What about the value of human interaction.

[Earwen1]

First of all: I strongly support charity and most of all, the people who volutarily work hard and with their heart to help other people. Make warm soup for neighbours, walk with elderly and so on. And without wanting payment for it, just because they are human. In the real world outside this fantasy place, we need them the most.

Last Friday the 21 October I saw the recruiting advertisement for people to replace Marindor and SyreArce and I have needed some days to digest it and put my feelings into words, choosing them very carefully as I find it a delicate subject. I do not want to hurt anyone, neither would I step on anyones feet or break any forum rules.

My main feelings about this are: flabbergasted and disappointed.

This advertisement shocked me, because this job is not rewarded with any salary. Innogames, not a charity organisation but a for-profit company with hundreds of employees, that has made revenues for over a billion, is not offering any wages for their people who do one of the most important jobs: direct and human communication with the customers / users of their products. The moderators of these forums are the ones who make the so much needed, human interaction between the people and the tech company in Hamburg. This job has value!

I find it very hard to digest.

Now I am not the biggest spender in this game, but I do pay sometimes because I see value of things and appreciate the work that people do.
Apparently, this company does not appreciate their own people, at least not enough to my point of view.

Therefor I have decided to stop contributing with payments, until all employees of Innogames get their fair wages too.

_________________________________
Edit: there is a lot more to say about this, but that would be too 'political' for this forums.

 

[Uffauffa]

I wrote the same in the Marindor's goodbye thread.
"Sorry" for you , I'm glad not to be the one with the same "feeling".
And you gave me a good idea...

 

[Earwen1]

What is your idea @Uffauffa ?

 

[Amy Steele]

@Earwen1 since your thread does not present an idea to be implemented within the game as such, I'm moving it to General Discussion where it properly belongs.

As to the views expressed, they are your own, and it is not my place to try to persuade you otherwise.

However, as a moderator on Elvenar beta since the game first launched, and before that, on Forge of Empires for a couple of years, I can say that for myself, firstly there are compensations other than monetary ones which mods enjoy. For me, one of these is working with some awesome team mates, another is the opportunity to help players, and to help keep the game running smoothly.

Secondly, in my own opinion, InnoGames does care about its Community Managers and the teams of moderators who volunteer their time for the games they love.

 

[Vaeri]

First of all: I strongly support charity and most of all, the people who volutarily work hard and with their heart to help other people. Make warm soup for neighbours, walk with elderly and so on. And without wanting payment for it, just because they are human. In the real world outside this fantasy place, we need them the most.

Thank you very much for pointing this out, Earwen. It can't be said enough: We are grateful for every moderator helping us voluntarily and we are forever grateful for all CMs and moderators who helped for us in the past.

Last Friday the 21 October I saw the recruiting advertisement for people to replace Marindor and SyreArce and I have needed some days to digest it and put my feelings into words, choosing them very carefully as I find it a delicate subject. I do not want to hurt anyone, neither would I step on anyones feet or break any forum rules.

It's pretty much understandable that it is not easy to move on after what happened and that it can be seen as unrespectful to start recruiting again. But we want to respect the moderators who decided to continue to be moderators for Elvenar Beta.
Most moderators have their full-time jobs and love to spend their free time with Elvenar and moderation. There are many different reasons why moderators join the team.
It's not a job and they are not employed at all. Moderators don't share the responsibilities of paid CMs, while CMs don't share the responsibilities of our Community Management Specialists.

Now I am not the biggest spender in this game, but I do pay sometimes because I see value of things and appreciate the work that people do.
Apparently, this company does not appreciate their own people, at least not enough to my point of view.

We put a lot of effort in appreciating the work of moderators - we want to be available for them as often as possible. We discuss topics with them and work together to improve Elvenar. But there is always room for more appreciation.
That people left our team isn't forgotten and we do our best to give our moderators the compensation they deserve.
We will go into discussions on how to improve further and want to make sure that every moderator and CM that support Elvenar Beta is happy being a member of our team.

 

[Earwen1]

@Earwen1 since your thread does not present an idea to be implemented within the game as such, I'm moving it to General Discussion where it properly belongs.

Thank you for moving it to the right place. I wasn't sure.

 

[Earwen1]

I do not know why moderators have left the team and what discussions are behind that.
Neither do I wish to speculate on that.
Neither do I seek to discuss that.

Just my main point, and I guess you just accidentely missed it in your qoute @Vaeri, is

Therefor I have decided to stop contributing with payments, until all employees of Innogames get their fair wages too.

Whether or not people are technically or legally employees does not matter, because I mean to say: all who work for the company, one way or another or in any way, should be compensated for value that they bring into this game and fora.

- Thank you for giving the opportunity to explain it better.

 

[DeletedUser2378]

It's not a job and they are not employed at all. Moderators don't share the responsibilities of paid CMs, while CMs don't share the responsibilities of our Community Management Specialists.

Freelance volunteer work is still self employment and it is a job. They are working for your company, voluntarily. To say they are not is diminishing everything a moderator does and disheartening to see a manager say. Of course they don’t have the same responsibilities as a manager or above. But where would a game be without their support staff?

 

[Vaeri]

Freelance volunteer work is still self employment and it is a job. They are working for your company, voluntarily. To say they are not is diminishing everything a moderator does and disheartening to see a manager say. Of course they don’t have the same responsibilities as a manager or above. But where would a game be without their support staff?

Thank you for making me notice that and correct me, you're right that it is a job. It's not true that "It's only a job when you earn money".
Housemaking is also a job, for example.

 

[Vaeri]

I do not know why moderators have left the team and what discussions are behind that.
Neither do I wish to speculate on that.
Neither do I seek to discuss that.

Just my main point, and I guess you just accidentely missed it in your qoute @Vaeri, is Whether or not people are technically or legally employees does not matter, because I mean to say: all who work for the company, one way or another or in any way, should be compensated for value that they bring into this game and fora.

- Thank you for giving the opportunity to explain it better.

All stakeholders learn about all constructive and valuable feedback shared by players. Thank you for creating this discussion thread!

 

[RugBug]

Congrats VAERI on Community Manager.


I have been saying this for literally more than a decade.
I have played all of Innogame's Games and have mentioned many many times about Support staff being unfairly treated and Innogames not paying them at all.
If a person looks at all of INNO-games how many people are working for free? Forum, Facebook, In game, And all their social media platforms such as Twutter, etc. With Hundreds of thousands of Players and a Ton of Support staff.
How can a company justify Not paying a wage to people?

No wonder good support staff like Marindor leave.
Compared all of Innogames....All the worlds, all the languages all the forums, and all the social media sites....and add up how many people are needed = that is a TON of people receiving nothing. No wonder the support positions are very hard to fill. I wonder if a class action suit has ever been suggested to compensate all the free time Inno support staff have put in for more than a decade?

With a customer base of 150 million players on Many successful and failed games Innogames support staff needs is absolutely HUGE. If a person were to add it up that would be a huge amount of dollars saved to Innogame and not paid to support staff who spend a huge amount of their time in MANY support roles.

Think on this. A Company with more than a Billion dollars in revenue, is listed in the stock market with a Share value of 87.15 sek and is owned by an investment group called Modern times Group out of Sweden.

How many thousands of Free unpaid volunteers do support work for a Billion dollar for profit company? If all those people were to be paid back wages how many Millions would Innogames owe????

Greatest respects to all the hard work put into by Marindor, Syrearca and Dimitryb and all the other support staff. Would they have to prove their hours if a class action suit were to be launched?

Take Marindor for instance. They worked over 6 years. And I bet they worked a ton of hours each week, I would think they should have been paid at the very least $20.00 a hour. How much would they have earned if they got a settlement check today???
Quick math... Say 5 hours a day, 52 weeks a year time 6 years at $ 20.00 AN HOUR????

Then multiply this number by the vast numbers of support staff???? A ton of money.

 

[salandrine]

Congrats VAERI on Community Manager.


I have been saying this for literally more than a decade.
I have played all of Innogame's Games and have mentioned many many times about Support staff being unfairly treated and Innogames not paying them at all.
If a person looks at all of INNO-games how many people are working for free? Forum, Facebook, In game, And all their social media platforms such as Twutter, etc. With Hundreds of thousands of Players and a Ton of Support staff.
How can a company justify Not paying a wage to people?

No wonder good support staff like Marindor leave.
Compared all of Innogames....All the worlds, all the languages all the forums, and all the social media sites....and add up how many people are needed = that is a TON of people receiving nothing. No wonder the support positions are very hard to fill. I wonder if a class action suit has ever been suggested to compensate all the free time Inno support staff have put in for more than a decade?

With a customer base of 150 million players on Many successful and failed games Innogames support staff needs is absolutely HUGE. If a person were to add it up that would be a huge amount of dollars saved to Innogame and not paid to support staff who spend a huge amount of their time in MANY support roles.

Think on this. A Company with more than a Billion dollars in revenue, is listed in the stock market with a Share value of 87.15 sek and is owned by an investment group called Modern times Group out of Sweden.

How many thousands of Free unpaid volunteers do support work for a Billion dollar for profit company? If all those people were to be paid back wages how many Millions would Innogames owe????

Greatest respects to all the hard work put into by Marindor, Syrearca and Dimitryb and all the other support staff. Would they have to prove their hours if a class action suit were to be launched?

Take Marindor for instance. They worked over 6 years. And I bet they worked a ton of hours each week, I would think they should have been paid at the very least $20.00 a hour. How much would they have earned if they got a settlement check today???
Quick math... Say 5 hours a day, 52 weeks a year time 6 years at $ 20.00 AN HOUR????

Then multiply this number by the vast numbers of support staff???? A ton of money.

Every person has its own decision. And the stuff made up their decisions to work with Inno on Inno's terms, which they all knew before they started. Nobody is forced to work to Inno's conditions. They do it voluntarily

You cant really know, if these people earn other things, like ie. "a good Feeling" or they learn to interact in previous situations and so on.

So you are not the laywer of all these people, arnt you?

I feel free to place this question: Are you trolling?

 

[RugBug]

Congrats VAERI on Community Manager.


I have been saying this for literally more than a decade.
I have played all of Innogame's Games and have mentioned many many times about Support staff being unfairly treated and Innogames not paying them at all.
If a person looks at all of INNO-games how many people are working for free? Forum, Facebook, In game, And all their social media platforms such as Twutter, etc. With Hundreds of thousands of Players and a Ton of Support staff.
How can a company justify Not paying a wage to people?

No wonder good support staff like Marindor leave.
Compared all of Innogames....All the worlds, all the languages all the forums, and all the social media sites....and add up how many people are needed = that is a TON of people receiving nothing. No wonder the support positions are very hard to fill. I wonder if a class action suit has ever been suggested to compensate all the free time Inno support staff have put in for more than a decade?

With a customer base of 150 million players on Many successful and failed games Innogames support staff needs is absolutely HUGE. If a person were to add it up that would be a huge amount of dollars saved to Innogame and not paid to support staff who spend a huge amount of their time in MANY support roles.

Every person has its own decision. And the stuff made up their decisions to work with Inno on Inno's terms, which they all knew before they started. Nobody is forced to work to Inno's conditions. They do it voluntarily

You cant really know, if these people earn other things, like ie. "a good Feeling" or they learn to interact in previous situations and so on.

So you are not the laywer of all these people, arnt you?

I feel free to place this question: Are you trolling?

Well said and thank you for your post, and a quick answer to your Question. No, I am not trolling. Some days are better than others, but every once in a while, A person has a bad day. That unfortunately was one of them.