Discussion Changes in declining quests

[DeletedUser1095]

Roll back lasted only one hour...

I'm shocked. Why in the world are you imposing this on us beta players, whom you should appreciate and reward for our feedback and not afflict us with something you already KNOW is 100% counterproductive? And as Katzenprinz says: What kind of feedback do you expect now? How many times do we have to say that this "one-decline-per-day" limit ruins the game?? Why do you expect us to stay around beta-testing for you when you leave us with this crippling limitation for no reason???

 

[DeletedUser283]

you guys please make up your minds !

i was very satisfied to see that I could decline quests again; I know have 2 quests that I am in the process of completing ("fight and win 3 encounters" and "complete a province", as these perfectly suit my gameplay - and whatever the rewards may be, as I found out that I was perfectly able to sustain my city and its production, while the blockade was active, even though I was not getting any quest reward in the meantime)

I am very satisfied as well that you decided not to roll this change out to the live servers ! smart decision indeed

now why in the world has the limitation been enabled again?
we have been screaming at the top of our lungs that it was a bad feature, and either it will prevent players form going forward or it will force them to rearrange their city deeply - and some already started, from what I heard;
ok, this is a city builder game, and we are suppose to rearrange our cities form time to time to cope with its evolution, building sizes changing and production we need, but having to modify one's city just because of this limitation proves how absurd this situation is.

 

[DeletedUser1250]

Why I decline quests on the Dutch server

I have already posted, but decided to post more about all the quests, why I like or don't like them or why I don't do them.
I have already said that being able to decline just 1 quest each day is a bad idea. On the beta server, I was stuck for a few days with the quests, not being able to do them due to a lack of space and having reached the end of the tech tree and not being able to upgrade manufactories anymore. I also didn't get enough supplies with the 8 workshops to keep up with the training of the troops and making goods, so I didn't like that at all, I even stopped producing and training for a while to get more supplies. I also used the 5 minutes for the supplies, but that takes too much time. I don't want to sit and click all day, 1 h or 3 h for the workshop should be good enough.
We have been told that changes will come, so I thought about the dutch server, where I can still build, get expansions and such. And decided to explain why I decline quests there.

These are quests I like and never decline:
- Supplies Supply Security - Gain 5000 Supplies
- Our Taxes - Gain 150000 Coins
- Sufficient Goods - Gain 3000 goods
- Borondal for the People - Produce Bread 8 times (1 Hr)
*Basic Goods - Gain 2000 Marble/steel/planks
*Crafted Goods - Gain 2000 Silk/scrolls/crystal
*Magical Goods - Gain 2000 Gems/elixer/magic dust
These are quests that give a good reward when you keep repeating them and I can see that it was not meant to be that way. If it would be limited to a daily quest, it would be good for me. As soon as you have finished it, it won't come back that day.

I sometimes do the following quests:
- More Tools - Produce 5 Advanced Tools (3 Hr) I do the 1h, but when I need to go away for a few hours, this quest is fine
- Noble Residences - Upgrade 1 Residence L6+
- Striving for Improvement - Upgrade 2 Buildings L6+
- Good Supplies - Upgrade 1 Manufactory L6+
- Improved Production - Upgrade 1 Boosted Manufactory L6+
- Perfect Logistics - Upgrade 1 Workshop L6+ -
- Increasing Population - Gain 100 Population
- Assisting the Ancestors - Build 1 Altar of the Forefathers
- More Culture - Gain 100 Culture
- research a technology
Explanation: I like to choose what I do, I don't want to be forced to do something because a quest asks me for it. I choose to do these quests when I am ready to do them, not doing something because a quest asks me for it.
Right now, I am upgrading the magic dust factories on the dutch server. I upgrade them between 3 and 6 pm, so they will be ready when I wake up. Then I upgrade some residences, because I really need more population. So I don't want to upgrade a workshop right now, but I did a few days ago. Didn't want to upgrade a manufactory then, I was saving the population for the magic dust manufactories. So I declined the quests and as soon as my workshop or whatever was almost done, I choose the quest that gave me the reward for finishing that building. Getting a quest that would ask for something I had not planned to do, would not be funny.
The Increasing population quest can be easily done by placing 4 new recidences and then removing them after getting the quest reward. If you have the space and free builders of course. I do like this one, but it should be limited, it shouldn't be repeatable. When you're upgrading residences, the quest can be done within a day. So if it would be a daily quest, then it would be good enough for me.
This also means those quests should all be declinable, so I won't be stuck for a day with a quest. It also would be good if the quest would come back till you have finished it that day.
More culture can be easily done if you have the space and free builders by building luminous signposts or purple blossom trees and remove them. That's not the way I use this. I like this quest when I am placing new roads for example or when I am building a temple or garden or whatever kind of culture. The reward doesn't matter to me. I choose this quest when I want to place roads or when my culture building is almost done, else I decline it.
Research a technology: I like this one when I am ready to research, else I really don't want this quest.

I often decline
More Relics - Gain 4 Relics
On to Distant Lands - Complete a Province
Knowledge from all over the World - Solve 4 encounters
I like these and I don't care about the reward. It isn't a matter of a reward that is not big enough. I want to do these quests when I fight or negotiate. I don't want to complete a provence because a quest tells me to do that. I want to gain relics or complete a provence, because I want the knowledge points for the tech tree. Or because I am in the mood to fight or spend goods. Or because I want an expansion suddenly badly. Sometimes I won't do these quests for days, sometimes 3 or 4 in 1 day.
As I said, I don't care about the reward. A daily quest would be fine. This quest should always be declinable and come back during the day till you have done it.

I always decline:
- Showing Elven Strength - Fight 3 encounters
I don't like this one, because I don't like fighting and lose a lot.
-Advanced Tactics - Train 1000 Units
This takes too long. I would like to get quests like: train 250 sword dacers or 25 treants for a small reward.
-Spiritual Reinforcements - Train 500 Sorceresses
This takes too long. I would like to train 20 for a small reward.
- Admirable Altars Please - Produce 3 Admirable Altars -
- Gorgeous Pennants Please - Produce 3 Gorgeous Penant
- Pompous Wall Decorations Please
Why would I produce daily goods, if 4 times 3h and 1 times 9 h each day gives me so much more?
I still wouldn't like these quests if the reward would be much bigger. It will take too lng for me, I like to do many quests each day.
I would like to do a quest which asks me to produce 4 times the 3h of my bonus goods. 9h would be fine too, I can do that during the night.
-Spend 20 knowledge points
That one is only worth it if you buy the knowledge points. I don't want to wait 20 hours to complete this quest, nor do I want to be forced to fight or negotiate to finish this faster. If it would be 10 points with half the reward, I would be ok with it.

Long explanation, I hope it helps. It might not be complete, I used the quests LordB posted, thanks for that.
Most important points:
- Being able to decline just 1 quest each day is a bad idea
- I would like daily quests that are all declinable and that keep appearing until you have done them. A daily quest means you can only do this once a day and it will come back the next day.
- I want to be free in choosing quests and decline them. Do what I want, not being forced. The questline for the tech tree is fine, I am not talking about that, just talking about the repeatable quests.
- I like quests that can be done in a few hours and I like to do many quests a day
- Rewards don't matter so much to me. Even with a huge reward for the quests I always decline, I still woldn't like them.

 

[DeletedUser283]

thanks for your post, @Anne65 , I will do my own version now

These are quests I do and never decline:
- Supplies Supply Security - Gain 5000 Supplies
- Our Taxes - Gain 150000 Coins
- Sufficient Goods - Gain 3000 goods
- More Tools - Produce 5 Advanced Tools (3 Hr)
-More Relics - Gain 4 Relics
On to Distant Lands - Complete a Province
Knowledge from all over the World - Solve 4 encounters
Showing Elven Strength - Fight 3 encounters
fight ! fight ! fight !
*Basic Goods - Gain 2000 Marble/steel/planks
*Crafted Goods - Gain 2000 Silk/scrolls/crystal
*Magical Goods - Gain 2000 Gems/elixer/magic dust
These quests fit my gameplay, so why not being rewarded for playing the game

I play this game the way I understand it, and the way I intend to;
now if game designers want me to accomplish silly quests, they better offer more incentive rewards


I always decline:
-Advanced Tactics - Train 1000 Units
This takes too long.
-Spiritual Reinforcements - Train 500 Sorceresses
This takes too long.
- luxury armchairs Please - Produce 3 luxury armchairs
Mage journals Please - Produce 3 mage journals
Fireworks Please - produce 3 fireworks
Why would I produce daily goods, if 4 times 3h and 1 times 9 h each day gives me so much more?
- Borondal for the People - Produce Bread 8 times (1 Hr)
9 hours and 3 hours, not 1 hour, I won't;
- Noble Residences - Upgrade 1 Residence L6+
which residence ? level 15 everywhere
- Striving for Improvement - Upgrade 2 Buildings L6+
(see noble residences)
- Good Supplies - Upgrade 1 Manufactory L6+
(see noble residences)
- Improved Production - Upgrade 1 Boosted Manufactory L6+
(see noble residences)
- Perfect Logistics - Upgrade 1 Workshop L6+
(see noble residences)
- Increasing Population - Gain 100 Population
I have the population I need, and I do not need more, thanks but no, thanks
- Assisting the Ancestors - Build 1 Altar of the Forefathers
building an altar of the forefathers to complete the quest and tearing it down once the reward is collected is making me loose coins and supplies; do you think I am braindead ?
- More Culture - Gain 100 Culture
I have the culture surplus I need, thanks but no, thanks

preventing me from declining a quest will not in anyway lead me to try and complete it;
if I tell you that I do not like a quest or that I just cannot complete it for technical reasons, nothing more will happen;
the unwanted quest will stay there as long as I cannot decline it, and once I can it will go away.

 

[Bramblerose]

My feedback to: Elvenar is no longer playable on the beta. I'm going to my town so not umbauen.Wenn it remains to be here certainly underline 70% of the old-timers the sails. Adios Elvenar )

I think here is also no longer get a lot of feedback, because everything has been said.

 

[DeletedUser1232]

It is not acceptable!! I'm again blocked for 2 quest that I CANNOT DO!! And with european time zone blocking lasts until the next day!!
Have I to start over and abandon beta??

 

[DeletedUser1037]

@Muf-Muf

On Beta, however, we don't want to go back to the old system that we had.

And for what reason? It's not comprehensible for me, why beta-testers should have worse circumstances than "normal" players. What sense does beta-testing have in this case?

 

[DeletedUser1358]

I just started an account on the Beta server to see what they will do. 4-5hrs per decline it seems. Btw, it's sending you quests that doesn't make sense at the beginning. Some quests are good for people that play only once per day or takes a few days to accomplish.

Why not make some quests that don't cannot be completed more than every 3 hours? Make the OK button not clickable instead, until the timer is off. Like this, you control the amount of times we can do a quest each day, but at least we can skip the quests that block us.

 

[DeletedUser651]

Muf-Muf honestly, what kind of feedback are you expecting from us now?

I guess you want to know what quests to remove immediately?

From reading lots of different player's tactics, and from my knowledge of the game, I will go over the quests.

Since a lot of us are talking about the last set of quests, I will only discuss that set. I think the earlier quests are fine. It when you have finished the tech tree and your city has been upgraded as far as it can for a while that a bunch of the quests are useless.

1. You can pick and choose which quests to take away permanently and really anger some people who rely on some of them, or you COULD just make some quests permanently declinable as a lot of players have asked. That would solve this readily.

For sure these quests should be gone forever

-Advanced Tactics - Train 1000 Units
This takes too long.

-Spiritual Reinforcements - Train 500 Sorceresses
This takes too long.

Build an Altar of the forefathers
This should never have been a repeating quest. It should be a one and done on the storyline quest. No one likes this.

Once a city is full, no can upgrade anything....all those quests should be permanently declinable. Only the players can know when they have reached this point. As far as the producing 1 day goods....I can see that some people who only sign on once per day might like this...but again, only the player knows their own habits. All those quests should be permanently declinable.

Or...you could write good quests that would be fun to do and would be in keeping with the game:

1. You could get a bonus is you gave neighborly help to your whole fellowship.

2. You could get a bonus if you gave neighborly help to your whole neighborhood.

3. You could get a bonus if you made a favorable trade. (wouldn't it be nice if people learned to be extra nice to each other?)

4. You could get a bonus if you send a message to another player (that would help us all stay connected)

5. You could have a one and done quest that if you post in the forums you get a bonus...(the majority of players don't even know how to get into the forums. That would bring everyone together and give you more feedback)

6. You could get a bonus for filling a tier one good trade in the trader (Not surprisingly, as you get to the end of the tech tree, you buy most of your tier 1 goods and people don't trade marble or steel or planks any more. A quest having you do this might help us all get tier one goods trading again).

7. How about doing things that give us all points towards skins? We could change the colors of our buildings. Get points towards new backgrounds? Some could be pay only, some could be points only, some could be either points or pay.

8. Give the tech tree finished players something to do with their KP....you could use them for the aforementioned skins. Players could race through the tech tree or they could go slowly and use the KP to buy those points for the aesthetic changes. This could slow the game down for some AND give people something to do with the KP. AND it would take advantage of the beautiful part of Elvenar.





I am sure a lot of people on here can give you good ideas.

But, if you are going to break their game while you ask for ideas, why do you think furious people will want to be nice and help you out? You have never given any beta testers any diamonds. We don't get any money to make you guys rich. All we get is a game to play and hopefully try to influence, but if we don't even have that......So I end this post with the same quote of the day:

Muf-Muf honestly, what kind of feedback are you expecting from us now?

 

[DeletedUser590]

@Muf-Muf
You said "On Beta, however, we don't want to go back to the old system that we had"

It sounds as if going back (for a limited amount of time) to the previous system would be losing face for Elvenar. On the contrary, accepting this would be the sign you really want things to calm down, a sign of openmindedness. We all prove with our feedbacks that we understand the concerns of the Dev. Team. So giving testers better conditions would probabiliy be much more efficient, in terms of players motivation, than maintaining such a deteriorated situation between the team and an increasing number of angry players. 10 pages in 3 days, is a strong indicator that things are not going in the right direction.

 

[Brummbaer]

Hi friends, look a this: 190 replies - all negativ and no reaction - silly

 

[DeletedUser651]

I wonder if the people who came up with this "decline-once-a-day" approach have considered this side effect:
I'm stuck waiting to decline the ill-designed "train 500 sorceresses" quest, and while I wait I don't want to upgrade any buildings, because the next quest might be "upgrade that building you just upgraded" and I won't be able to skip it. I don't want to fight or negotiate any provinces, because the next quest might be "fight & win x battles", "gain 4 relics", "complete 4 encounters" or "complete a province", and I won't be able to skip them. I don't want to upgrade my roads or plant any cultural stuff, lest the next quest turn out to be "gain 100 culture", and I won't be able to skip it. I don't want to put in any new housing, because ... well, you get the picture, right?

You do all know that we can't even test your game with this restriction?? Besides running out of supplies (mine are almost gone which will bring my ability to test this game to a stop)....we are all doing what Mink wrote about.....not doing anything as we have to wait and see what the next quest might be. So we aren't testing anything. We are frozen.

Unfreeze us please.

The only thing being tested right now is our patience.

 

[DeletedUser503]

I will give one example of a quest I do not want to do. From the beginning, I have
declined very few, only those that cost me way way more than what I would get back.
Building a city requires a certain approach to economy, after all. The quest I do not
want to do currently is build 1000 troops. I am only making Ents II, Golems II, and
Sorceresses II, as they are the only ones who will allow me to win a province without
sacrificing large numbers of troops. Since I do not fight all that much, I have not
upgraded the barracks very far, so the troops I listed are built 2, or 3, at a time. Can
you imagine how long it will take to build 1000 at that rate? LOL

 

[DeletedUser1345]

I have heard of the ever-elusive sixth tier of researches coming up. You should have introduced them first. Given players who have reached the end of the tree a reason to stay on, before reducing their incentive to stay.
You need to tweak the order of the quests. Building x building up quests should not be back to back. Unless sixth tier allows for the wholesaling of knowledge points, spend 20 is pointless when the end of tree is reached. During certain points, the repeatable quests change, why doesn't it change when the end of the tree is reached?
If you are dead-set on having players waste their factories' production for 24 hours, at least reduce it to one, rather than three. Better to get rid of them altogether, nobody complained about them when they could be declined.

 

[DeletedUser590]

Today, I am stuck with :
- Train troups => I won't since I cannot fight anymore, as ennemy troups have now become too strong => I MUST DECLINE
- Build an Altar => I won't since I have no more place for that, except if I sell another Altar or something else , stupid => I MUST DECLINE

So we aren't testing anything. We are frozen.

I go back to my "Fridge", waiting for tomorrow's quests...

 

[DeletedUser]

Heyyyy... f***ing good change that I can only skip one quest per day.
This is a big jump to end the game... I'm through with it, cause there is no more space to build new buildings and nearly every building has Lvl 15. Can't skip the quests which want me to upgrade buildings now, so next action tomorrow.

Really great concept! Chapeau!

 

[DeletedUser778]

What we found is that a lot of our players skip a lot of quests in order to get a single quest that is either already completed, or very easy to complete, in order to gain coins and supplies as a quick reward. Quests should not be the main way to receive coins and supplies, but they are rather meant to provide guidance through the game, and to teach you how to develop your own economy in the best way possible. This is why we will limit the number of times you can decline quests.

Like said before a lot of players are used to the side quest as source of income for a long time and only be able to decline only one quest a day comes close to diasbling sidequests at all.
I would say the first step should be to enable quest declining again, but limit the number of quests that can be done to 10/15/20 or something per day and maybe limit the number a specific quest can be done to like 3? So quests can't be a main source of income anymore, but can still help a little and players can choose what rewards they need and what quests fit for them.

Then the quests itself should be adjusted: Train 1k units for example is not thought through well, because of the different weights of different unit types, so it should be not units, but weight of units, so it doesn't matter if you train dancers or treants, but it still takes very long, so the reward should be adjusted too, to a great reward so it is worth doing so. I think this quest has great potential, when changed properly, because it is no quest that can be done instant with the right timing.
Which quests are usefull and done and which not was already discussed in many post so I don't put more examples.

Also new quest with not only coins, supplies or sometimes goods as reward would be nice (that maybe even cost coins,supplies, or goods), so quests can be seen in another way then just income.
Possible new quests that came into my mind:
"A Festivity for the Ancestors" Collect and pay 1000 goods of each tier -> increase the cultural bonus to the next level for 8 hours.
"Rock solid Golems" Pay 2k marble and 500 gems -> Golems get 20% increased damage reduction against everything for 4 hours
(I never used golems in the outer provinces, because treants/sorceress are more usefull and overwriting the sorc debuff with the golem debuff is nearly never a good idea, but that's another topic)
"Improved Weapons" Collect and pay 10k supplies -> +10% damage for all units for 12 hours
"Bribing" Pay 100k coins -> reduce the trader fee to 25% for 2 hours

 

[DeletedUser590]

I would say the first step should be to enable quest declining again, but limit the number of quests that can be done to 10/15/20 or something per day and maybe limit the number a specific quest can be done to like 3? So quests can't be a main source of income anymore

I find this proposal very reasonable, quite simple and constructive. Congrats LordB ! And this could be done very soon, as a positive sign from Elvenar team.

 

[Jixel]

I have a suggestion for something that might help, if the goal is for players to not keep repeating/declining quests:
Allow exchange of Coins->Supplies and Supplies->Coins at the Wholesaler.

I believe the "standard" ratio is 10:1 (i.e. 10,000 coins = 1000 Supplies).
The Wholesaler could apply the usual 5:1 mark-up as follows :
Spend 10000 coins -> get 200 Supplies
Spend 1000 Supplies -> get 2000 coins.

This would mean that if a player gets "stuck" (e.g. low on Supplies) they always have a "last resort" option to get them building again - but it's expensive, so people will still generally try to build their cities to avoid needing it.

(I thought I saw this idea come up in the Ideas and Suggestions forum, either here, or on EN/US forums, but I can't see it there now ... )

 

[Brummbaer]

Hello jixel, I think this is not a good idea. The reason is, high level Player can get too easy supplies. (Correction: half the rate is 1:20 not 1:5)
Let me explain. Myself discovered about 130 cities and with my fellowship it's about 150. When I gave everybody neigbourly help
150 x 13200 = about 1.800.000 coins - OK it's clicking for about 30 minutes (==> ratio 1:20 ==> 90.000 supplies a day) without my own residances.
That's not the way.