Fairy Wonder Blooming Trader

[DeletedUser651]

I am confused as to how this will be a huge help to the very advanced players that will be the only ones to place this building.

25% wholesaler offer improvement

Why would this be of much use to a very advanced player? By the time you get here, you should have cleared hundreds of provinces and you should have a very advanced fellowship. I suppose I do buy a few things from the wholesaler, but not very often. It is more of a throw away kind of thing. Mostly I trade big offers with others.

40% reduced trade fee

See above. I don't remember the last time I had to pay a trade fee. That happened a ton early on, but now that I am very advanced, this is rare. I have many people with which to trade without a fee. I would imagine others are in a similar situation to me.

5% Portal production boost

The portal production for all races gets boosted. Ok...yeah....that is nice. But it doesn't work on the dwarven portal because you have sold it by the time you get to this tech. It doesn't work on the fairy portal at least until you are through the entire tech tree, so there isn't much use there. Are they planning on giving us many new races? And starting at only 5%?

What am I missing? I can't see this being of much use and certainly not worth the space. Or am I looking at it all wrong?

 

[DeletedUser283]

if it does not fit your gameplay, do not build it, end of story

 

[DeletedUser118]

Well yes but if you always go like that how should this game improve? Innogames wants feedback and that is what they recieve. In this case even with alot of reasons why this building is pretty much useless the way it is.

 

[DeletedUser283]

there is a big lack of info in this game : level bonuses for AWs are not detailed in the wiki;
on FoE, a special topic on the forum takes care of it, so that players know what they can expect;
in Elvenar, it is smoke and mirrors;
it boils down to this : people frown when reading level 1 bonuses for an AW, because these bonuses are actually small; then when people reach the interesting bonuses level, they frown because it took years and was KP intensive;
I think that this game is :
-poorly coded
-poorly marketed
-poorly documented

and it looks like a poor attempt at recreating the success of FoE on a cheap base with beautiful graphics on top

here, you have feedback.

 

[DeletedUser]

This Aw seems to be directed at players that play solo or in very small fs. Its the only explanation for it's design as it will be obsolete to everyone else by the time we can actually build it. Even for solo players they would have benefited from this if they could get it much sooner, at this point, even them have enough ppl discovered on the map to be able to trade with ease ( unless they are in one of the multiple dead hoods, but that's another story).
It doesn't really bother me, as it seems the rule of thumb to be release a good Aw and a not good Aw per tier. I don't think you ultimately are supposed to build both, you are supposed to choose which one to build. This kind of design only makes it obvious which one you should not build in the first place.

 

[DeletedUser651]

The only feature I can see being of any use would be the portal boost but generally, the fairy wonders are only for the paying players.

For the non payers, it will take an obscenely and uselessly long time to build these things. For the non payers, they essentially haven't been given this wonder at all. That is, unless the mechanisms change. If they really examine the requirements in time, they might make it easier to get fairy runes.

Taking me as an example, in order to build this fairy wonder, I will need to negotiate provinces for years. I am now at 2 1/2 days per scout and by the time I get to this wonder I will be at 3 days and longer. I now have a one in 6 chance of getting the right rune from a sector. Plus, we all know how many runes break. So.....if the fairies are like the dwarves and require 10 runes to build this at level one, that means I need 30 or more Blooming Trader runes to get the 10 I need. (That is how it was for the dwarves). Now, doing more math, that means I need 30 runes in a 1/6 chance.....so roughly 180 provinces to clear before I get the wonder built. Multiply that times a conservative 4 days a piece (because the costs continue to rise) , that is 720 days before I get the runes I need.

Then, if like the dwarves, I need another 10 runes to get past level 5, you can add in a few more years. Oh, maybe cut that down a smidge if I can donate and snipe enough kp to get runes from others, and it might only take me 4 years to build this to a level 10.

By then, I am guessing I might not get much use out of this portal boost.

If you buy the wonder, that portal boost could be of use to a top player. I'd love to hear more people discuss it.

 

[Lissona]

25% wholesaler offer improvement
Why would this be of much use to a very advanced player? By the time you get here, you should have cleared hundreds of provinces and you should have a very advanced fellowship. I suppose I do buy a few things from the wholesaler, but not very often. It is more of a throw away kind of thing. Mostly I trade big offers with others.

If someone should have cleared hundreds of provinces by that time, I do not understand why the "required provinces you need to clear" should be removed. Btw.: if people did not manage to get that far - than the scouting times aren't at 2,5/3 days, so they don't need years to get the runes for the wonder.

Why are advanced players supposed to have an advanced fellowship by the time you get there? Do you know how many players are in a large/mid-sized/small fellowship – or without one, cause they like to play for themselves? There are a lot of different playstyles...

Btw.: I'm in a fellowship - and when I reach the end of the TechTree and I can't build anymore (like at the end of the dwarves), I will spend a lot of supplies and coins at the wholesaler (what else should I do with them except scouting for coins which does not cost as much as I can generate?)

40% reduced trade fee

See above. I don't remember the last time I had to pay a trade fee. That happened a ton early on, but now that I am very advanced, this is rare. I have many people with which to trade without a fee. I would imagine others are in a similar situation to me.

"Fix the issue with neighbors. We need people who play the game around us." So if someone has no (adequate) neighbours and only a small/no fellowship – he really apreciates the reduced trading fee (and the people, he will buy the goods from will apreciate it, too).
And even in our fellowhip there is sometimes a lack of a specific good - if the trading fee isn't at 50% anymore, I would buy things from neighbours I yet have not discovered.

5% Portal production boost

... Are they planning on giving us many new races? And starting at only 5%?

If they plan to give us new races (and that's how I would interpretate this bonus), that's really a good bonus. And starting at 5% is enough in my opinion.

Btw.: you should have in mind that active beta players (on the forums) are not the only/main target audience for new content - especially new players, who start to play the game now or even in one year (and perhaps at a completely different pace) will get in touch with it and are in a completely different situation than we are (they don't reach the end(s) of the tech tree like we did and had no time waiting for new content/endlessly scouting/building the cities to the max etc.)

 

[Muf-Muf]

level bonuses for AWs are not detailed in the wiki

Hmm, they are, though? On this page, to be more precise. For each Ancient Wonder, there is an "Overview" section that you can expand. When you do, a big table appears with all the costs and bonuses per level. For example:

https://en.wiki.elvenar.com/index.php?title=Ancient_Wonders_Overview#Martial_Monastery_Overview

If you click "Expand", you will see the following (also the other levels, of course):

Is this not what you mean?

------------

Then more ontopic again: thanks for the feedback on the new Ancient Wonders so far. Keep it coming, please - we always want to know what you think about new content.

 

[DeletedUser607]

I have a question regarding those wonders, more precisely regarding the way to gather the runes for those.

currently, I have 273 provinces coquered or negotiated, and I'll get a few more till reaching that research (but I could halt my efforts). and I'm getting quite a nice amount of utterly useless runes (I just need dwarven bulwark-runes, not the other ones, as I already have those buildings beyond lvl 5).

So, taking the situation in account that I've seen during gathering the runes for the other wonders, I think, I'd need at least 20 runes of each new wonder just to get it started. that means at least 60 provinces. and that's going to be expensive (and another 60 for the second round).

are there any suggestions how to avoid that situation? I know, not everyone has gathered that many provinces.

 

[DeletedUser283]

thanks, @Muf-Muf !
last time I clicked on "expand", nothing happened (that must have been some time ago ...)

now on a more serious note :
having a portal booster bonus in an AW that is unlocked by the last research in the chapter looks a bit illogical to me ...
until we get another guest race, of course; now it seems that we made it through one of them, and I hope to survive the current one
so there we have an AW the third bonus of which will only be useful when we get a newer guest race...

in the mean time I will concentrate on the other bonuses
-lowering the trader fee :
atm I do not negotiate more than 1 encounter in a province, and it is generally a matter of comfort; maybe I could win the encounter, but the lost troops would take ages to be recruited anew, so I just skip the fight (did I already mention that barracks are waaaay too slow ?);
I have enough resources in my Hall to accept to trade with the trader fee when I need the resource (in general because I like my stocks well balanced ), hence lowering the trader fee is not a priority for me;

-improved wholesalers offer :
this bonus is more interesting from my pov, because of those long stretches of waiting time between new research chapters;
these are time when my expanses are low : everything is built and upgraded, my only costs in supplies are troops and manufactories, my only costs in gold are scouts and manufactories;
... and I end up maxing out my main hall every other day, so I go to the wholesaler to purge the excess (and balance my stocks)
I have to spend to be able to collect anyhow, so why not get a better offer ?

all in all, this AW is indeed not very interesting, I have survived without it, I could probably go on without it ...
we will see
in the mean time, I will limit my provinces to 7/8 to avoid getting an unusable faeries AW rune shard before the research is unlocked

 

[Jixel]

there is a big lack of info in this game : level bonuses for AWs are not detailed in the wiki;

Hmm, they are, though? On this page, to be more precise. For each Ancient Wonder, there is an "Overview" section that you can expand. When you do, a big table appears with all the costs and bonuses per level. For example:

https://en.wiki.elvenar.com/index.php?title=Ancient_Wonders_Overview#Martial_Monastery_Overview

... but not for the Fairy AWs, which is what we're keenly interested in at the moment

 

[Muf-Muf]

but not for the Fairy AWs

That is true - we're working on implementing that information into the wiki at the moment. It'll be uploaded as soon as it's done.

 

[DeletedUser]

the fairy wonders are only for the paying players.

Fairy and all following AWs will be only for paying users. Math here is simple

That is, unless the mechanisms change.

And changes to this system I saw many times on different forums. But most of them are good enough to close doors to easy moneys for owners.

I am now at 2 1/2 days per scout and by the time I get to this wonder I will be at 3 days and longer

And remember that with every province this time will be increasing. It will not stop on 3 days...

if the fairies are like the dwarves and require 10 runes

Runeswhell is having 9 runes to fill.

Why are advanced players supposed to have an advanced fellowship by the time you get there?

Because their progress will be enhancing also whole fs knowledge and prosperity. They are mostly also sticking to other advanced players. 2-3 of them in fs and all other players are having really huge benefints: knowledge, resources, KPs.

So if someone has no (adequate) neighbours and only a small/no fellowship – he really apreciates the reduced trading fee

Appreciate only at start, but it is really hard to "live" on edges. You have to be in good prospering fs or buy tons of diamonds. If not, you simply stuck.

If they plan to give us new races (and that's how I would interpretate this bonus), that's really a good bonus

They were telling about 5 guest races. For me this AW in second one at end of tech tree is somehow funny. But it is bitter laugh.

are in a completely different situation than we are (they don't reach the end(s) of the tech tree like we did and had no time waiting

Yes, they are. And don't look ahead, in future. Now they are happy, but after one year they will be in same situation as we are now. Also no content, waiting for new races. Probably with inactive neighbors problem still existing. I still don't get it why owners don't want to move players near center of map, even when they demand this for over than year

 

[CrazyWizard]

You guys forget you can get quite a lot of runes quite fast by investing points in other people's wonders.
Not those from the t10 players but from page 4 and onwards.

Give it a few weeks so quite a few of these wonders exist and you can easily get 1-2 runes a day from the wonder you want.
My main issue is that there utterly rediculous worthless. there even worse than the Bulwark, and that says enough.

I'll guess that once they implement points gain for wonders, there good point gatherers and thats about it.

 

[DeletedUser651]

You guys forget you can get quite a lot of runes quite fast by investing points in other people's wonders.

That is true, but only if there is a long wait between the fairies and the next chapter. On one of the last tv episodes, they said that wouldn't happen again. (because a ton of players quit when that happens too). But certainly, that would be a way to get some of the runes needed.

The problem with that being a part of the regular game, for the players that don't have that wait of months and months, these wonders won't be of any use for them. They will just be done with the fairies and move on to the next race and need all their kp to do that. Plus, everyone else will be on to the next race and their wonders will just be sitting there not upgrading, so they won't have tons of fairy runes to try and grab.

But as you say, it doesn't really matter how hard/impossible it will be to get one of these, it matters if anyone wants it.

Does anyone?

 

[DeletedUser]

you can get quite a lot of runes quite fast by investing points in other people's wonders.

You can, but if you will be doing this and there will be others in same situation as you. If you are alone KP spender it takes you many days to fulfill someone AW bar. If AW is lvl 5+ it takes weeks.
@Bobbykitty I may add to your post one more thing. If devs will be doing new races same way as they do Faeries, people will be leaving game even if there will be no gaps. Why? Because people don't like be treated like suckers. For many of them releasing unfinished technologies you can do, but have no profit from it, is unthinkable. If devs will speed up new races, such technologies will be much more and they may be unbalanced, so corrected with time. Players see that "compensation" is phrase not known in Inno. Combine those mentioned things

 

[DeletedUser]

If someone should have cleared hundreds of provinces by that time, I do not understand why the "required provinces you need to clear" should be removed. Btw.: if people did not manage to get that far - than the scouting times aren't at 2,5/3 days, so they don't need years to get the runes for the wonder.

Why are advanced players supposed to have an advanced fellowship by the time you get there? Do you know how many players are in a large/mid-sized/small fellowship – or without one, cause they like to play for themselves? There are a lot of different playstyles...

Btw.: I'm in a fellowship - and when I reach the end of the TechTree and I can't build anymore (like at the end of the dwarves), I will spend a lot of supplies and coins at the wholesaler (what else should I do with them except scouting for coins which does not cost as much as I can generate?)

Hi, Lissona. I'm guessing from this post that you're somewhere in the Dwarven tech, or before. A number of us who have been objecting to the "required provinces" modification are further along - and we're objecting on behalf of early and mid-stage players. We think it's more fair for players to have choices.

"Fix the issue with neighbors. We need people who play the game around us." So if someone has no (adequate) neighbours and only a small/no fellowship – he really apreciates the reduced trading fee (and the people, he will buy the goods from will apreciate it, too).
And even in our fellowship there is sometimes a lack of a specific good - if the trading fee isn't at 50% anymore, I would buy things from neighbours I yet have not discovered.

By the time a player gets to Fairy Tech, it's highly unlikely that there's a significant need for trading with undiscovered neighbors. Sometimes, perhaps, but not often enough to justify the permanent installation of a Wonder.

If they plan to give us new races (and that's how I would interpretate this bonus), that's really a good bonus. And starting at 5% is enough in my opinion.

Btw.: you should have in mind that active beta players (on the forums) are not the only/main target audience for new content - especially new players, who start to play the game now or even in one year (and perhaps at a completely different pace) will get in touch with it and are in a completely different situation than we are (they don't reach the end(s) of the tech tree like we did and had no time waiting for new content/endlessly scouting/building the cities to the max etc.)

These are interesting points to put together. Subsequent players - including you, since you didn't have to wait on Dwarven and Fairy tech - will find the Wonders even less helpful than the older players. We benefitted from the long gap with nothing else to do with KP other than build up Wonders. When you and others finish Dwarven you can proceed directly into Fairy...without time for leveling the Wonders up to a level where they even approach being of value. The introduction of Wonders into the early Research is likely to discourage players, not encourage. A low level Wonder just occupies grid space while slowing progress through the Research itself.

One of the cardinal points thus far in Elvenar is that progress comes from goods and provinces. Thus, the more KP is diluted into a Wonder, the less KP goes to research...the fewer building upgrades one makes, the slower the game progresses. When we're objecting over and over to Wonders, it's not just from our own perspective - it's for the benefit of any future players.

I'd summarize the Wonders as: the right idea introduced at the wrong times in the game, usually with the wrong benefits. If they were mandatory 2x2 buildings (with leveling optional), introduced in the proper order where the benefits were real and increasingly significant (i.e. Mountain Hall should be the first Wonder and introduced early on)...there would be little conflict over them.

*******

A Wonder to make the Trader Wonderful - for advanced players (anyone at Fairy or beyone) would possibly include:

A upgraded ability to direct our trades to fellowship and/or non-fellowship members. We manage our play, and we need to do so more effectively. I'd like to place small offers available only to my neighbors - so they have goods readily available at levels they can accept. I'd also like to keep balancing trades posted for fellowship members only - in amounts appropriate to fulfilling quest bonuses, for example.

Ability to trade twice daily with undiscovered players. To help balance goods between fellowships.

Trader can be disconnected...has an upgraded appearance...diminished size...REMOVE that irritating confirmation popup between every placed trade....

 

[CrazyWizard]

I agree with bobbipiazza,

I have never understood those lock chests, you should never alienate your players in this case it are the low/mid level players I myself have a 230+ provinces unlocked on my main server so I dont even care.
But telling players to play THIS way only and NOT YOUR WAY, is the dumbest thing to do in the world.
unless your way is hurting the game, you shouls always let players play there way.

Wonders are supposed to be end game buildings and therefore should have endgame powers so there interesting to end game players.
I really have no clue how the new ones could be interesting to "end game" players.

In fact, the fact there contemplating to give wonders "points" shows there already recognised as not being end game buildings because end gamers dont seem to like them enough.

 

[DeletedUser]

@CrazyWizard There is possibility, that those chests are to force players to do few things:
- not wait with finishing provinces to elvish AW and thus gaining extra few runes for that. Players could stop with many provinces at 7/8 and wait for discovering elvish AW. Later in game same thing could be done with other races AW techs.
- force players (hitting chest) to invest KP, gained from conquering required provinces, into other players AW to not lose hourly KP gain.

 

[DeletedUser]

@CrazyWizard There is possibility, that those chests are to force players to do few things:
- not wait with finishing provinces to elvish AW and thus gaining extra few runes for that. Players could stop with many provinces at 7/8 and wait for discovering elvish AW. Later in game same thing could be done with other races AW techs.
- force players (hitting chest) to invest KP, gained from conquering required provinces, into other players AW to not lose hourly KP gain.

I hadn't thought of those possible causes - and now that you mention them, it's even more distressing.

Is Inno really this opposed to players using their brains to attempt various strategies? Holding provinces at 7/8 is an excellent rune strategy ,but it's no freebie -it's a choice on the part of a player to exchange one benefit for another. (Incomplete provinces equates to fewer expansions).

If they keep this "lock step" mentality in place, pretty soon we'll all be better off playing Hay Day. I know, city-builders are likely to look down on that app, but it's comparable to Elvenar in ways. Their building process is lock step...but at least they allow feeder accounts, unlimited trading capabilities, storage capabilities, and - most significantly - the premium purchases ONLY affect tempo and optional graphics. Everyone's town and farm look unique, their competitions are fun, and the neighborhoods social. I was attracted to Elvenar because of the options for strategy...but now it's degenerated to "buy a few Snail Palaces and you win".

According to Inno's own website, they recognize that they've attracted a different demographic to Elvenar - but the Forums should be giving them a clue: Elvenar isn't FoE. And while limitations, regulations, and restrictions may be required in a game where players like to devastate each other...Elvenar is all about possibility, which needs nurture and freedom and wonder.