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How difficult is it to full-clear the spire at the end of the tech tree?

edeba

Well-Known Member
Amount of troops you can train and your tourney squad size matters when you have enough of expiring buildings to fight x2 bigger enemy squads. And it can make a very significant difference. My wife in the middle of ch17 on live have almost x2 bigger squads in tourney than me here in ch15, while having the same AW military boosts and almost the same speed of training (well, a bit faster, since she has Victory Springs and higher level of Training Grounds, but those additional dryads don't make a big difference in tourney). She has more expansions and AW levels too of course, but anyway it's a huge difference in costs with almost the same production.
Exactly, massively regressive... So she can max where, at about 2/3rds of what you can do?
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Exactly, massively regressive... So she can max where, at about 2/3rds of what you can do?
should be closer, after province 30 the losses ramp up pretty massively. sometimes up to a 1000 troops for like 5 provinces around province 40.
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
tbh, I still don't know my sustainable score, every tourney I'm capped by amount of opened provinces and finish every weekend with more units/boosters/supply instants/pet foods than I had a week ago.
+ there is much bigger difference in losses if you have time for manual fighting or not. Autofight can loose 30 squads where manual provides flawless victory or loose like 3-5 squads.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
tbh, I still don't know my sustainable score, every tourney I'm capped by amount of opened provinces and finish every weekend with more units/boosters/supply instants/pet foods than I had a week ago.
+ there is much bigger difference in losses if you have time for manual fighting or not. Autofight can loose 30 squads where manual provides flawless victory or loose like 3-5 squads.

I really can't handle manual combat like that every week.
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
Same here, but if I have time for that, I can loose less troops doing 40-50 on manual than doing 30-40 of the same tourney on auto.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
I really can't handle manual combat like that every week.
Same here, but if I have time for that, I can loose less troops doing 40-50 on manual than doing 30-40 of the same tourney on auto.
What about hybrid combat?
Have you two tried just doing 1 turn of combat and then clicking "finish fight"?
I find that the AI makes most of the mistakes on the very first turn so the results should be significantly improved. In theory.
 

Deleted User - 81190

Guest
What about hybrid combat?
Have you two tried just doing 1 turn of combat and then clicking "finish fight"?
I find that the AI makes most of the mistakes on the very first turn so the results should be significantly improved. In theory.
This is still much slower than the auto combat.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
What about hybrid combat?
Have you two tried just doing 1 turn of combat and then clicking "finish fight"?
I find that the AI makes most of the mistakes on the very first turn so the results should be significantly improved. In theory.

What I can handle sometimes is the last 10 provinces, but since my main server ain't the most competitive on the planet I am less challenged to do so and it becomes harder and harder to find the energy to do so.
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
That's still manual combat (I press "finish fight" when there are no possible bad choices for AI, but not earlier). My "hybrid" is doing manual only on last provinces (like 40+), and I often don't find the time even for that.
 

Aeva

Well-Known Member
I think the spire is easier in a later chapter because in the lower ones in some cases there is no choice in how to finish. You either have the goods to play mastermind or you don't and/or your troops are strong enough to win or they aren't. But in my biggest city I have the goods and the troops. Because I have the choice I can make the leanest one or the one I like best. By the way: I clear the spire in chapter 7, 8 and 15.
 

ekarat

Well-Known Member
If you negotiate it does become more difficult as you require more goods to negotiate the same.
"improving" goods production is a lot more difficult, and there is no natural overproduction of it, unlike the units.

What do you mean by natural overproduction of units? What are you referring to?
 

ekarat

Well-Known Member
What about hybrid combat?
Have you two tried just doing 1 turn of combat and then clicking "finish fight"?
I find that the AI makes most of the mistakes on the very first turn so the results should be significantly improved. In theory.

This. I do this. I agree that the AI makes most of the mistakes on the very first turn. I have noticed the same thing, and I think this is exactly right.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
What do you mean by natural overproduction of units? What are you referring to?

Most players do no squeeze the maximum out of there tournaments like some of us. (assuming you are not in the early game stages)

With lets say that with an average of 10-15 provinces a week the amount of units you can produce in your barracks, training grounds and mercenary camp oustrips the use of units by a absolutely ridicule massive amount.

Goods on the other hand when you play the negotiation game, most people really struggle with some goods, especially seeds, orcs and mana a small increase had a direct effect on them, while a small increase in units has no effect on them at all.
 

ekarat

Well-Known Member
Goods on the other hand when you play the negotiation game, most people really struggle with some goods, especially seeds, orcs and mana a small increase had a direct effect on them, while a small increase in units has no effect on them at all.

Ah. I usually fight, so I forgot to take seeds, orcs, and mana into account, and you're right about those not scaling as well and/or not accumulating.

I am in the position where I have an overproduction of barracks troops but a shortage of mercenary troops. I also only did 15 provinces this week. I am trying to adjust my patterns so that I can do more.
 

Richord

Well-Known Member
How difficult is it to full-clear the spire at the end of the tech tree?
well, 1 chapter before:
VERY difficult.
why?
easy:
You'll need way more than just a fire phoenix if you fight and perhaps need to do it manually. sometimes starting before high halls. I HATE that lvl of difficulty.
If you cater, you depend on dumb luck. That's just stupid. I like braingames, but when it turns out to need luck, it just isn't doable anymore.

Ergo; too much time/effort, so 'very difficult' is your answer.
 

PaNonymeB

Well-Known Member
In fact, what breaks the balance is the temporary military buildings. These pictures speak for themselves :
Screenshot_20210212-205206_Elvenar.jpg
Screenshot_20210212-205250_Elvenar.jpg

This was on my live chapter 17 city, spire level 3 encounter 1. All bonuses combined, I have +122.5% health and +174% LR damage. Wave 1 was mages/HM, hence the archers. I can reach such bonuses thanks to military wonders a level 10 fire phoenix, but more importantly with 2 DA + 2 ELR. This is sustainable thanks to level 26 timewarp + level 1 polar bear that give me 82% tournament time reduction (3h/round), enough to make my 5-day boosts work for 2 tournaments and spires (with time instants for Spire, placing my boosts on Friday evening). I would never have been able to fight this in my second city, where I have a level 7 fire phoenix, am running out of UUU/DA and can't have them working for 2 weeks.

These crazy military boosts broke the game balance, but now it's too late to remove them.
 

Arthus

Well-Known Member
Very not difficult.
With spire sets in the city, chapter 17 wonder and relics you produce tons of catalysts to craft in academy like crazy.
Buildings for your army (% attack and HP) are coming and coming.
With polar bear level 10 and Timewarp lvl 30 you get instant tournament time (no waiting).


With proper time of placement your army boosts, you can do 2 tournaments and 2 spires in one cycle of army strenghtening and have almost no loses in your army while doing spire. But you need time boosters for spire to wait near the end of the 1st spire and 1st tournament, then place buildings for 5 days. Then do tournament without cooldown and Spire on time boosters.
 
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Karvest

Well-Known Member
Or do like me - interleave fighting week with convincing one and save time instants for army production.
 
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