Scouting times

[DeletedUser651]

Can we please talk about scouting times? I understand that Inno wants to sell expansions and I get that there can't be a game unless they make money, but at some point, the scouting times are just a killer.

(As an example, I have been playing Elvenar nearly every day since the US world started. I have had my scouts going nearly non stop (excepting sleep times and a couple of days for vacation). I a STILL seven expansions away from what everyone got in the dwarves! I am years...yes years...away from having all the space that people have in fairies. Until the dwarves, the scouting times were in line. You could eventually get the expansions that the rest of the world got by buying them, but you were a month or two behind, not years.)

Even the payers are discouraged by the huge scouting times. This is a game, not real life. I can clear the ground for a real house faster than I can in Elvenar.

Plus, as the game progresses and buildings get huge, one little expansion doesn't get you much. It is frustrating that you have to wait more than two months just to have the space to place one culture building.


Can we please balance this out just a little?

 

[DeletedUser1596]

I think that scouting time is fine or rather too fast. I don't want more expansions. More space means just more buildings of the same type, which means just more clicking every day. Now I have 50 residental buildings and there's no point in having another 10. The city does not change, it just grows in size.

 

[DeletedUser651]

Let me be more specific. Scouting times are too long when you get deep in the game. I guess I didn't mean they were too long for the earlier players, but when they get longer than 36 hours, that is too extreme.

 

[DeletedUser283]

52 hours ....

 

[DeletedUser317]

61 hours.....

 

[CrazyWizard]

It seems the code is more complex than expected, but on the dutch forum for a while I maintained a scouting list.
Unfortunatly it seemed that time is not based on cost, but it seems to be based on other factors like distance.

My current hypothesis is that every province has a "time" based on distance/ring and provinces explored with the same ring.
then the times of each "ring" are somehow calculated and this defines the new exploration time.
I have seen quite a few numbers that did not match the "coin" value even close.

Coins	Time	Chapter
100	4 sec	1
200	4 sec	1
300	4 sec	1
410	1 min	1
510	1 min 1 sec	1
630	1 min 1 sec	1
780	2 min 1 sec	1
920	2 min 1 sec	1
1.100	3 min 1 sec	1
1.200	3 min 1 sec	1
2.300	7 min 1 sec	1
2.500	7 min 1 sec	1
9.400	24 min 1 sec	1
67.000	1uur 59min	4
69.000	2uur 2min	4
72.000	2uur 6min	4
88.000	2uur 29min	4
91.000	2uur 33min	4
97.000	2uur 44min	4
110.000	2uur 53min	4
110.000	3uur 1min	4
120.000	3uur 6min	4
130.000	3uur 19min	4
130.000	3uur 23min	4
140.000	3uur 39min	4
190.000	4uur 34min	4
190.000	4uur 42min	4
260.000	5uur 59 min	4
270.000	6uur 5min	5
270.000	6uur 6min	4
370.000	7uur 53min	5
400.000	8uur 20min	6
470.000	9uur 33min	6
580.000	11uur 18min	5
580.000	11uur 23min	5
610.000	11uur 41min	6
620.000	11uur 52min	6
660.000	12uur 28min	5
920.000	16uur 23 min	6
940.000	16uur 36 min	6
970.000	17uur 3 min	6
1.100.000	19uur 5 min	6
1.200.000	20uur 12 min	6
1.200.000	19uur 39 min	6
1.300.000	21uur 8 min	6
1.500.000	1 dag 0uur	4
1.500.000	23 Uur 40min	6
1.600.000	1 day 1uur	6
1.600.000	1 day 1uur	6
1.700.000	1 day 2uur	6
1.800.000	1day 4uur	6
1.900.000	1day 4uur	6
1.900.000	1day 5uur	6
2.000.000	1day 7uur	6
2.200.000	1day 8uur	6
2.400.000	1day 10uur	6
2.600.000	1da 13uur	6
2.700.000	1day 14uur	6
2.800.000	1day 15uur	6
3.000.000	1day 17uur	6
3.100.000	1day 18uur	6
3.500.000	1day 23uur	6
3.500.000	2days 0uur	6
3.600.000	2days 1uur	6
3.900.000	2days 3uur	6
4.000.000	2days 5uur	6
4.200.000	2days 6uur	6
4.200.000	2days 7uur	6
4.700.000	2days 12uur	6
4.800.000	2days 13uur	6
4.900.000	2days 14uur	6
5.300.000	2days 18uur	6
5.400.000	2days 15uur	6

 

[Lissona]

...... It is frustrating that you have to wait more than two months just to have the space to place one culture building.

Your scouting times is 6 days? Or how do you calculate 10 provinces = 2 months?

 

[DeletedUser651]

It takes 2 expansions to place one pond.

An expansion is 9 provinces.
Each province is roughly 3 days
3 times 9 equals 27 days...or roughly one month for the first expansion.
double that for the second expansion..so two months.

Crazy Wizard, that is fabulous information!!! Thank you so much for all that data!!!

 

[Lissona]

It takes 2 expansions to place one pond.

An expansion is 9 provinces.
Each province is roughly 3 days
3 times 9 equals 27 days...or roughly one month for the first expansion.
double that for the second expansion..so two months.

And we totally ignore that - when placing a new and better cultural bulding - we tear down the old one (which is in your example the Temple of Holy Fire). So that we only need a plus of 5 squares and not 50 (= 2 expansions) to place the pond?

Even if you want to place the pond additionally (later on) - most people have enough wasted space, by restructuring their city they would only need one expansion.

 

[DeletedUser651]

If you don't want to discuss the issue, then don't Lissona.

 

[DeletedUser1075]

I think the point here is that if you are not using diamonds, it takes a long time to get expansions. I require 10 more expansions to fill my grid, beyond what I can get from the tech tree. Each expansion requires 9 provinces to unlock, and I have gone beyond 48 hours to scout a province. 90 provinces, at ~3 days each (since the time keeps increasing, that's a reasonable compromise but probably still understating things) is equal to 270 days. Nine more months just to get the space.

Doesn't that feel long? Now consider that my job permits me to check in often enough to stay on top of the scouts. Someone who cannot access the game at work is going to take even longer to get through provinces, because they won't be able to send out a new scout as soon as the original one finishes.

Yes, I can be placing buildings during that time. That isn't really the point though. Should it take 9 months for a very active player who doesn't use diamonds to get access to the space that diamond-using players have already? As a comparison, most theatrical releases get to DVD sooner.

Look at it another way - how fast do you think you'll get the runes for the new fairy wonders?

 

[DeletedUser651]

Maybe if there is a cap somewhere between 36-48 hours?

 

[DeletedUser1075]

I'm not sure about the cap. I actually feel that there is a nice correlation between how many coins I accumulate and the scouting time. It's not perfect, but a reasonably close fit. That said, I also feel that the wait time to get a new expansion is long enough to demotivate many of us who are not using coins regularly.

There are a few options...
1. Make expansions available for fewer province completes.
2. Reduce scouting times.
3. Create spells to accomplish one or both of the above.
4. Add rewards into the tournaments that might include an extra expansion for completing certain requirements.

The last seems most reasonable.

 

[DeletedUser]

The most likely interpretation of the lack of alleviation for scouting times is Pay or Leave. By the time you get to Fairy Level, if you haven't decided to spend money in the game, they don't want you to continue using their server time for free.

This is the litmus test. Elvenar is a "free to play" game...so long as you represent a marketing opportunity. Once you've proven that you won't give into the sales pressure, they pressure you out.

If we see some improvement for long term low/no pay players, I'll happily retract this theory. Otherwise, we might as well start advising beginning players that the fun is short-lived.

 

[DeletedUser1095]

Even leaving the expansions aside, waiting 3 days + for something to do (set a new scout, fight/negotiate the scouted province) is too long.

 

[CrazyWizard]

thats how it works, and honoustly not many people would be able to afford the scout of it's that much quicker.
I dont have much of a problem by the game slowing down, and with new game extensions times drop again, creating some kick, love that kick.

7,6m from a province aint a little amount.

 

[DeletedUser1095]

... If that's a reply to me, you'll have to explain more clearly.

"not many people would be able to afford the scout of it's that much quicker" - if it's how much quicker?? and why couldn't they afford it any more or less than they can afford it now??? If that's a concern you're very welcome to agitate for cheaper scouting costs.

"with new game extensions times drop again" - I reckon you mean the advanced scouting technology, which reduces scouting costs. If it also increases the scout's speed, it hasn't been enough to notice.

"7,6m from a province aint a little amount" - I didn't say it was. But that doesn't make it fun to wait three and a third days with nothing to do.

 

[CrazyWizard]

... If that's a reply to me, you'll have to explain more clearly.

"not many people would be able to afford the scout of it's that much quicker" - if it's how much quicker?? and why couldn't they afford it any more or less than they can afford it now??? If that's a concern you're very welcome to agitate for cheaper scouting costs.

"with new game extensions times drop again" - I reckon you mean the advanced scouting technology, which reduces scouting costs. If it also increases the scout's speed, it hasn't been enough to notice.

"7,6m from a province aint a little amount" - I didn't say it was. But that doesn't make it fun to wait three and a third days with nothing to do.

I understand that you dont like the game slowing down, but thats how 99,9% of the online games are designed. (and all offline RPG's)
if you dont slow down the pace, people are quickly burned up and leave the game again, it's a good and proven design.

if you have to pay 7+ million to scout a province, not many will be able to get that amount of cash in lets say a day's time. Unless your in the center of the game with nearing 300 neigbours to whom you can do neighbourly help, most people at best are able to collect between 2-3m a day, especially with those snails (Innogames moneymaker)

therefore the time vs scouting cost vs required goods/troops is pretty wel in balance.

btw when a day si the longest time you feel thats to long as well, and it should be shorter, it's something we all feel, we as humans are impatient and greedy it's in our nature.

Long before you reach those 3 days scouts the game has already slowed down a lot. and your waiting issue has been solved by tournaments, they can be your daily fix most of the time. guess it was designed to keep those bored busy.

 

[DeletedUser1095]

I don't know why you think I'm talking about 1 day. My scouting times are 3 days +. I have barely any active neighbours and I'm struggling to reach a city I know is active. I'm glad the waiting time is not an issue for you, but it is for many of us, which is why we're talking about it.

 

[DeletedUser]

I'd think that the long scouting times are mostly problemmatic for players who don't buy expansions. For example, I bought expansions along the way so now, ending Fairy, I have 6 unused expansions.