Wonders and Runes

[DeletedUser1476]

As a semi-early-adopter who plays on the beta server I am frustrated with the state of the game as it is right now.

Wonders - as someone who came from Forge of Empires I feel they are basically worthless. Got both of the Elven wonders now at level 5 and am stuck there since I can't get runes to unlock them. If I hadn't already reached the end of the tech tree I would not even bother with them. The amount of KP you need to unlock the next level of meager rewards is insane. From what I figure, the only Wonder that's really worth giving it a try is the Bulwark which I still haven't got a full rune set for.

There's currently two ways to gain runes: Battles and contributing to other people's Wonders. Compared to FoE you get less reward for contributing: Only the first players get a single rune. The other rewards are 5 or 10 KP. The only incentive to actually contribute to other Wonders is because you really need the runes to make a marginally usefull building a bit less useless.

Battles. I am now fighting them 10 to 11 squares away from my city. Half of them I can still win, the other half I either loose or waste so many troops that it's not feasible and goods are easier to come by. I wouldn't actually need new provinces as I have enough space, but I need the runes so there's little way around it. Battles itself have become rather boring.

Wonders only serve as a way to dump KP that would go to waste otherwise. The fact that this is blocked at level 5 (and I guess again every 5 levels) makes even that a rather moot point. I don't know if this problem exists for player on the regular servers who probably much earlier got to the point where they won runes.

Martial Monastery (lvl 5) - 5.7% troop health and 1500 culture. Seriously? For several hundred KP invested?
Crystal Lighthouse (lvl 5) - 47% longer help and 14 goods (I guess? It doesn't even tell me what I get) Given that I don't need help to be at 160% and that I make several thousand boosted goods each a day, that's actually quite useless.

To make these two buildings at least somewhat worth the investment in my eyes, the Monastery's troop health bonus needs to be at least doubled or a matching offensive bonus added. The Lighthouse should give a fixed amount of all goods per level. The rewards for contributing need to be increased as well to be in line with the amount of KP needed to level up.

And don't get me started about all the functionality that's missing. I can't see which Wonders I contributed to, I need to keep a separate list for that. There's no feedback either when one levels up. Aiding your guild members is a chore in the current system. And it's worse for neighbours if you have to use the (slow) map. Why can't we have something like in FoE? As a guild leader I have no way to see who of my members is active and who isn't unless I manually keep track of their score.

As it is, compared to FoE this game offers only too little to be a competitor. It manages to alleviate a few minutes of boredom a day when I collect my production. Why I keep logging on? I still hope that one day this game may improve but every day that hope fades a little bit.

 

[DeletedUser1231]

Hello kasmodian

I do not agree with you for the AW.
I find on the contrary that bonuses are balanced well and bring a " small bonus " one cannot see of players with considerable advantages which dominate .
As for the gains for the participations I find them also good and actually the only interest to participate in an AW is the rune in present and not the PK.

I have to stop FOE because I found the uninteresting game from moment or the only thing to do was to put PF on the big monuments, where from my satisfaction with the system of elvenar

For the fights I am in provinces 12,13 and 14 and (except provinces marble) I there manage at all to gain them by fighting

On the other hand I agree with you on the possibility of knowing (when we are a leader of fellowship) if the players are active or not (at otherwise by looking their evolution of points)

 

[DeletedUser]

@benroq but you don't take into account more factors. For example some of wonders, even at 10th level, can be switched with combination of buildings or technologies. But to have maxed level of AW you need sacrifice boosted relics. Which is for veeeeeery long time too expensive and when you calculate, you are loosing too much compared to bonuses. Elvish/Human AW are completely useless. Their bonuses are laughable and cost in 3 type relics additionally made them waste of time and resources. Too much efforts, too small bonus, too big problem Dwarven AW were better balanced, but still not as much as they should be. Maybe in next era they will be better. But still forcing players to develop every AW technologies and thus lowering chances for drop of wanted AW rune is something driving peoples mad. With next AW tech chances drop from 25% to 16% and we should remember that this 16% is not end, because we still need hit not given yet rune. So chances are dropping from 16% to less than 2% when waiting for last rune. For sure we will be having a lot of unused runes (and non convertible to broken shards) in another wonders. Next era and finalizing wonder will be even harder.

Helping in wonders other players for runes will be also nearly impossible, because someone first have to build given high era AW. With lowering chances this can take months, because getting runes from provinces will be nearly impossible (long province discovering time + heavy casualties or negotiation costs). Only people with diamonds will be able to do that. We go to point where only paying player will be able to do things which should be possible to all. Some people buy runes to build high era AW and get high bonuses. Other players, even after many months of gathering runes for one wonder, will not gather needed 9 runes.

 

[DeletedUser594]

I have to stop FOE because I found the uninteresting game from moment or the only thing to do was to put PF on the big monuments, where from my satisfaction with the system of elvenar

Elvenar is heading same way as FoE 'cause it's to expensive at high levels, or it takes very long time to advance!
Inno Management having a sickness called greed plus can't see past the Dollar/Euro sign!!
The exchange rate US dollar versus a lot of other currencies is getting out of hand lately, 'cause of this I should
think Inno's loosing a "few" customers!!!
I had a look in my cupboard the other day and found a game called Sid Meier's Pirates! It's was put up for sale
in 2001 and it runs under Win10! Wow, I had to learn to dance with the Gov. daughter all over again!
Result: Less Inno games! Plus there are a few other games in this cupboard I haven't tried yet!

 

[DeletedUser]

I agree somewhat with a few of the things mentioned:

- Shards you get for wonders which are already level 6 or higher become useless (you can't even break them). A solution for this would be great.
- I'd also like a way to measure player activity.
- Increased functionality for wonders (tracking which wonders you donate in / notification when your AW is full / etc) is desirable.
- Next era runes will be too hard to get from provinces given the current system, especially if you can't break other shards anymore.
- Elven/Human wonders only become useful later on (Monastery needs higher era and the Lighthouse needs a lot of neighbours), early on the loss in bonus relics is simply not worth it.

Other things:

- In my opinion the Dwarven Bulwark is completely useless. The units you get I never use (Can't win any battles with them anymore, Paladins are a lot better) and it's better to get training capacity from normal buildings so you don't lose bonus relics.
- The rewards you get for helping in AW are fine.
- It's easy enough to get shards once you have finished technology and you can spend all KP on Ancient Wonders. Hopefully this will also be the case in the next era / chapter.

 

[DeletedUser1231]

Kandor : actually you are right on the cost mattering in boosted relic which makes lose an important bonus of production of resources for players who have it little.
I am 500 % of bonus and the 50 % loss does not change much because I always have a production of resources bigger than that I need.

You are also right on the principle that it has to have players there who buy runes with diamonds to take out their AW so that players not diamond dealers can gain in their turn these invaluable runes which we can have only with great difficulty with provinces (I shall need soon 3 days to explore a single province thus with 1 luck on 3 to have a rune of the next AW every 9 days, it is actually too long)

Boko: I think that in a future (more or less far) we can free the AW above the level 10 (like that it passed on FOE), we shall thus have a utility for these runes

The AW elfs or human being has no important bonus but their bonus is going to evolve with our city (percentage of bonus for the army and percentage of increase of help of neighborhood) while the dwarf AW has bonuses fix which will not evolve with our city and which will become obsolete (increase fixes of barrack training, of production of units, bonus of population ) . I thus think that they will lose of their interest in time

 

[DeletedUser283]

I am very interested in the bullwark : there are still encounters that can be won with sword acrobats (this morning I had an encounter with 2 squads of necromancers);
and I am interested in the training squad size boost because our battlefield squad size will be extended with future researches; I try to maintain my training squad size equal to the battlefield squad size for easier management of troops

 

[DeletedUser1477]

just signed up for the forum because I´m 100% agree with comments the Kasmodian and TheKandor additionally added the problem with my AW

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]I'm having problems with my building A.W. Dwarven Bulwark since a month all my runes are failing (very very difficult to get), all fall in the same place, for example TODAY lost 3 runes more for a total of 9 runes. situation that has me very unhappy because in the past I never had that problem with my previous AW[/FONT]

 

[DeletedUser283]

I found out lately that due to the way we get rune shards, one should not rush in building ancient wonders :
one should accumulate rune shards as they come, and apply them to the AW before building
of course, once you have your 9 rune shards for 1 AW, any further rune shard will bounce and become a broken shard that can the be used to accumulate 10 of them and get a free rune shard for another AW

and this strategy will be useless once we have the newer AW for the new era

 

[DeletedUser503]

Relics needed to upgrade Wonders should only be of that player's non -boosted type.
Reduction of production from losing boosted relics is not acceptable for rewards
given by using them for the Wonders.

 

[DeletedUser]

@benroq yes, for "overboosted" with relics, if they loose 10 or 20 (depends from wonders levels) this is not the case. We should remember that we are gathering runes "by force" when conquering provinces. Most of them when we still not have Dwarven AW tech. This should be done different way. Instead of getting runes when we conquer province we should get tickets which can be exchanged anytime for a draw of luck. This can be done in at least 2 ways:
- one ticket for draw among all discovered wonders,
- two tickets for draw among wonders only from chosen level,
- three or four tickets for draw only from exact chosen wonder.

Such solution give us few advantages:
- player don't get runes from conquered provinces to wonders (s)he didn't wanted to have,
- developers easily can change how many tickets we will get, depending from how far conquered province is from our home,
- player may gathering tickets and use them at moment (s)he really want to build wonder.

 

[DeletedUser1345]

Wonders are hardly worth the effort, except that they are something to use KP for while waiting for the next guest race. Takes more KP to build one its last five levels than it takes to finish the entire sixth tier. If I was not waiting for the next upgrade I would not bother with them. I would guess that a lot of players feel the same. But I could be wrong.

 

[DeletedUser651]

I am with spinster. Of course, I was done with the tech tree by the time the wonders came out so I am one of those that got royally shafted for being a long time supporter of this game. I still can't get the shards I want to build the mountain halls. The last 11 runes have broken and I still need 2 more runes to build this thing. I hate hate hate having to compete with my fellows for these shards. Or, I can ignore my fellows and try to help outside people so I won't feel bad when I try to get the shards out from under them.

This game has changed. The feeling has changed. You have to be ruthless and cutthroat and harm others in order to get ahead with these wonders. I don't like playing games like that. I would assume that people who do like that kind of game would play FoE, because that game is apparently made much better. I thought this game was there to get the other kinds of players, the ones who like a peaceful and cooperative game. I don't know what they are doing.

I WISH they were greedy. I wish all they cared about was money. Then they would care about customer satisfaction. I can't keep the highest spenders playing in my fellowship on other worlds because they are all bored out of their minds. We are down to counting bottles of beer on the wall in chat. Yes....bottles of beer (For the non US players....it is a song that goes like this: 100 bottles of beer on the wall, 100 bottles of beer, take one down, pass it around, 99 bottles of beer on the wall. 99 bottles of beer on the wall 99 bottles of beer, take one down, pass it around, 98 bottles of beer on the wall....etc.)

They seem to only be interested in new players and not keeping the old ones.

 

[DeletedUser]

Katzenprinz: I WISH they were greedy. I wish all they cared about was money.

Actually all they DO care about is money.

I wasn't able yet to build a wonder - missing one rune since a very very long time.

What do I get instead of the last rune ? Broken shards of course.

What do I get when I finally collected 10 broken shards?

ONE other broken shard.

If Inno Games thinks this game is interesting or good enough for me to invest real money - well they are soooo wrong!

So to hell with all wonders, I doubt if I need them anyway

 

[DeletedUser118]

I don't think you really need them. You can go quite fine without'em. But as it seems, many have built them so far cuz else they would have died of bordem already.

Oh and btw it was not me who posted before you but my fellow Bobbykitty. Just so you know. ^^

 

[DeletedUser613]

If you got a broken shard, raise a ticket because you are supposed to get a complete rune for 10 broken shards

 

[DeletedUser867]

If you have a full bar of broken shards, you can't accumulate any more BUT if you click on the button to EMPTY the bar you're guaranteed an additional slot in your Rune Wheel.

 

[DeletedUser1075]

This game has changed. The feeling has changed. You have to be ruthless and cutthroat and harm others in order to get ahead with these wonders.

That is more for the Mountain Halls and Dwarven Bulwark, where there are so few building those two that there is a race to be in the top tier of helpers so you can get the runes you need to build your own. There are so many people building the first two AWs (Monastery/Sanctuary/Spire/Lighthouse) that we seem to have plenty of rune opportunities to go around from those. I do think that we need to be able to break runes we don't intend to use (like the 4 sitting there in my level 7 Monastery) so we can at least get shards for the ones we want to build. That would alleviate a lot of the issues you raise.

Long term, there won't be as many of these under construction, but you will theoretically have had plenty of time to get runes from the provinces. So hopefully this won't be cutthroat going forward.

I am eager to see what comes after the Magic Academy. That was a waste of space, I'm so glad I didn't build it.

 

[DeletedUser724]

Bulwark give 1st type of soldier and increase training size
1st type of soldier is storm barbarian

Increase training size, to me , I can delete 1 of my armory when bulwark is raised to higher level
it give me extra area later (not now , a long way to go )

for 1st type of soldier
it is the fast recruiting soldier (lesser time and move faster ) which I do not use it for a long time
I get too many, so I use it once and find
some enemy soldier change their 1st hitting target to "1st type of soldier"
their hit is powerful, but also make heavy loss when it get hit

nowaday, i use them as a shield of my Paladin (move slowly and always enemy 1st hitting target )

 

[DeletedUser1075]

Increase training size, to me , I can delete 1 of my armory when bulwark is raised to higher level
it give me extra area later (not now , a long way to go )

You could. It's debatable if you would want to. Elvish armories take up less space than the Dwarven Bulwark, and give more point and more training size. So that is a net loss from my perspective - are Human armories that much bigger?

for 1st type of soldier ... nowaday, i use them as a shield of my Paladin (move slowly and always enemy 1st hitting target )

I've had to use Treants - the swords (elvish unit) die in one single hit so they don't work well as a shield. Which means I haven't built my first type of unit in months and have no plans to do so. Making the bulwark even more useless.

Is the Bulwark more helpful to Humans than it is to Elves?