Discussion Runeshard Changes

[30158729]

This is a very welcome update. Since I havent seen it mentioned yet the amount of kp you can receive is tied to the amount of kp you have donated. You cant have one person receiving thousands of kp from others without donating some too, at least not in one day. It isnt much of a limit at some hundreds of kp but it does exist. Maybe this is innos way to stop push accounts?

 

[smallgnome]

I really like this new feature. For me, this is the best thing that appeared in the game after the appearance of the spire. Thanks! I don't see any problem in the large addition of kp, all these flows will only be for the first time, because all good things tend to end quickly) I really don't want the number of kp per rune to decrease.

 

[SoggyShorts]

! I don't see any problem in the large addition of kp, all these flows will only be for the first time, because all good things tend to end quickly)

Fair point, there may be some top 1% players with 100K KP, but once that's gone "problem" solved.

 

[little bee]

well, there are all kind of types of players not only your type @little bee . Some will want to get those runes from last round, some will not care at all. If you want to play casual and relaxing, then do not complain about not filling the gap between casual players and competitive players. It's your personal choice how to play this game but IMHO you can't have both goodies - casual playing and being competitive and top player. It's one or another.

It has nothing to do with wanting to be competitive. It is simply about game balance.
In higher chapters KP are one of the most usefull daily prizes from events. But if the 6th round of a single tournament gives more prizes than an entire month long event, then that 6th round is more important than the event. And that means that the game is no longer about logging in regulary and casually playing long events for a few minutes each time. It is now about logging in at specific times which completly changes the character of the game.
Also please, lets not pretend that such a massive infusion of KP into the game is something I can just choose to ignore. Sooner or later, there will need to be some sort of rebalancing wich will affect everyone. For example, look at the huge amount of KP needed in the research of the higher chapters. Those numbers are almost certainly due to a rebalancing to the extra KP from tournament. But for players, who don't want to play the tournament, this is a problem. Something similar will probably happen again.

I'm not saying that turning runes into KP is a bad thing. But the numbers should be balanced.

 

[Karvest]

Don't mess KP for research with AWKP generated from these runeshards.

 

[CrazyWizard]

But if the 6th round of a single tournament gives more prizes than an entire month long event, then that 6th round is more important than the event. And that means that the game is no longer about logging in
I'm not saying that turning runes into KP is a bad thing. But the numbers should be balanced.

Newsflash, tournaments at every moment in time in the game always have given potential more KP in a single week than any event in a single month, I would even dare to say that a single tournament can generate more KP than all events in a year combined.
I mean I have grabbed over 800KP in a single tournament in the past.

So nothing new on the horizon there.

Don't mess KP for research with AWKP generated from these runeshards.

Yeah you can't turn wonder KP into regular ones.

 

[Alcaro]

@little bee
6th round is a killer (beside the other). I usually stop latest at 10th province after the 2nd round, this means no runes for me. If I insist doing, let's say 20-30 provinces x 6 rounds, this will imply using (read slaughtering) an enormous amount of troops and/ or goods. Those troops aren't a gift, I have costs to get them. So, I think I would be entitled to some sort of compensation for all the hard work.

Also, another aspect of this feature is the amount of available runes. End players have a lot of them due to years of playing and doing tourny. Let's not start again the debate about how beginners should be equal with old timers. They shouldn't. Period.

 

[SoggyShorts]

If I have to choose between loosing 30% of my weekly KP or going to bed an hour later than usual, I will probably choose to quit the game in order to protect my health
....
lets not pretend that such a massive infusion of KP into the game is something I can just choose to ignore.

Sounds like a good motive to get a polar bear/timewarp. The great news is that not only can you reach that chapter faster, once you get that timewarp this new feature will help you level it faster.
win/win/win

 

[edeba]

I think the way they've set it up is OK. Sure long time players who have played aggressively and strong tournaments have a lot of runes, but it is 7 years of accumulation. I think overall the balance and choice is fine. I remember on beta we had a glitch that gave us hundreds of extra runes, and that has to be counted in some people's estimates here.

I suspect that average player in a FS that wasn't making 10 chest each week has less that 10% of the runes of an aggressive player so the decision shouldn't be made based on aggressive players, but more, average players.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Interestingly I'm hearing about some pushback from players who don't want to value runes at 15 KP in the Net0 swap.
If you need the runes as runes for your own wonder, no real loss since while leveling that wonder you reap the KP rewards from being in the swap.

The way I see it in net0 you used to get a ~20% discount on wonders, now you'll get close to a ~35% discount which more than makes up for the rare occasion where you no longer get free runes. Paying 650 KP out of pocket to get my 1,000 KP wonder leveled is amazing.

 

[little bee]

Don't mess KP for research with AWKP generated from these runeshards.

I'm not confusing them. I know they cannot be turned into KP for research. So rebalancing the game for this change would not come in the form of making research cost more KP. But if leveling AWs suddenly becomes much easier, then the developers will assume that we all have leveled up wonders. And that will likely manifest itselve in future chapters or events in some way or an other.

Newsflash, tournaments at every moment in time in the game always have given potential more KP in a single week than any event in a single month, I would even dare to say that a single tournament can generate more KP than all events in a year combined.
I mean I have grabbed over 800KP in a single tournament in the past.

99% of all players do not have 600+ provinces scouted, let alone fight them all during tournament. Even if you do 10k points per tournament (around 37 provinces 6 rounds) you would currently get less than 400KP wich is still comparable to an event (with 20 AWKP as dailies). With these changes just the 6th round of the tournament could outdo either of those. And just because something is already somewhat broken is no justification to break it completly.

I suspect that average player in a FS that wasn't making 10 chest each week has less that 10% of the runes of an aggressive player so the decision shouldn't be made based on aggressive players, but more, average players.

O.k. fair enough. Lets say you only play 9 provinces per week to round 5. Then you get 54KP and 6 runes wich could be turned into 90 AWKP. Only you will likely need the runes for your runecircles. Now try to imagine how you will feel if one of your runes breaks and turnes into a shard. And in the mean time other players are instantly leveling the entire wonder to 30 with practically no effort at all.
And please, don't forget what a massive handicap this will be for App-players compared to the browser version. In the App you do not even get an explination on how initiative and range work, let alone the chance to practice with it.

Sounds like a good motive to get a polar bear/timewarp. The great news is that not only can you reach that chapter faster, once you get that timewarp this new feature will help you level it faster.
win/win/win

Easier said than done, timewarp is a chapter 14 wonder and, to the best of my knowledge, there are currently no bear artifacts in crafting. And, honestly, racing through the chapters would ruin the game for me.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Easier said than done, timewarp is a chapter 14 wonder and, to the best of my knowledge, there are currently no bear artifacts in crafting. And, honestly, racing through the chapters would ruin the game for me.

When fed, even a level 1 Polar Bear will drop the wait time by around an hour and a half. Waiting 14 1/2 hours, instead of 16 hours, makes a big difference for some people and makes getting two rounds done in one day possible without losing sleep. Also, all bases and artifacts that have been added to the crafting rotation with their current system are still active and can show up. There are just so many now that they are rare.

 

[Karvest]

Even if you do 10k points per tournament (around 37 provinces 6 rounds) you would currently get less than 400KP wich is still comparable to an event (with 20 AWKP as dailies).

Those who were aiming for KP/AWKP in tourneys usually stopped at 5 rounds + have a good FS with 16+chests, so earned much more than 400KP for the same 10k+. Now they won't stop at 5 rounds and both get more individual rewards and contribute more points for their FS to achieve better chest.

 

[Hazel Caballus]

I believe that the value now attached to the runes might be a bit too high, but in the end it won’t matter much. The highly competitive long-term players already have the AW they want at the level they want to have them. The new feature will help the next generation of competitive players to reach that spot earlier (until they will also stop upgrading their AWs). However, the feature will always benefit casual players as they will probably never reach that spot and will always be in need of ancient knowledge to upgrade the wonders they urgently want to have.

And please, don't forget what a massive handicap this will be for App-players compared to the browser version. In the App you do not even get an explination on how initiative and range work, let alone the chance to practice with it.

I am quite certain that a lot of browser players also don’t know much about how initiative and range work, let alone the patience and time to do manual fight many hours a week.
I’ve often argued that App players are at a disadvantage because they can’t see the terrain, but both App players as well as browser players using auto fight have proven to deliver good results in the tourney. Even if you’d say that they still can’t compete with maybe the top 1% of tournament players, it is not an issue for this feature because the vast majority of Elvenar players can’t compete with the top 1% either

 

[DeletedUser3773]

Easier said than done, timewarp is a chapter 14 wonder and, to the best of my knowledge, there are currently no bear artifacts in crafting. And, honestly, racing through the chapters would ruin the game for me.

As SoggyShorts & Enevhar Aldarion said, the polar bear is very helpful to shorten the wait for Tourney even at Level 1. I got one as soon as I realized this when I was in Ch. 4 thereabouts(Live). I couldn't level it until we had the pandabear swap for regular bears in the MA and now I'm at level 6 in Ch. 14(Live). It's only 1% per level but starting at 10% is very helpful. It took awhile but I definitely benefitted from it all the while because I get to the 6 round in Tourney routinely while doing at least 10 provinces or more if I've got boosts.

Now try to imagine how you will feel if one of your runes breaks and turnes into a shard. And in the mean time other players are instantly leveling the entire wonder to 30 with practically no effort at all.

I'm not sure sometimes if rebalancing the game is your only motive for objecting. Your reference to other players leveling up while you might not be able to suggests wanting to equalize opportunity for advancement between different chapter players.

 

[TomatoeHu]

i like the changes, although it would be better if the runes were worth 20kp, the math might be easier for everyone in our net zero swap and by everyone i meant me

 

[little bee]

I am quite certain that a lot of browser players also don’t know much about how initiative and range work, let alone the patience and time to do manual fight many hours a week.

It's not about actually doing manual fighting. It about being able to watch the fights auto-finish a few times. That is how you learn which units are good in which situation. Learning to fight on the app is like trying to learn chess without ever seeing a board.

I'm not sure sometimes if rebalancing the game is your only motive for objecting. Your reference to other players leveling up while you might not be able to suggests wanting to equalize opportunity for advancement between different chapter players.

You can stop trying to second-guess my motives, because I have stated them quite clearly:

-I want the rewards of different game aspects (events, event-buildings, tournament, spire) to be balanced with each other.
-I want the rewards of different tournament rounds to be balanced with each other.
-I want to prevent the gap between different playertypes from widening too far. In particular, I think it should remain possible to play the game without events, tournaments or spire. (It would be slow of course, but it should be possible) At the same time, I do not want the game to be completly trivialized for the top players.
-I do not want to have all the effort, I put into my wonders so far, devaluated by having all of them fully leveled all of a sudden.
-And yes, I suppose I want the game to be balanced between different chapters as well.

Turning runes into 15 AWKP each, threatens all of these goals. None of your arguments are even trying to show that they don't. You are all just arguing that things were allready unbalanced. But just because things wern't perfect before, doesn't justify breaking them further.

 

[DeletedUser3726]

@Alcaro please DON'T fill up my monastery or Golden Abyss.
I noticed this spire and tournament, I have trouble fighting.
The difficult calculator Inno put in the game to make it harder is so broken that I can't handle any more levels in the 2 wonders I have.
Golden Abbys level 8 and Monastery level 3 and I can fight the first 2 ghosts at the spire and nothing more.
I also can fight the first 5 province of the tournament and the rest I have to buy.
They should really check their formulas and adjust them for lower level players.

I have a chapter 5 & chapter 6 city. Both have needles & martial monastery at level 18/22 or something around that. When I played consistently I completed the Spire weekly since unlocking ch 3.
Perhaps there are assets you have yet to utilise?

 

[DeletedUser3726]

Instead of giving us KP for runes, go back to the old tourney format and let us farm KP that way

You kind of can with this new system. Just play make sure you complete the rounds that give runes. Instant 10-15kp per encounter.

 

[DeletedUser3726]

I really like this new feature. For me, this is the best thing that appeared in the game after the appearance of the spire. Thanks! I don't see any problem in the large addition of kp, all these flows will only be for the first time, because all good things tend to end quickly) I really don't want the number of kp per rune to decrease.

I agree. I went on a sharing spree throughout my neighbourhood and dropped runes left right and centre before inno decided it was an oopsie