Wonder Society system

[Alcaro]

Hi guys,

I would like to know if on this server is any FS using WS system.

Thank you

 

[Karvest]

There are a lot of WS system types, which one you are talking about?

 

[CrazyWizard]

I prefer soggy's version fill 400 points yourself and the other 60 points from the chest are done by your fellows to help out.

The one that does not need a sheet and stuff.

 

[Alcaro]

in any circumstance I do not refer to swap threads. I am thinking at the one described in Gems. With Targets and reserves, with a SS etc.

@CrazyWizard - that wasn't my question. I didn't ask what people prefer. In my 2 cities in live servers we use this system and works like a charm. Nobody forgets to donate what it's supposed to donate, nobody has to keep track if the swap was done.

LE - I do not like to donate ad litteram, not even to my own wonders, I am not a charity organization.

 

[Karvest]

The one at gems is too complex and require a lot of effort to maintain.

 

[Alcaro]

not really. The start it's a bit tedious but once all is set everything it's working very smoothly. I know what I am saying because, as I mentioned, I am using it already for almost 2 years. We tweaked it a bit, here and there to be fair to all contributors (to get the same % of revenue) but now we really have no problems with it.

 

[CrazyWizard]

in any circumstance I do not refer to swap threads. I am thinking at the one described in Gems. With Targets and reserves, with a SS etc.

@CrazyWizard - that wasn't my question. I didn't ask what people prefer. In my 2 cities in live servers we use this system and works like a charm. Nobody forgets to donate what it's supposed to donate, nobody has to keep track if the swap was done.

LE - I do not like to donate ad litteram, not even to my own wonders, I am not a charity organization.

There are plenty systems and I think the SS version is horrible.
I do not understand the charity comment, it's crazy thinking. what charity?

If my fellows help me with these chests I get exactly what I deserve. and no crazy sheet maintenance and stuff.

I just drop 205 points myself (my share) and get the other 45 from fellows who in some cases get a rune.
A spreadsheet will not improve these RoI investments if they are divided earnestly.
So this is exactly the same as that complex sheet without the complexity, it also avoids issues if a player stops or moves fellowships for example.

If a fellowship employs a sheet for this I would leave that fellowship directly, it's a pain on a computer, it's even a bigger mess on your phone or tablet.

When soggy suggested wonder society a while back I was like no $!@#% way, spreadsheets are horrible. but when he said you do not need one, I liked it.

Wondermail / chains are nice because they are easy, but this one is just as easy and divedes rewards much better over all participants.
I think you can find this version somewhere but the spreadsheet one?

You could even solo use this concept as long as you have friendly fellows. without anyone joining you.

 

[Alcaro]

spending 250 KPs on my own wonder it's a total loss. Please, do not say "crazy thinking" I am already upset, don't need extra grief

"If a fellowship employs a sheet for this I would leave that fellowship directly, it's a pain on a computer, it's even a bigger mess on your phone or tablet." - only one or two persons need to manage the SS, so far in my other FSs nobody complained about that. The rest of the fellows just need to give KPs to the designated targets, they don't need to keep track of their KPs or check the SS (unless they want it so).

I come again with my original question - Is there any FS on this server which is using the Wonder Society System similar (more or less) with the one described in gems?

 

[Karvest]

We use slightly modified "Soggy's promoted" version "fill your own AW, get its chests KP for free with the help of WS members, WS members don't loose a single KP, and get a free runes as bonus". The only modification is that we use google sheet to track edge cases and planning (that allows less KP to be dedicated to WS system).

spending 250 KPs on my own wonder it's a total loss

That's not true, with this system you are spending less KP than required to level up wonder. And that "less" = sum of all chests in that AW. Which is 100% fair unlike many other chest KP redistribution systems.

 

[CrazyWizard]

Good luck.


But one last question:
Whats the difference between:

• spending 250 kp in another persons wonder and get 45 KP as a return so your net spending is 205kp
• Spending 205 KP in your own wonder and getting 45KP for free?

The first case is the spreadsheet version.
The second is the soggy simplified version without a sheet.

Why is spending 205 kp in your own wonder a total loss? and spending that same amount in another persons wonder a gain?
The end result is 100% the same.

 

[Alcaro]

@Karvest - what it's my benefit by giving to myself hundreds of KPs? High level wonder are around 1000 KPs, this means I should give at least 800 KPs. How is not this a loss?

@CrazyWizard - with the system I am talking about ALL CONTRIBUTORS get back around 20% revenue of their spending. Your example has nothing in common with the system I truly hope to find it here, in Beta.

 

[Karvest]

I'm leveling SSS to lvl34 now. This system allow me to do that spending only 1890KP instead of 2200KP. That 310KP is my net benefit.
If you get more than that using other system => you are stealing KP from other members of your system.

 

[Alcaro]

with WS System (the one I keep mentioning) you would get back 20% revenue, which means 2200 +440 (20% revenue) = 2640 KPs. Do you see the difference?

 

[Karvest]

That 130 KP (difference between 2200-440 and 1890) is not taken out of nothing, you steal them from your WS members. Not every wonder level give you 20% bonus in chests. If there are less - you should receive less.

 

[Alcaro]

That 130 KP (difference between 2200-440 and 1890) is not taken out of nothing, you steal them from your WS members. Not every wonder level give you 20% bonus in chests. If there are less - you should receive less.

Not the wonders but the system does because so is designed to give that 20% revenue to everybody who donated through the system. Keep in mind, that in this case we aren't talking about a specific wonder, because there are always 3-5 Targets from different players ofc. You can choose where you put ur KPs, the SS manager is counting (actually the SS is doing it automatically) your given KPs vs. the amount of KPs needed to your Wonder chosen as target.

 

[CrazyWizard]

Not the wonders but the system does because so is designed to give that 20% revenue to everybody who donated through the system. Keep in mind, that in this case we aren't talking about a specific wonder, because there are always 3-5 Targets from different players ofc. You can choose where you put ur KPs, the SS manager is counting (actually the SS is doing it automatically) your given KPs vs. the amount of KPs needed to your Wonder chosen as target.

A system cannot return more, than whats in the system.

If there are 45 KP to be earned you cannot make it 55. there are no 55 knowledge points in the system do you can't earn 55.
No system can turn 45 KP into 55kp unless you "steal them for another player using the same system and they get 10 less"

 

[Alcaro]

@CrazyWizard - oh well, since you never used this system how can you be so sure that it doesn't?
I said that we use the the Gem system with modifications. You are welcome to join one of my FS and get it explained by my Mage how it works

Yes, the accuracy of those 20% is not perfect since sometimes that would mean to get back ... let's say ... 20.3 KPs and that is not possible. In this case, we can say that that 20% might be sometimes only 19.6 or 20.2 (was just an example).

 

[Karvest]

Any WS system is about redistributing KP from bonus chests. If chests contain less than 20% (in case of 32+ levels - much less) - you can't redistribute more than is actually there. If your system is using fixed 20% reward - it can't be fair (and probably won't even work once there would be a lot of 32+ lvl wonders in it).

 

[Alcaro]

TOTAL WONDERS SINCE 3/18/2019: 2251
this is from one of my live FS. I would say it works and we aren't a little FS.

TOTAL WONDERS SINCE 27/05/2020: 981
this is from my other FS where I am the AM and I implemented SUCCESFULL the system. This FS is a bit smaller (smaller players), we aren't even a full team, therefore the amount of KPs won in tournaments isn't that big like in the first one.

 

[CrazyWizard]

That 130 KP (difference between 2200-440 and 1890) is not taken out of nothing, you steal them from your WS members. Not every wonder level give you 20% bonus in chests. If there are less - you should receive less.

I assume that number was made up somewhere (gems maybe?)
maybe they ment by compounding?

So your get a RoI of 310KP first which is 14% but then you can reinvest that 14% and then that 14% again ect and maybe way of thinking it becomes 20%?

So that 20% is a fictional 20% after several rounds.
But now we compare the RoI of 1 round vs multi rounds.

This means if we look at the same way to both system both have a 20% RoI

@Alcaro just because we did not use it doesn't mean we cannot point out the impossible.
According to you there is a system thats magically creating knowledge points out of nowhere. it's the same as free energy. that also does not exist. you can change energy from 1 form for example movemen, to heat but it will never create more heat as there is movement. thats is agains the law of nature.