Discussion Tournament Changes (post-release)

[edeba]

No, your seeds would decline by a rate of 10% then they are declining. With 10% off a 10% rate of decline is effectively 1%. 10% off and 5% rate of decline is effectively 0.5%.

So would my seeds then start multiplying instead of decaying?

 

[Arthus]

We have reached the conclusion in our fellowship that they try to punish players for playing big and long.

You should be able to do more and more when you grow your city, and they increase difficulty more and more for developed players to prevent that.

 

[guivou]

5th day:
I managed to make 14 provinces out of 14 in auto combat.

is your army at the same level than at the beginning of the week ? because it's big difference of managed to make 14 provinces , and be able to do that every week , army production must be aligned with losses

for example this week in live with a city in haflings i manage to climb the spire (mostly manual fight) and make 5 round 30 province out of 32 in auto combat , but i am not able to do that every week : used 400 hours of time booster and 200% tools to rebuild army (my city is less than one year old so without bear ), it was something i prepared for weeks with a goal to be able to do that every week after improving my city (but probably never with tourney changes )

by the way it takes me less time to do 30 x 4 autofight combats than 8 manual one in spire , so less click is sometime not less time ...

 

[palmira]

Review:
Fairly balanced tournament. Even without military advantage and with only troops from the barracks, we can make 14 provinces in automatic combat.
I like the fact that it is not the same troops that are requested.

Next week, I'll do the negotiations and keep you posted

You are joking, right? Or working for Inno, maybe? Fairly balanced? This absolutely is not balanced, is insanely unbalanced, as in having an enemy squad size of almost 100k in the first round of province 45. For comparison sake, live, same tourney, much more powerful city, 6th round of province 73, I have an enemy squad size 22,9 K, basically 1/5.

 

[DeletedUser1739]

is your army at the same level than at the beginning of the week ? because it's big difference of managed to make 14 provinces , and be able to do that every week , army production must be aligned with losses

Between the start of the tournament and the end of it, there was no change in my city.

You are joking, right? Or working for Inno, maybe? Fairly balanced? This absolutely is not balanced, is insanely unbalanced, as in having an enemy squad size of almost 100k in the first round of province 45. For comparison sake, live, same tourney, much more powerful city, 6th round of province 73, I have an enemy squad size 22,9 K, basically 1/5.

You compare my 14 provinces to your 45. It's impossible.
I did what a majority of players do, who only do 10/15 provinces per tournament.
Not everyone is a big scorer

 

[Deleted User - 81190]

As far as i know no one knows the exact formula, and so what factors are affecting the cost the most. @MinMax Gamer seems to have a theory, based on what he worked out for the spire and some peoples findings for this first tournament.

Ahem, that's not a theory anymore. I have posted a full tournament calculator that pretty much explains all the calculations for this round of the tournament. This includes base SS based on AW levels, provinces, research and boosts, as well as ramp up through the provinces. I have several players confirming that the results match (outside of rounding errors), so this is not a fluke.

You can play with all the parameters (e.g. +/- AW levels), and see how your squad sizes and catering costs change for all provinces.

EDIT: Make sure you do forced refresh, as some people have seen cached old version. You should see "Full Tournament Requirements Calculator" section.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Is it looking like full catering is back on the table as an option now? Is it feasible for mid- to end-game players to get rid of all military AWs and go full catering for spire and tourney?

This is very hard to answer. If inno gives out great resource sets like harvest or winter, then yes as long as you're not talking about much more than 1600 points. (There is no full caterer consistently getting 15K tournament points before or after the changes.)

It's not other players effect me. It's me myself would be forced to spend some useful resource instead of already prepared guest race goods.

Let's be real though, me spending 5, 10 or even 100K goods so that someone else doesn't have to spend a week or 2 rebuilding a portal set is fine.

Totally agree there on the lack of a diverse income stream that targets different price point niches.
They could introduce subscriptions....

When I left I decided to delve back into MMOs and spent hours and hours looking at and testing before finally settling on WoW. The subscription model generates so much income that the game is simply better than any F2P is likely to be. That said, if inno went that way, even if it was freemium(optional sub), I would expect a serious change in how long updates/bug fixes/QOL improvements took. Like removing the optional SS penalty would be a 1-2 day thing, not ~3 years, or the FA quest cycling fixes would have been a few weeks in the making etc.

Easy modifications that would allow so much more individualism in each city, and that would target the casuals and the masses and it takes 0 extra time in art design for resisdences and workshops and a little for example the alternative skin for a armory but that pays itself back easy.
and you only need to build the system once.
Many simple easy cheap things to individualise your city.
Having options to customise your avatar with a hat, glasses, hat whatever, thats how microtransactions should work.

Absolutely this. For years I've wanted a way to be able to support the game developers without any P2W for my cities and skins is my favorite suggestion.

How sad is it when they make a new skin for your barracks level 30,31,32,33 but you upgrade all 4 levels in a week?
It's a total waste of artwork, but if for XXX diamonds you can make your level 33 look like a level 31*, that's something people would do.

*random numbers in the example, I forget what everything looked like or even what levels were unlocked together.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

How sad is it when they make a new skin for your barracks level 30,31,32,33 but you upgrade all 4 levels in a week?
It's a total waste of artwork, but if for XXX diamonds you can make your level 33 look like a level 31, that's something people would do.

Or you could be totally inefficient in your city design and stop one building at each upgrade level, so that they all look a little different. For a building you will have more than one or two of in your city, that would not be too bad.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Or you could be totally inefficient in your city design and stop one building at each upgrade level, so that they all look a little different. For a building you will have more than one or two of in your city, that would not be too bad.

I've seen a city like that and it's very pretty, but I could never do that. I'm absolutely a numbers guy first.

 

[Yogi Dave]

How sad is it when they make a new skin for your barracks level 30,31,32,33 but you upgrade all 4 levels in a week?
It's a total waste of artwork, but if for XXX diamonds you can make your level 33 look like a level 31*, that's something people would do.

Example of lost artwork. How many people noticed where the swordsmen stepped before moving in to the new level:

 

[Pauly7]

No, your seeds would decline by a rate of 10% then they are declining. With 10% off a 10% rate of decline is effectively 1%. 10% off and 5% rate of decline is effectively 0.5%.

Oh I see what you're saying... 10% off the normal decay rate.

Sounds like that maths would be a bit too complex for Inno though. They like to just add and subtract whole numbers.

 

[Pauly7]

Example of lost artwork. How many people noticed where the swordsmen stepped before moving in to the new level:

I've never spotted that before!

 

[Richord]

There are way too many posts and way to big stories and no easy way of getting all the info.
We really need an option for an open page or so, where we can add our points (shortly).
well, maybe it's been answered or maybe not; @Marindor what is going to happen with all the old researches?
I don't think inno can expect us to built many old guestraces, which will takes months, to research old optional squadsizes... right?

 

[Pauly7]

well, maybe it's been answered or maybe not; @Marindor what is going to happen with all the old researches?
I don't think inno can expect us to built many old guestraces, which will takes months, to research old optional squadsizes... right?

They've announced that they're amending those so people will be able to complete them without the guest race goods.

 

[DeletedUser2300]

Why is everybody so sure about that ?

Do me a favor, do not quote a portion of my statement to drive your narrative. Below are my exact words. If you are not a loyal player and just buy diamonds just because, cool but do not copy a section of my words when an "and" is involved.

Casual players are not the ones who buy diamonds, it is your hardcore players and players who been loyal to you.

 

[DeletedUser1657]

by the way it takes me less time to do 30 x 4 autofight combats than 8 manual one in spire , so less click is sometime not less time ...

That is not just more time but more clicks. That is one thing with a push back to manual combat, it will take a lot more time and clicks. Both auto and manual requires the same clicks to select an army but with auto its 1 more click to finish, manual is a bunch more directing your army.

I don't think inno can expect us to built many old guestraces, which will takes months, to research old optional squadsizes... right?

It was mentioned that they plan to review guest race goods from the optional SS techs. It is however unclear if the benefit will be worth the cost.

 

[baypen]

Do me a favor, do not quote a portion of my statement to drive your narrative. Below are my exact words. If you are not a loyal player and just buy diamonds just because, cool but do not copy a section of my words when an "and" is involved.

Casual players are not the ones who buy diamonds, it is your hardcore players and players who been loyal to you.

Ok, sorry for that, but seems that in your opinion casual players cannot be loyal players too. With this I cannot agree, sorry.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Casual players are not the ones who buy diamonds, it is your hardcore players and players who been loyal to you.

Still sounds like
Casual players = no diamonds
Hardcore = diamonds.
Loyal = diamonds

Or did you mean " Casual players are not the ONLY ones who buy diamonds, it is ALSO your hardcore players and ALL players who been loyal to you." ?

 

[The Fairy]

First, sorry for not reading through all previous posts, so I may repost what has already been said here.

Here is my feedback after the first week with the new tournament. And sorry, this is going to be a long post

Fewer Tournament Encounters per Province

I LOVE this change and cannot wait for getting it in live worlds. The fewer encounters will save me a LOT of time!

Catering Costs

I didn't cater at all this first week, and I don't have anything to compare with as I don't usually do much tourney in my beta city and my live cities aren't comparable to my beta city at all. But from what I have read it will be too expensive to cater once the tourney starts requiring orcs and mana. Catering might still be a good option for smaller cities - but I don't know.


Battle Difficulties

My beta city is only for "spying" on new stuff, so I have never played that city much or played much tourney there. My beta city is somewhere in chapter 4 and have no fire phoenix, no brown bear, no fighting wonders (only wonder is a level 5 GA) - so not much help on tourney there compared to my other cities, and hard to compare with my other cities. I do have a decent amount of troops and goods there though. This week I had 6 provinces and I did all 6 rounds giving 1620 points which is what is needed on average in a full fellowship for 10 chests. I fought everything, although with some losses (but I would also expect that - I don't expect 10 chests for free). Based on this I would think the battle difficulties are ok for those able to do 5 or 6 rounds and going for around 1600 points or less.

But I wonder how it will be for cities used to do e.g. 5k points or more in tourney? In my big city (which just started halflings) I used to do 2 rounds of all provinces for KP, and I recently started doing 5 rounds in most provinces for even more KP. So something like 5 rounds in 30 provinces and 2 rounds in any extra provinces (usually few). Will it still be possible to get about the same amount of KP from tourney every week? If it is then I assume I will need to make adjustments somehow, which is fine for me. Or is it the intention that this should not be possible anymore? From what I have read it will be much harder to do this, but I can't check it myself - I will certainly be missing the KP if this is the case!

More Random Enemy Troops

Enlightened Light Range and Magnificient Mage Multiplier buildings won't be very useful with this chang

We will need to train all kinds of troops every week. This is hard if you don't have many troops but if you can save up a decent amount of each troop type then I think this will be doable. Then you can always just train what you are lowest in. But it does require us to save up a decent amount of each troop time.

I think this change will make it a lot harder for new players to learn to fight. I have learned a lot by being able to focus on a few enemy troop combinations every week and then study those and reading e.g. the hints on elvengems. And discussing with my fellows what troops they are using and what works for them. This will be harder if the troops are random.

So my initial feeling about this change is that I don't like it. I think one of the reasons for this change was to make the tourney less repetitive, but I think this has already been obtained by the fewer encounters in each province.

9 Extra Chests

The rewards for those are certainly less than the 10th chest, but I actually like this since they are so hard to get. I would still like those extra chests, since I never seem to have enough RR spells even though my big city has been in a 10 chest fellowship for about a year. Since it will be REALLY difficult to get chest 19 I am REALLY happy that the best reward is not in chest 19 but in chest 10.

 

[edeba]

At 5k it is possible for some players. The higher your average score, the less possible...

But I wonder how it will be for cities used to do e.g. 5k points or more in tourney? ... Will it still be possible to get about the same amount of KP from tourney every week?