• Dear forum reader,

    To actively participate on the forum by joining discussions or starting your own threads or topics, you need a game account and to REGISTER HERE!

[Military]Countering ranged units?

DeletedUser517

Guest
Hi

Here is a feedback about my ingame experience of Elvenar and its military system.
I am an elf, playing since the closed beta, i am currently half of the 4th age of research, have unlocked each units, rank ~260/270, so i can say i have seen almost what the game can offer.

My opinion is : an elf army has no way to counter ranged units.

The obstacles and the bodyblocking of enemy melee units make almost impossible for a sword dancer and a treant to reach a ranged unit, so an elven army has to play with ranged units to counter ranged units, and each research i made (golems then sorceress) were a total disapointment.

1: Archers.
Archers are still the best unit to counter enemy archers: the best range and almost the best movement area, an army made with 3 stacks of sword dancers and 2 stacks of archers is still the best standard army. But at the moment the enemy has a treant, this army is no longer viable, the sword dancers dies way too fast. The only solution you can have is to remove your sword dancers and play with treants, but in this case, enemy units focus the archers, they die before you can leave an arrow on their team.
The last point is that an archer is countered by a heavy ranged unit.

2: Golems.
Golems are way too weak when we unlock them. The only way they deal significant damage is against heavy melee, and even in this case, they deal the same than a treant and not daze the target. For a 2 point ranged unit, i expected much better : way lower range than a mortar, and not really tankier. the last bad point is that they get focused and one-shot by light melee.
It needs more range or tankiness to be helpful against range unit, at least to reach them.

3: Sorceress
As i saw the description, i thought : maybe i cannot kill ranged units, but i can significantly decreased their damage (-60%), and it is a very interesting way to counter ranged units, much interesting than having a global ranged unit to kill them. I focus their front line then the survivors kill the ranged units backline. But the Broken Valor is currently bugged : is weakens the damage YOU deal to the unit instead of the damage dealt BY the unit. If you add the fact that a sorceress deals very low, this unit is also useless in your army.

An elf has no viable strategy to face an army with some mortars or archers. This must be fixed.
 

DeletedUser1095

Guest
Thanks for the insights. I sure hope the developers take this on board and improve the elven units.
I'm also sorry the elves don't have some sort of hellcat or serpent or something like that -
a fast unit that would be a close equivalent to the dogs that the humans and opponents get.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
The strategy I am using at the moment is using Sword Dancer II as a bait while having 2-3 Golems + 2-1 archers depending on other units in the enemy to tackle Mortars ... I have been quite successful with that strategy till now with the enemies I face ... but again I m not really sure how far you are advanced on the map ...I have been facing squads of 300 - 400 now ...and my own squad is only 120 at the moment ....The only downside of this strategy is I keep losing my Sword Dancer in almost every fight.... I found Golems (3pts range and not 2pts as mentioned) are really good / useful when using against Mortars in the enemy units but not much with any other unit ....not even Knights or Treants (I & II) ... Maybe Golems II would be better ....But yes Elves miss a Long range unit and would have been good if it can included ... I also think if they can fix and rectify that Sorceress abilities that would be more than enough for elves though the dev's don't seem to be much interested in fixing such a big blunder of a bug and are rather happy concentrating on other smaller bugs at the moment ...:p
 

DeletedUser118

Guest
I would love to see Golems working with the same range Mortars do, throwing rocks at the enemy. I mean the NPC have longe range units, humans do, but elfs do not at all.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I would not agree, that there is no way to counter ranged units. Especially since I researched Golems II I'm not afraid of those. I like Golems II very much, so I hardly use Archers anymore. And when engaging enough sworddancers to soak up cannoneer (ex mortar) damage, you don't have to get through to those with your sworddancers, just leave the job to golems. There is indeed the point, that enemy units focus on golems prior to treants despite their lower initiative, but you cannot expect, that the AI is weak in every situation.
 

DeletedUser1178

Guest
I am encountering similar difficulties. I'm 8 Hexes out on the world map, and have Squad size of 96. I find that troops get totally wiped out in one or two hits, and by the time you figure replacement cost, its easier and cheaper just to negotiate.
 

DeletedUser283

Guest
my squad size is 108, golem squad with size 18 can 1-shot a mortar squad;
I too use the sword dancer squad as a tank while treants and golems are reaching out to the mortars
 

DeletedUser872

Guest
I am a human and I recognise the problem with the range units. Humans have the cerberus that can reach the opponents units in round 1 with a little luck with the mapobstacles.
The gollems are imo too weak as I stated in another topic caused by their weight and wide range of possible hitpoints. (weight=6 and hitpoints 17-51)

To help the discussion being more about figures than about feelings or believes of weak or strong troops I made a schedule with troops of both elves a humans so we can compare more easily their stats. The damage is their basic damage without any bonus.
I based it on squads of 120 but it is in fact the same for smaller squads.
I also scheduled 2 complete armies both for humans and elves to illustrate their healthpoints and hitpoints (damage)


0DJ4EA6.png


As you can see a treant looks very strong but dued to it's weight there are only 10 treants in a squad and before they can do their high damage it will take some time.
Elves are believed to have more healthpoints but as soon as humans use a paladin that is no longer true.
The gollems are unreliable, when they choose only the 340 damage you can pack your bags, I think it would be a better unit with a litlle less weight and a higher minimumdamage.

Elves should also take notice of the fact that 20 cannoneer or 40 steinlings are able to kill 1 squad of 30 sorceress. I don't know if elves face those amounts of enemies, but just be aware of that.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser

Guest
I am a human and I recognise the problem with the range units. Humans have the cerberus that can reach the opponents units in round 1 with a little luck with the mapobstacles.
The gollems are imo too weak as I stated in another topic caused by their weight and wide range of possible hitpoints. (weight=6 and hitpoints 17-51)

To help the discussion being more about figures than about feelings or believes of weak or strong troops I made a schedule with troops of both elves a humans so we can compare more easily their stats. The damage is their basic damage without any bonus.
I based it on squads of 120 but it is in fact the same for smaller squads.
I also scheduled 2 complete armies both for humans and elves to illustrate their healthpoints and hitpoints (damage)


0DJ4EA6.png


As you can see a treant looks very strong but dued to it's weight there are only 10 treants in a squad and before they can do their high damage it will take some time.
Elves are believed to have more healthpoints but as soon as humans use a paladin that is no longer true.
The gollems are unreliable, when they choose only the 340 damage you can pack your bags, I think it would be a better unit with a litlle less weight and a higher minimumdamage.

SO going by this illustrations it looks like Elves have got only the Sword dancers and Archers to fight effectively almost all the fights ...and with the new update using sword dancer is also not very effective as they have a attack range of 1 and most of the time get hit back from the Enemy units when they attack ... Also since they have the highest initiative the opponents try to first attack them ... I feel Elves really need a long range unit or atleast increasing the hit range of Golems by one - making it to 4 instead of the current 3 ...
 

DeletedUser

Guest
...excellent work mclain ;)
I agree with the conclusion of ddevil: we need just having a new long range unit or increasing hit range of Golems, otherwise it's not sufficient fighting with success with our actual armies
 

DeletedUser872

Guest
I also agree with ddevil that elves need a unit with a longer range. But I would suggest to increase the movement range instead of the attack range, otherwise it would be too easy to stay out of reach of the thieves with a movement/attackrange of 3/1.
Another thing is that it realy would be a good help if the sorceress curse got debugged.
 
Top