to play in way D, E and F, throw away possibility G, H and I and as addition added limitations to J, K and L" You say, you see globally, you may even know incoming changes, but that doesn't mean you or owners know better what is better for players and how they want to play. They may do mistakes if they want, but saying about free choices in situation, when we have only one strict path, written by owners, sounds rather funny

So you agree that tournament, conquering provinces and chests on era end are unbalanced. They aren't in any kind of synergy. In fact they block each other.

And I will not apply to Inno. I already work for multiple times bigger and better company. And don't have to worry about my salary or change job yet. Besides I know how looks IT jobs in Germany, because I know guys working there. When I look more broadly I can say there are better places to work. Salary can be even lower, but atmosphere in work is also important. In a lot of companies in Western Europe it is not well because of many reasons. I can give you one question to rethink: "Why IT specialists from Central and Eastern Europe aren't common in Western Europe, despite salaries and conditions looks good from first glance?"

 

[DeletedUser]

I would suggest that points should be given to at least the top 1000 players so that interest in the tournaments is maintained, so that the top player receives 1000 reducing by 1 point per position as it is now

Belatedly, I'm realizing that the top players in the tournament are receiving permanent cumulative score points. If this is incorrect, please disregard the following comments.

Tournaments are just another Snail Palace. Once released into general play, on any given week there are likely to be players who will pay to fight and win the score rewards.

On any given week, there will be players competing for their boosted runes, who will logically invest massively into winning.

On any given week, there will be players who are exceptional fighters who can place highly with minimal losses.

On any given week, there will be players who have enormous production capacity who can place highly due to negotiations.

On any given week, there will be players with multiple resources as above.

So, on any given week, a significant number of the top 100 will go to payers. The remainder of the points will go to the players with the strongest cities, because cities with small resources won't be able to place in the top 100.

Basically, Inno is saying, "Congratulations on building the strongest cities in Elvenar. Now we're going to reward you by giving you access to permanent rank points that won't be available to anyone else, since they're smaller than you."

This is crazy. Even when the current mid-size cities reach Elven size, they still will never have access to gain the Tournament points, because we'll all still be larger...

The nature of these Tournament points would be equivalent with :"First 100 players to reach Dwarven Wonder tech each receive 500 permanent points", or some similar achievement award not available to all players.

This is a very very bad idea. Players should have equal opportunity at every stage of the game. Financial considerations mandate the payer / no-payer constraints in some form...but there's no rationale for introducing game inequalities.

Inno: Get in touch with your game demographics.

 

[DeletedUser]

But it is what they want @bobbipiazza Give payers more ways to spend their money. Now with something what is reseted every week,so they can get money for same thing every week round If they add to Tournament extra reward for continuous rank in Top10 or something like that we will get extra point in discussion about "Top non-payers are little worms compared even to small-payers". This game is shifting for long time to pay2win and everyone here see that, except maybe moderators and owners When highest place a non-payer can reach is maybe 100-150 in global ranking, we got our answer why tournaments have limited to 100 rewards. Give payers even more rewards for spending their moneys, acknowledge them, scratch behind ear and tell how they are great. But in fact it is binding them to account and game, because if someone bought virtual things for many hundreds or maybe even thousands of dollars, its will to breaking this toxic relation is weaker with every spend dollar (or any other currency). At some point this may change into, mentioned by me earlier, "Stockholm syndrome" and they will be defending game, even if they are victims and will be punished by system. Many already lost healthy distance to changes.

@Goryn Do you know what is most funny in this? Even if players give well documented and argumented point in discussion, it is or ignored or there is no will to changes "because not". As we see in case of Magic Academy for example. Players may shout, but only minor changes are allowed to provide. Any slightly bigger than trivia and "this doesn't match our vision of this game element" Saying players are affecting game is in such case quite funny. It is like giving kid one small lollipop by owner of candy factory and insisting this is huge effort from his side

 

[DeletedUser1278]

I will not build that useless academy and you cant make me
So i get stuck with my main quest SO WHAT Goryn the game is over after the introducing of the snails and only big spenders can reach the top.
keep wish full thinking goryn. your boss smells money. but he aint getting no more from me
Good thing i dont have a boss like yours
I dont like gready people

Even if i do all main quest there is no win situation .
they want to shovel something on my island what i dont want .

So I say no keep it what will be the next way to push it on players
Im a rebel bring it on

 

[DeletedUser1278]

this looks like (((( watch this))))

I Never Notice Outcheat it looks like I N N O to me

 

[DeletedUser]

@Goryn To give you proper math
I am in Faeries era and have repeatable quest 13k Supplies for 200k coins and twice 3h Workshops production. I have also 60 Residences. We enchant maxed (19lvl) Workshop and start counting when we reach bonus 13k of Supplies...
5m production 13k/241 = 53.9 cycles, round to 50 be generous 50x5 minutes = 250 minutes = over 6 hours of clicking
15m production 13k/589 = 22 cycles, round to 20 to again be generous 20 x 15minutes = 5 hours of clicking
1h production 13k/1550 = 8.3 cycles, round to 5, when we are so good 5 x 1h = 5h (in fact 8 ) = 5h of waiting
3h production 13k/3000 = 4 cycles Not much to calculate also... 12h

60 Residences will give me every 3h:
1957(19L) x 3 x 60 = 352260, so slightly above 350k coins
1769(17L) x 3 x 60 = 318420, so almost 320k coins
and additionally every neighbor/guild member clicking on Main Hall is giving me 70k of coins.

There is no mathematically possible to overcome this quest with Spells Look at my calculations and say I am wrong. With spells you need twice as much time, what can generate 2 Workshops on 1 level and quest. Compare this to costs of leveling Workshop to 19 level, time and costs of spell production. I can easily build another ten 1 level Workshops and do this quest few times, which is done every 3 people click my Main Hall

You see why I still insist what you described as good, for me is simply joke? Other Spells are even worse. Workshop spell is treated as best of currently existing. That is why Academy at current game level is simply crap. No matter of your progress. And 3h give you plenty of time, without worry you miss end of spell or so. Players will not build something useless. And if do this because of lack of knowledge (there is no info this building cannot be destroyed) they will hate it. Increase power of it and spells. Other way this will be most avoided building in game

EDIT: to be very precise... On my main wold I have 9 x 19L Workshops and 12 x 1L Workshops. Guess which of those two groups produce more Supplies I tell you, that 6 are for quest with 100k coins for 6 x 3h production and 6 as 3 times for 13k Supplies quest. I have plenty of coins and Supplies at quite low overall cost, because I can fit those 2x2 in many gaps, where other buildings cannot fit.

 

[Lissona]

Yes. I can call it that way. One workshop with spell is nothing when I have 9 others :) Income increased only 10% and only if I don't forget to gather resources. If I am unable to gather, this income is smaller. When we look how long spell is produced, we cannot create much of them. Compare this to build two 2x2 workshops and harvesting coins for quest. Who will get more? And in place of 5x5 (25 squares) I can put 6 (24 squares) Workshops. Believe me... Residences and Main Hall will produce enough coins to fulfill every 3h this quest 3 times. As reward I will get for sure multiple times more Supplies than from enchanted Workshop. You cannot win with math.

Perhaps you can gain more supplies by doing repeatable quests - but if you don't do them and if you do tournaments, the MA is worth the space...

 

[DeletedUser629]

And I will not apply to Inno. I already work for multiple times bigger and better company. And don't have to worry about my salary or change job yet. Besides I know how looks IT jobs in Germany, because I know guys working there. When I look more broadly I can say there are better places to work. Salary can be even lower, but atmosphere in work is also important. In a lot of companies in Western Europe it is not well because of many reasons. I can give you one question to rethink: "Why IT specialists from Central and Eastern Europe aren't common in Western Europe, despite salaries and conditions looks good from first glance?"

That's a whole new topic. Feel free to tell me all about the reasons why they don't work in western Europe in the off-topic section of the forum.

 

[DeletedUser629]

I will not build that useless academy and you cant make me
So i get stuck with my main quest SO WHAT Goryn the game is over after the introducing of the snails and only big spenders can reach the top.
keep wish full thinking goryn. your boss smells money. but he aint getting no more from me
Good thing i dont have a boss like yours
I dont like gready people

Even if i do all main quest there is no win situation .
they want to shovel something on my island what i dont want .

So I say no keep it what will be the next way to push it on players
Im a rebel bring it on

My boss pays me from 8:00 am till 5:00 pm and has nothing to do with Inno ^^