Cheating or not?

[Heymrdiedier]

Are you giving goods at unfair ratios from one account to another? The no "pushing rule" doesn't make it clear whether it only applies to using small cities to push big ones. Maybe using a big one to push a small one is cheating too? If you are pushing, then you are using it to gain an advantage in tournaments, causing players with just 1 account to drop lower in the tournament rankings, and therefore getting a lower rank reward.

To be clear, I don't care about rank, just trying to look at it objectively.

of course using a big one to push a small one is cheating too.

But the question about unfair ratios is a hard one.
I accept 2 and 3 star trades from tier 1 to tier 2 and 3, and while the game thinks this is fair. I personally dont think its fair at all.
I also put up unfair 1 star trades from tier 1 to 2 and 3 according to the game (but not according to me) and they get accepted.
So im not sure if im pushing according tot the game or not, the current 1:4 ratios are actually unfair in my eyes, but not in games eyes.

 

[DeletedUser1596]

Any interactions between two cities of the same player can be considered cheating, but I doubt anyone would call you a cheater for occasional trade of resources that you desperately need for research. If you use those resources in tournament, that's another story.

I think that everyone feels what is cheatng and what is not.

 

[DeletedUser1511]

Btw if memory serves me right some player here from Netherland or was it Belgian server told a story how someone got caught but as it happens this player also happened to be a really big spender, and they (game co) didn't want to lose him/her so no punishment. Does anyone else remember this ? It was about a month or so ago. Or was it just an urban legend ?

This has never been literally spoken on the Dutch forum.
But everyone knows who it is on the Dutch forum.
And nothing is being done. But this player is probably the largest elvenar spender in the world. So here it is never seen in the Netherlands. Would always like to hear an example in the Netherlands who is already bound by pushing. I once saw a player who had a wonder of 65 players with 10 points in it, this player keeps his wonder away so nobody can look into it.

 

[Heymrdiedier]

This has never been literally spoken on the Dutch forum.
But everyone knows who it is on the Dutch forum.
And nothing is being done. But this player is probably the largest elvenar spender in the world. So here it is never seen in the Netherlands. Would always like to hear an example in the Netherlands who is already bound by pushing. I once saw a player who had a wonder of 65 players with 10 points in it, this player keeps his wonder away so nobody can look into it.

Thanks to privacy laws we dont know how this was handled on the Dutch forum. So any conclusions that were made are just guesses and you could call it 'fake news' .
Anyway if you see something suspicious just report it and let the mods handle it. Just because you dont see the player banned, doesnt meant they allow it because he/she is a big spender.

 

[SoggyShorts]

So im not sure if im pushing according tot the game or not, the current 1:4 ratios are actually unfair in my eyes, but not in games eyes.

I would say that cross tier trading your goods at 16:1 is a perfectly legit loophole. If the devs won't listen to us when we tell them it's an unfair trade, then they can hardly punish you for doing it.

I still think you might be unfairly beating other players in the tournament by using two accounts though-- it's not like the competition can realistically get other players to take 16:1 trades.

 

[Sir Squirrel]

@Heymrdiedier are you able to trade between your two cities or are they not able to see each others trades in the trader? Are they in the same FS? And if so are you giving deals for extra goods to your small city to get farther in the tourneys that is the question. If not and the trades are taken by other players or if they are fair trades taken by your big city, then it is not pushing. At least in my understanding of it. Also a lot of FS's will help with trades to smaller cities to help them get further in the tourneys, so not sure they could even call that pushing, if you help smaller cities in your FS out with cross tier trades is that pushing, I don't think so. So as long as you aren't giving your city trades you wouldn't give (or take) from other members in your fellowship I don't think it could be called cheating.
But I agree having the tourneys tied to optional tecs is a problem waiting to happen, and is creating an unfair advantage for those that skip the squad size upgrades. This would include most that cater, as they have no need for squad size upgrades as they don't fight. So they get to spend less KP's in the tec tree because they skip the squad size upgrades, then get a better deal catering in the tourneys as well. Sucks to be a fighter these days with these changes.

 

[Heymrdiedier]

no they aint in each others range (is that even possible after the player movement of months ago which placed my main city pretty much in the center)
And no not in the same FS (my main is in a fellowship that competes in the tournament so theres no room for a small player).

Also i produce tier 1 and 2, and only need a little bit of tier 1 to cater in the tournament, so all my spare goods can be traded 1:16 but in the direction everyone accepts (from lower tier to higher tier). Which is why i dont post 1:16 trades but rather 1:12.

But in conclusion from all your comments, i get the feeling im not cheating the way im playing now, which is great because thats what i also tought. So now back to the original topic?

 

[DeletedUser1596]

Anyway if you see something suspicious just report it and let the mods handle it.

This is not the right way to handle the situation. Not every reported player will be dealth with equally and not every cheating player will be reported at all. That would be unfair.

Inno team can see whether there are players with the same IP contributing to certain AW. They know exactly who is pushing and how much. This is how it works in every other similar game. So there is no point in reporting each other, if they wanted to do something about it, they would have done it a long time ago.

This really degrades this game a lot, since it takes away any fair competition from it.

 

[SoggyShorts]

no they aint in each others range......And no not in the same FS

So your 2 accounts aren't even trading with eachother? I was under the impression that your big city was taking cross-tier trades from your small city. If that's not happening I see no harm in having 2 accounts at all.

 

[Heymrdiedier]

So your 2 accounts aren't even trading with eachother? I was under the impression that your big city was taking cross-tier trades from your small city. If that's not happening I see no harm in having 2 accounts at all.

Ok i admit at the very start i think i might have given my new account 2k of each tier1 as a jump start. Altho im not sure about that, when i started it i think i only used the wholesalesman, who then was a good way to get a lot of tier 1 cheap (200 hammer and 2000 coins for 40 tier1)
But since i focussed on (over)production and not combat i never ran out of goods untill recently when im catering provinces that are way to far for my level account.

 

[CrazyWizard]

I see a lot of stuff here, and many talk about the dutch server. let me clarify a bit.

There were 2 players on the dutch server with push accounts owned by them (or so it turned out some by there friends)
both players ranked high.

Many players send in tickets, and eventually we responded on the forums, since we noticed not a single response that was statisfying to adress this "cheating" of those players.
We had screenshots and short movies where you could see +- 30 accounts login in 1 after the other and placing 9 points, 9 points, 9 points ect into a wonder.
But no response from innogames.

In the end we got an official statement on the forums FOR THE DUTCH SERVER (please do not use this statement for any other server than the dutch)

"As long as an account is "played" its legal to donate knowledge points in an wonder on another accounts owned by the same player"
"played" was defined as doing more activity on the account than pushing KP. like world map, upgrading, tournaments, neighbourly help ect.

I like to note that this is a fundamentally different statements that I have seen on other servers where the rules state you arent even allowed to join the same fellowship frrom the same IP adress. and it clearly stated that pushing of KP aint even allowed if the accounts are not owned by the same player.

There was also stated that the accused players were investigated and no infringement of the rules were found. (WHAT???!!!)

We have argued agains this statement ferocious, but they were not moved, in the end for the dutch server it became legal so we only had to option either loose the game agains cheaters or join the (legal) dark side.
In my opnion it's cheating but since on the DUTCH server it's legal, I now to do it as well, not because I wanted to, but because we were forced to do it since they (innogames) allowed it.

The legend of rulebending for a specific player started there, In my opinion the only correct action would have been if those 2 players would have been either banned,or stripped from there wonders.
Unfortunatly 1 of those 2 players is a player we recently made some rough calculations at with as a result that person spends annualy +-€100,000 on the game splitted over 4 accounts, it's also known that this players gives away diamonds to other fellowship members. (using the community managaer as a conduit, this was confirmed)

We can not prove but it's not hard to suspect that the reason this weird ruling was made to protect that massive amount of revenue created by that single player. even if it ment allowing cheating.
Again we can't prove but I surely suspect that thats the reason for the "official statement" on the dutch forum related to the dutch server.

 

[DeletedUser1596]

With this kind of money anyone would dominate the server even without cheating and it would be absolutely fine by me. But "selling" the rules is the greatest disappointment this game has to offer.

 

[SoggyShorts]

we recently made some rough calculations at with as a result that person spends annualy +-€100,000 on the game

That is...amazing.
I wonder what the persons situation is. I mean even if you were terminally ill and nearly bed ridden, for 100K euros a year you could pay someone to carry you on trips around the world. The wife and I just got back from a fairly lavish 2 month trip to 6 countries and it cost about 15K.

 

[CrazyWizard]

That is...amazing.
I wonder what the persons situation is. I mean even if you were terminally ill and nearly bed ridden, for 100K euros a year you could pay someone to carry you on trips around the world. The wife and I just got back from a fairly lavish 2 month trip to 6 countries and it cost about 15K.

Some people own more than others, what could be for you a few pennies, could be for another a loaf of bread feeding his family for a day.
the same applies to larger numbers there is always a bigger fish in the pond.
For example: for the woman of Bill Gates, Carlos Slim or Warren Buffet 100K is like a what a few cents is for the average human.

 

[CrazyWizard]

With this kind of money anyone would dominate the server even without cheating and it would be absolutely fine by me. But "selling" the rules is the greatest disappointment this game has to offer.

I totally agree with you, and when we can't prove thats the case here, It surely still feels like it.

On the other side it also has positive side effects, because since now it's "legal" (on the dutch server) new players have an easier time catching up. since others can now also use this technique and more easily catch up with the vets.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Some people own more than others

I get that, but I just don't think this game is that good. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy playing Elvenar, but for 100K there are a lot of entertainment options.

 

[DeletedUser1767]

I get that, but I just don't think this game is that good. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy playing Elvenar, but for 100K there are a lot of entertainment options.

Yeah, totally. I have a lot of fun with this game, but if I had that kind of money, I wouldn't have time to play this.

 

[Sir Squirrel]

Yeah I would pay someone to run my city, while I was off on my many trips. LMAO.

 

[PrimroseSylvia]

In the end we got an official statement on the forums FOR THE DUTCH SERVER (please do not use this statement for any other server than the dutch)

"As long as an account is "played" its legal to donate knowledge points in an wonder on another accounts owned by the same player"
"played" was defined as doing more activity on the account than pushing KP. like world map, upgrading, tournaments, neighbourly help ect.

Italian server's mods gave the same answer, but it's not in our statement.

 

[Marindor]

Hi guys,

Please allow me to give you some clarification. The rules are quite clear about this: Multiple accounts are allowed, creating (and using) them mainly to boost your other account(s) isn't. So when we see that certain accounts aren't being played in a normal way, but mainly used to boost other accounts, they're violating the rules. As @Heymrdiedier indicated above: The best way to handle this, is to contact the support team of that game version so they can take a look into it. They won't be able/allowed to share details with your, but if violation is found, they will act upon it. I'd also like to clear up that the rules are the same for everyone: Premium or non-premium players. With money you can buy diamonds for some ingame extra's, but not a different set of game rules.

As this discussion is going, I mainly read frustration about things that are going on on Live servers. Beta is not the right place to discuss about issues on Live servers. If you have any problems there, make sure you get in contact with their support teams or Community Managers so they can help you clarify the situation. Since there's nothing more to add to this discussion really here and it's getting too much into details about other servers, we will now close this thread. On Beta these kind of things are always a little different than on Live servers anyway, so if anything about how things are being handled on a certain Live server is unclear, please ask for clarification there as I'm not in the position to speak for my colleagues