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Battling versus catering in Scrolls Encounter

Discussion in 'Battle Help' started by Soleil, Mar 6, 2019.

  1. Soleil

    Soleil Guest

    In a conversation with @SoggyShorts we talked about acceptable losses in an encounter. Using an existing open scrolls province here is the information, I have no idea how to figure this out.

    Squad size 51 Enemy 37

    Cater 170 supplies + 70 Marble

    From my personal experience, I know I will lose 3 squads. I can beat the encounter but will lose 3 squads. In this particular scenario, I use only 3 cerebus’, Using more units I will lose 4 squads.

    I can train 11 cerebus’ in each slot which costs 154 supplies for each one.

    My military buildings takes up 22 squares

    I have a marble manufactory I can use for this although it’s not my boosted but to make 70 marble, it’s approx. 165 supplies. Less if I trade. My marble manufactory takes up 4 squares

    My questions are:

    1. Is it better to use 2 cereberus’ and 1 treant?

    2. Is training size equivalent to the 51 squad size?

    3. What is cheaper with losing 3 squads? Catering or Fighting
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 6, 2019
  2. Mykan

    Mykan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    1. You need to tell us the composition of the enemy, it will greatly impact suggestions about which troops to use. If you don't have access to all troop type yet then that is also useful to know what you can build. No point in suggesting something you can't make
    2. No, training size refers to how many troops you can train at your barracks and other facilities. This comes from armouries and some wonders. Squad size in combat comes from the tech tree and the squad size techs. Tournaments however use a percentage of your world map squad size
     
    Golden Awaken likes this.
  3. Soleil

    Soleil Guest

    @Mykan thank you for responding to this and any assistance you may have.

    Updated now, these are the last 3 I have in the Scrolls Province.
    Military buildings: 26 Squares
    Marble: 4 Squares
    Steel: 6 Squares
    Units I can produce: sword dancers II , archers, cerberus. 154 supplies to make 11

    Encounter #5
    Squad Size 51/37
    Catering: 170 Supplies 70 Marble (165 Supplies to make 70 Marble)
    Units: 2 Mist Walkers, 1 priest

    Encounter #7
    Squad Size: 51/52
    Catering: 1300 Gold/ 210 Supplies/ 35 Marble (83 Supplies to make 35 Marble)
    Units: 1 Mist Walker, 1 Priest

    Encounter #8
    Squad Size: 51/21
    Catering: 1000 gold / 1700 supplies / 26 steel (62 supplies to make 31 steel)
    Units: 5 Mist Walkers, 1 Priest

    Questions:
    1. Is it better to use:
    1-cerberus and 1 treant?
    2-cerberus and 1 Treant?
    2- cerberus Or
    3-cerberus < Do I lose all 3 cerberus squads if health falls below the line where you have to use diamonds to replenish health and restore the full squads?

    2. How many units do I have to make for 1 full squad size? 55? (55x3)?

    3. Which is cheaper if I lose 3 squads? Catering or Fighting

    4. If catering is cheaper, then for scrolls encounters should I always cater?

    5. If catering is cheaper, where is the break-even point?

    I am grateful for any help. I will probably not finish these encounters until I have the final squad size and Treants researched. You can use treants in the equation still. This will be helpful as well for when I'm in advanced chapters, like chapter 3!

    While people are reading this and figuring this out, I’m going to go pick up all the discarded candy wrappers players are throwing around in my other city, shoving it in my face, that I can’t get past the require accept trades quest or acquire tier 2 goods, in the Valentine’s event.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 6, 2019
  4. shadowblack

    shadowblack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2016
    First of all, always use 5 squads, no matter how many squads the enemy has. You do not gain anything for using less than 5.

    Second, Treant is weak to both Light Ranged and Mage units. Mist Walkers are Light Ranged, Priests are Mage units. Therefor you should avoid using Treants here - they will take extra damage from both enemies, deal less damage, and are slow, making it difficult for them to even reach the Mist Walkers.

    Third, if you fight manually, bring one squad of Cerberi for each squad of Priests. The rest should be Sword Dancers. Both Cerberus and Sword Dancer are Light Melee, so they are strong against Light Ranged and Mage units, but Cerberus is better against Mage units and not as strong against Light Ranged. It is best to use the Cerberus' speed to reach and take out the Priests, then use the Sword Dancers to take out the Mist Walkers.

    Fourth, the above point applies only if there are few obstacles on the battle field. If there are many obstacles and it will take a long time for your Sword Dancers to reach the Mist Walkers, then it might be better to use 5 squads of Cerberi. But that is ONLY if there are a lot of obstacles in the way.
     
    Golden Awaken, Mykan and Wowwie like this.
  5. Soleil

    Soleil Guest

    @shadowblack thank you for the information. I get some of these mixed up, mist walkers always look like melee to me. Not like the archer who is holding a big old bow. I haven’t used any of my treants yet. Only Cerberus and a few sword dancers. The orcs are worse for me. They all look the same. I constantly hover and see what they are.

    When I used 5 I lost 4, when I use 3 I lose 3. And how can I make that even better and lose only 2.

    If it costs 770 supplies to make 1 squad, then I use up 2310 supplies using 3 squads, 3080 if I lose 4 squads. If that’s the math, I don’t know. If I’m losing 2310 in supplies by losing 3 squads then catering is cheaper. But soggy shorts mentioned something about squares and I have no idea how to use that as part of an equation.

    I also have blue encounters, these should be easier…

    So quit getting my units confused, got it. Still seems like it’s cheaper to just cater a scrolls encounter and not battle. :/
    But I will try 1 cerberus and 1 sword dancer in Encounter 8 and see if I can beat it.
    I was able to beat Encounter #5 and #8 with 1 cerberus and 1 sword dancer but lost both of them. so maybe you pick and choose which ones to cater based on cost of units? I should have catered #5 and battled #8?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 6, 2019
  6. shadowblack

    shadowblack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2016
    Like I said, you should always, ALWAYS, use 5 squads. The more squads you have the more damage you can do and the more enemies you can kill before they get to attack you again. By using less than 5 squads you increase you own losses and thus you need to spend more supplies training new units.

    Scroll fights are generally among the hardest in the game. Mist Walkers have the highest initiative in the game - 21. No player unit has such high initiative, thus Mist Walkers ALWAYS move first, and in most cases get to attack you and kill some of your units before you even get to make a move.
     
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  7. Soleil

    Soleil Guest

    @shadowblack I beat the encounters using 1 cerberus and 1 sword dancer. How is that worse than what I was doing of losing 4 and 3 units? Encounter 5 was cheaper had I catered it, Encounter #8 was cheaper to battle.
     
  8. shadowblack

    shadowblack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2016
    If you can beat the encounter with 1 Cerberus and 1 Sword Dancer, then you can also beat it with 1 Cerberus and 4 Sword Dancers (or 2 Cerberus and 3 Sword Dancer ,or any other combination of the units). And you will have lower loses, too (or at most the same losses).
     
    SoggyShorts likes this.
  9. Soleil

    Soleil Guest

    Not in any of mine I've done, my losses were greater using more units. By using a full squad of 5, you're giving mist walkers and priests more targets to hit. Because as you said mist walkers go first. I don't replenish the health with diamonds so I'm going to lose those units no matter what, not the encounter.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 6, 2019
  10. shadowblack

    shadowblack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2016
    No unit in the game can attack more than one target per round. If you have 2 squads versus 2 enemy squads, each of your squads will get hit once, or one squad will get hit twice.

    If you have 5 squads versus 2 enemy squads, then 2 of your squads will get hit once each and 3 squads will not get hit at all, or one squad will get hit twice and 4 squads will not get hit at all. After that your five squads can do more damage to the enemy than if you had only 2 squads (not counting special cases where the terrain blocks the movement of your units). If 5 squads lose 20 units each, that's a total of 100 units lost; if 2 squads lose 60 units each, that's a total of 120 units lost. I can't think of a single case where 2 squads would be better than 5 squads. If you manage to find such a case, please provide a screenshot - I'd love to see it.
     
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  11. Soleil

    Soleil Guest

    @shadowblack maybe I'm not understanding the diamonds page then. Here's a screenshot I found. Does this person gain back all of these units, partial units or none at all?
    [​IMG]
     
  12. shadowblack

    shadowblack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2016
    When a squad gets hit during battle some of the units in the squad get killed. After the battle you have the option to pay Diamonds to revive the dead units. The amount you need to pay depends on the number of dead units in each squad. If you do not pay - which is what most of us do - you lose the dead units, but keep the ones that survived.

    On the picture you posted you can see a green bar with a number below each squad's portrait. That green bar is an indicator how many units survived, while the number shows the exact amount of surviving units. If the bar is full all units survived and there's no one to revive, so the Diamonds button shows 0 and is inacitve. If any units were killed, then the bar is not full and you can spend Diamonds to get back the lost units.
     
  13. Soleil

    Soleil Guest

    Well heck, I may have been doing better than I thought I was lmao. I thought you lost all of these. That's what I was counting as losing a squad. I only have 1 more scrolls encounter but have some steel I can play around with. Thank you @shadowblack that was really helpful.
     
  14. Soleil

    Soleil Guest

    Played around with a few and tried to get an apples to apples comparison. Found the best match in a magic dust province. 2 abbots each same squad sizes. 51/39

    I used 5 cerberus’ in the first one lost 10 units, the abbots hit 2 cerberus’

    On the second encounter, I used 2 cerberus’. The abbots hit 1 cerberus and were so mad I used only 2 they hit it harder lmao. Lost 12 units.

    Tried 2 more, this time it was 1 abbot and 1 steinling. With a squad of 5 I lost 12 units, with a squad of 2 they hit them harder and lost 14 units. That’s not very nice. I use less squads and somehow the enemy units get slightly stronger!

    Now knowing I’m not actually losing full squads, this is way better. I’m still not very good picking the right units to battle when it’s a combination of enemies, but I’ll stop using 2 squads. That is, of course, until I have the last squad size upgrade and THEN see what happens!
     
  15. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    Are you clicking "autofight" or fighting manually? Even if you don't ever want to do it manually a great way to learn what is happening is to start the fight on manual and immediately click the button on the left" finish battle automatically" then the computer will take over and you can watch the battle unfold.
    Edit: available On browser only.
     
  16. Soleil

    Soleil Guest

    If I know the outcome is a sure win, with no losses, usually auto-fight. (or if I’m too lazy to manually fight) With combinations enemies, manual. I also like to watch battle animations.

    Another reason I used less squads, besides the fact I thought I was losing full squads (and thanks to shadowblack I now know I’m not) is because there has to be a reason, I can go into battle with less than 5 squads. Maybe it’s because if you’re low on units you can still battle and win the encounter or it’s those encounters where it’s easy to get your units bottled up with terrain issues, but idk. Sometimes I’ll accidentally block my own units from moving back to the back line with 5 squads, even without terrain issues. I know, not very good.

    In a silk encounter with no terrain issues, when I used 5 squads, I lost more units than when I used 3 squads. I had my sword dancer take out the sorceress, then moved it to the back line (out of reach of the other npcs) and let the 2 treants take over. Maybe it was a fluke, but each time I did this, I had less unit losses than the original 5 squad line up. My encounters are probably way easier to do than someone in higher chapters where the combination enemy units, is much more complicated.

    My squad size is now max at 69 and training treants now. I would still be very grateful for help on picking the right units, getting through the encounters/provinces to chapter 3. I’ve gone to Gems of knowledge to learn, but it’s kind of a catch all and focuses more on upper chapters and it’s confusing to me.

    If someone is really good at battling, it would be super helpful for players like me, and those who haven’t tried it, to put together a training manual on the forum, (maybe stickied?) a break-down of battling when you’re moving from one chapter to the next. Or if it’s already up here, my bad for missing it.

    But if it’s not, maybe a simple sheet like this?:
    Province Encounters From Chapter 1 to Chapter 2 (Elves)
    Marble Encounter – Enemy Units: Units to use: Tips:
    Steel Encounter – Enemy Units: Units to Use: Tips:
    Planks Encounter – Enemy Units: Units to Use: Tips:
    and so forth

    I’m getting ready to go from chapter 2 to chapter 3 and have more than 10 provinces remaining, I’d be more than happy to help out too with my battle results.
     
  17. Karvest

    Karvest Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Most of skilled newcomers on beta don't fight in openworld provinces anyway due to skipping SS upgrade techs.
     
  18. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    there is a guide for fighting by @Mykan on the US forums.
     
    Golden Awaken likes this.
  19. Golden Awaken

    Golden Awaken Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2018
    Greetings Everyone ;)
    @SoggyShorts @Mykan Would you be kind enough to provide us with the link of this guide for fighting, it would really be appreciated :)
    Kind regards, GA
     
  20. Soleil

    Soleil Guest

    @Golden Awaken I didn't know it existed, it's really fantastic and I learned about placement, which I thought maybe there could be something about placement of troops. But it's a bit overwhelming too. I'd like to see one chapter by chapter without all of the comments in between.

    @Karvest why would people treat beta differently than their regular realms? What if new battle stuff came out?
     

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