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Discussion Winter Magic

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Quite frankly, I am not even sure how 3 bears can be fully utilized in a sustainable way. With the amount of pet food I am getting (and I basically do not miss refreshes and craft all PF I see) I can do 3x Fire Phoenix feeding and 1-2 Brown Bear feedings a week, and that would keep my PF stock flat over long periods of time. OK, with L30 Timewarp you can drop down to 2x Fire Phoenix feedings (but I don't think you can get down to 1x, or can you?), which means I can do up to 3x BB feedings per week. The last event brought quite a bit of PF as a one off, so we'll see if that would be a somewhat sustainable source. Apart from that, if I have to feed more BBs I'd have to drop diamonds on MA refreshes, and that may add up pretty quickly.

Having said that, hungry bears still produce heavy units for free, so 20 of these may add a good chunk of troops that won't need to be produced regularly. Though I don't know if that would be material enough for people clearing 60 provinces per tournament every week.

those "20 bears" are only 1/3rd brown bears.
I am following my stock of petfood for a long time now and it's sustainable for me.
there might me a horrible week, and some craptimes in which you het 3 petfood in 1 timeframe (as you can only build 2 in 6 hours)
In general I get a little bit more than 5 perfood a week, more like 1 a day on a long term average.

This for me is enough to sustain my production. but as you mention it will be impossible tot sustain much more. at least not without spending diamonds on recipe refreshes.
Those free units are surely welcome but not the reason why someone can do that much in the tournaments again sustainable every week week in week out.

Thats why I say bring on some more pets en the problem is solved.

Unfortunatly the TS is so much in his own projection of reality that he doesn't seem to be willing to understand, I hope he gets some profesional help soon, this ain't healthy.
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
You don't really need to feed all your bears each week. Feeding 4 bears every 2 weeks give you way more troops than feeding 2 bears every week.
 

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
Quite frankly, I am not even sure how 3 bears can be fully utilized in a sustainable way. With the amount of pet food I am getting (and I basically do not miss refreshes and craft all PF I see) I can do 3x Fire Phoenix feeding and 1-2 Brown Bear feedings a week

You might not have to feed the bears every week. If you have a very large training size and have avoided enough of the optional squad size techs you have a great advantage since battles are based on your squad size, not training size. Fill the three buildings with troops to collect, have your MH full of supplies, your workshops ready with toolboxes and mostly gold hands for visits with your FS waiting. Then you feed the bears. With 3 bears and level 30 Simia Sapiens, you get a collection bonus of 190% of your training size. That's a good first collection. With the time instants from the spire you should be able to load a building with the troops you want and collect them several times with your MH. Collect from your workshops and do visits and more troop collections. To be honest, I haven't looked closely at how many time instants you get from the spire, but it seems to me that it is more than a couple of days worth.
 

Deleted User - 81190

Guest
there might me a horrible week, and some craptimes in which you het 3 petfood in 1 timeframe (as you can only build 2 in 6 hours)
How is it craptime? Surely you can craft all of these, that's what time instants are for ;) I remember I posted somewhere screenshot of 4 PF out of 5 slots - this was when we had 3 refreshes a day though, so before MA adjustments. Haven't seen more than 2 PF at a time since then. And 5-6 PF a week sounds pretty consistent with what I have observed as a long-term average.

You don't really need to feed all your bears each week.
You might not have to feed the bears every week.
That's a good point, I didn't think about that. Because there is no penalty on accumulation of time boosts, troops and pet food, you can do production supercycles less frequently. The only problem might be supplies, as regular are capped, and instants are not easy to come by in volume.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
You might not have to feed the bears every week. If you have a very large training size and have avoided enough of the optional squad size techs you have a great advantage since battles are based on your squad size, not training size. Fill the three buildings with troops to collect, have your MH full of supplies, your workshops ready with toolboxes and mostly gold hands for visits with your FS waiting. Then you feed the bears. With 3 bears and level 30 Simia Sapiens, you get a collection bonus of 190% of your training size. That's a good first collection. With the time instants from the spire you should be able to load a building with the troops you want and collect them several times with your MH. Collect from your workshops and do visits and more troop collections. To be honest, I haven't looked closely at how many time instants you get from the spire, but it seems to me that it is more than a couple of days worth.
The question is how much can / want you to extend?
I have 12 armouries combined with a level 30 dwarven bulwark and Shrine of the shrewdy shrooms, this gives me a leadtime of 2 feedings every 9 days.
I could use a trick to extend it to 10 days but I got tired of that and no longer use it. partly because the longer it extends the more timeboosters I need to use and the more limiting my supplies are.
As for the spire depending on your luck that week between 200 and 300 hours a week thats surely more than a couple of days. this assuming your guild is able to muster the 1030 point required to het the the second last stage, and off course reaching it yourself as well.


How is it craptime? Surely you can craft all of these, that's what time instants are for ;) I remember I posted somewhere screenshot of 4 PF out of 5 slots - this was when we had 3 refreshes a day though, so before MA adjustments. Haven't seen more than 2 PF at a time since then. And 5-6 PF a week sounds pretty consistent with what I have observed as a long-term average.



That's a good point, I didn't think about that. Because there is no penalty on accumulation of time boosts, troops and pet food, you can do production supercycles less frequently. The only problem might be supplies, as regular are capped, and instants are not easy to come by in volume.
That booster could just as easily be used to make troops ;) thats why I don't like it.

As for not feeding your bears and "saving it for later" this will not result in better a better performance.

There are few problems.

  • how many hammers you can muster in a short 12h period to create troops, this limits the amount of time boosters you could use
  • Every time you miss a cycle (in my case 4,5 days) you miss out on 4,5 days of bonus production thats a lot of troops that need another 54 hours of boosters to compensate for the loss earlier, this means for the same result you need to use twice the amount of supplies required now for booster production and then another 54 hours on top. thats a lot/ to much of supplies at leastr for now.
You also can't decide when this "magical 12 hours" happen, it might be a large part of the night in which you can't produce much hammers or during the middle of the tower (where you also need the supplies), if you are lucky it's in the dead timezone between friday night and sunday afternoon, then you can go all out and use some more boosters.

I also hope to aquire another magical workshop in the tower, those will absolutly help in improving supply production a lot. those buildings are indeed magical ;)
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
I don't have that many armories and high level AWs, and my schedule is like spending 8-10 days worth of time boosts from spire + 200-300% supplies boosts from MA once a week. If I would be forced to switch to 2 weeks cycle due to low PF, I would loose way less than you. But if there would be an option to feed more bears less frequent, I'll definitely go this way and get more troops.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
I don't have that many armories and high level AWs, and my schedule is like spending 8-10 days worth of time boosts from spire + 200-300% supplies boosts from MA once a week. If I would be forced to switch to 2 weeks cycle due to low PF, I would loose way less than you. But if there would be an option to feed more bears less frequent, I'll definitely go this way and get more troops.

True thats indeed an option, in that scenario

But the point again is that the key to control it all is with the amound of aviable petfood. that was the main point I made, no matter how many pets you have, you are bound by the amound of petfood you can spend. so the solution to the so called "problem" is with creating more pet options to feed, not less.
 

Deleted User - 81190

Guest
That booster could just as easily be used to make troops ;) thats why I don't like it.
If PF is your limiting factor, then spending 3h worth of boosts to get 1 PF which allows you to get +50% production for 12 hours (and much more if preproducing) vs 3h worth of production (even if amplified by 2x bears) should be a pretty straightforward call ;)

But damn, you have some long production cycles. If you're running off 9 days, then indeed considerations for the rest of us are quite different from that setup. My troop producers run dry in 5-7 hours each, so I can't even do 1 day worth of preproduction.
 

Arthus

Well-Known Member
Bears not only massively increase production of normal units, but also produce a lot of special units which hardly die if used against their most desired opponent (frogs 3* against light melee units etc). Combined with valorian buildings and orc stategist buildings these players produce tons of speciality heavy units, which can be used in multiple tournaments as a very beneficial help. Producing 8 additional squads of frogs, orc warriors, vallorian champions and orc strategists every 48h gives a lot of advantage combined with 400%+ increase of normal army production used with time boosters from spire.

This shows to me that spire of eternity's multiplayer main reason of creation was to boost brown bears usage for certain players.
Ofc I was already attacked personally by bear-blessed squad on my live server's forum but it's normal, lobby of interests has to protect their bears, no one of them would like any nerfs etc because they couldn't make 16k-20k of points in tournaments for 4 straight weeks or so.

Anyway, the topic was Winter Magic being punishment for all players because of single players being able to get 24 bears total while not paying any $ for diamonds. Taking actions against community instead of taking actions against these specific players, who strongly used 1-st day of event to get 180+ currency per quest before it was lowered, to gain massive advantage of event keys over other players, was just a bad move. I hope that something changes and carnival will be different, but informations about lowered prizes and chances doesn't look good. I wished for any explanation about Winter's Event but it seems that they changed opinion and they won't post any official statement, as it's already weeks after Winter event.

The main problem of winter event in my opinion was not even weak prizes - it was making event like a slot machines - strategy game cannot be random.
Of course ignoring pleads to add Tower of the Winter king to the prizes etc was just terrible in my opinion, but we don't see best buildings in event for a long now and it seems we won't ever again.
 
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chris0707070707

Active Member
Hi,
I have an unpleasant task to correct some false statements and simple (though sophisticated) lies of a certain user here on beta forum, who puts our community on live servers in a bad light. I don't intend to argue with anybody, my only intention is to correct some false accusations of "cheating", "abusing the system", "attacking somebody" and so on.
I'd like to shortly introduce myself. I'm the player with those mythical 24 bears which Arthus is reffering to all the time. He writes "they", but he means speciffically me since I am the only one with +400% unit production boost. I am also that evil person with 12 mermaid paradises he mentiones so often. According to his conspiracy theories, I am the main reason for all the bad thing happenning to elvenar community right now and responsible for all the suffering you will have to endure in the future... and so on. But let's be serious.

Dear Arthus, let me remind you the chain of events:

1. After you had claimed that 188 currency/quest on day one was the reason I got a huge advantage over other players and after you had accused me of me being a cheater, our CM (with my permission of course) has made it a public knowledge how many quests I had completed during the Zodiac event. At the moment the game run out of the main prizes (6 full sets of bears and 162 artifacts) it was exactly 1607 quests. It wasn't just me claiming this, it was an official information from our CM back then. It was on October 12th 2019, 5 days before the event ended. I managed to complete 400 additional quests after that, which makes it 2000 quests in total. It was also official.

Arthus, please let's go through some basic math (once again).
As a matter of fact i got +6000 additional currency for day one quests, but let's assume I didn't, just for a second. I want to prove a certain point.

Completing 2000 quests (80 keys for each quest 150-2000) resulted in gaining at about 154 000 keys for quests alone. Additional currency from chests: I don't know exactly, 30 000, probably closer to 40 000 as far as I can remember. But let's assume it was just 26 000.
Avg. cost pro bear set (3 bears + 27 artifacts) = 24 000
180 000 / 24 000 = 7.5

It means I got 7 additional bear sets, which makes it 8 sets in total (7 full sets + 3 bears + 13-14 artifacts for set nr. 8).

So much for your theory regarding 188 currency/quest on day one being a reason for 24 bears in total. So much for your claims me and the others were "cheating" and "exploiting" 188 currency/quest. The only real reason were those 2000 quests completed.

Btw. let me remind you that I was one of those players who tried to warn IG what would happen, long before the event went live:
https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/autumn-zodiac.13647/page-10#post-77868
https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/autumn-zodiac.13647/page-35#post-79017
No one believed at that time that the damage would be as huge as I had predicted, but my prediction turned to be correct.

2. You already had your explanation back then, but it wasn't enough. You came up with some other public accusations and conspiracy theories here on beta forums, claiming me and IG team building some kind of a plot. According to your theory, someone from the IG team must have given me an information in advance, so I knew I had to push as hard as I could on day one, before the reduction from 188 to 80 keys/quest happened. You were banned for those lies and accusations for a month both here on beta and on our forums. By the way, I bet there is no other person in the Elvenar community worldwide, who managed to be banned so many times as you did. Two bans on FB, two on Instagram, one here on beta and one on our forums... and every single time it was for the same reason: toxic behavior, lies, false accusations and conspiracy theories.

3. I can see you are trying to find new/old audience for your conspiracy theories here on beta again. It's really sad. Do as you please, but most of the people learn from their mistakes, why don't you ?

Some other "truths" from your recent posts here that need to be corrected:
"They are trying to make it like "you are all jealous that we've got 24 bears, you should worship us that we cheated the system""
No one has ever said that. Nor anything similar, it's nothing but a lie. I could ask you to show me/us some quotation of such statements, but there's no point - there can't be any quotations of something that never existed.
"and now we will win every single tournament from now on and any other player has no chance"
Nothing but a lie. Who would say something like this ???
"who strongly used 1-st day of event to get 180+ currency per quest before it was lowered, to gain massive advantage of event keys over other players"
Again. It's a lie and you know it.
"instead of deleting excess bears of these system-cheaters"
"Cheaters", sure... Everyone who has ever managed to do something better than you in the game was a cheater in your opinion. Always, every single time. We got used to it.
"a lot of advantage combined with 400%+ increase of normal army production used with time boosters from spire.
This shows to me that spire of eternity's multiplayer main reason of creation was to boost brown bears usage for certain players"
OMG. A new conspiracy theory... IG introduced the multiplayer mode for me alone (since I'm the only player with +400% unit production boost)... That's too much even by your standards, c'mon...

Please Arthus, try to stop being so toxic. Try to enjoy the game and some interactions with other people. Just a tiny little bit. Many people offered you some help in improving your skills, many tried to help you just by talking to you and giving you some attention you obviously seek, but one must want to be helped in order it to work. Complaining about absolute everything and everybody is not the right way. Find some positives, there are plenty of them all around.

I for my part would like to apologize to everyone on this forum for this post. I know it's not the right place for such "statements" and "discussions" concerning some issues from our live servers, but me and some other players find it difficult to ignore what happens here. We think one has to be patient, but such posts as these from Arthus put our community in bad light - and enough is enough. We are a small, but friendly community (for the most part ;)), there is much positive energy among us with no jealousy, bad blood or unhealthy competition and we feel we just don't deserve this.
 
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Heymrdiedier

Well-Known Member
I'd like to shortly introduce myself. I'm the player with those mythical 24 bears which Arthus is reffering to all the time. He writes "they", but he means speciffically me since I am the only one with +400% unit production boost. I am also that evil person with 12 mermaid paradises he mentiones so often. According to his conspiracy theories, I am the main reason for all the bad thing happenning to elvenar community right now and responsible for all the suffering you will have to endure in the future... and so on. But let's be serious.

[SARCASME] Yes, its all your fault! I hate you![/SARCASME]


theres one thing i wonder tho, do you still enjoy the game now? honestly with only 3 bears i feel like its gotten too easy already and don't see much challenge in the game anymore, and thus making me loose interest. (well maybe thats mainly because tournament could use a fresh makeover to make it interesting again). i cant imagine having 8 brown bears.
 

chris0707070707

Active Member
theres one thing i wonder tho, do you still enjoy the game now?
This is a good question... It's a little bit complicated ;)
We used to have a pretty good, healthy high-level tournament competition on our servers before the Zodiac event. A competition on a very high level. Results above 20k happened occasionally and 15k was becoming a standard. Then the summer event happened with it's tons of timeboosters. Me and some other players found a way to make the endless quest line really endless and posted some exact instructions on our forum. We have some very good players who don't hestitate a second to share their knowledge and ideas with everybody else. We know exactly that some small exclusive groups of OP players don't serve the game too well in a long term. Many other players profited from that guidance and approached the summer event very aggressively, more aggressively than they normally would have. The result was a significant amount of players with 3-12 mermaid paradises and literally thousands of hours of timeboosters. So far so good, almost everyone was happy, but a little bit concerned about what would happen next.

Then the Zodiac event came to beta... With it's endless quest line again, with it's waaay to powerful 85-key chests and with it's ridiculous amount of currency per quest. With it's unlimited, very powerful main prizes on top of it. We just couldn't believe that IG didn't learn anything from the summer event. It was pretty obvious to us what would happen, how it would shake the game's balance and that's why I have posted some warnings here on the beta forum back then, asking for some drastic cuts and limitations for the live version. At least the amount of currency /quest has been reduced, but it wasn't enough.

So we did it again. We helped other players by posting a step-by-step instructions about how to prepare for this specific event and how to approach it, with the result that hunderts of players were able to "win" 2 brown bears, dozens of players winning 3 of them and maybe 15-20 players winning 4 to 6 brown bears. Helping the others to get as many bears as possible was our way to keep the tournament competition alive.

The funny thing is, that, (opposed to what Arthus claims,) brown bears changed absolutely nothing in the tournaments top-rank-lists. Elvenstats don't lie ;) The strongest fellowships and the strongest players are exactly the same as 6-12-18 months ago. My point is, the distance between them and the avg. players increased significantly, but there still is a good amount of healthy competition among them. Some players from different fellowships seem to be almost unbeatable and unreachable for the others, but again, that's the same group as a year ago, for the most part.

Back to the question if I still enjoy the game. Well, I still do, but there are also things I do not like. I don't like the fact that our cities became way to powerful, resulting in a possibility/neccessity of completing 70-85 provinces x 6 rounds every single tournament. Sometimes I have a feeling that I (and some other players) play in god-mode and I really miss good old days, when you had to work really hard on your city efficiency and balance in order to be able to compete against the strongest players. I miss times when every single detail made a huge difference (I've been playing for 2 years by now, so it's not that long).
The game (or at least the tournament competition) became much less strategic, it became a hard work instead, but the general answer is "yes", I still do enjoy it. Or, I should rather say, I still enjoy it a little bit more than I hate it ;)

I absolutely hated the Foe-style mechanics of the Winter Magic event, but I also think that it was a step in the right direction to reduce the amount of currency for the late-cycle quests, along with making it almost impossible to gain a huge amount of timeboosters this time.
 
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Arthus

Well-Known Member
Well as i said it was obvious that a lobby of interests comes even here to taunt players who don't agree with them and won't worship them, as they are using reported stalking. It's obvious, that current situation in events in specific players fault and it's my opinion based on facts, it was them to use Autumn Zodiac's 1st day's scandal to their benefit, not me or majority of players.

won't dive deeper into the topic of 24 bears - scandalic community management of polish forums was reported multiple times to Inno central without any response and I've told Marindor that i won't mix terrible polish forums into beta - i'm here to discuss possible changes to fix evolution buildings which broke the balance of the game.

I also hate FOE-style in Winter magic, reducing currency of the late-cycle quests would be nice but for any quests you need proper rewards and Winter Event failed to delived in that aspect and so will carnival according to reward leaks. Luckily, at least event system will be back to the old theater-one with chests according to Karvest.

I don't like the fact that they wrote about posting statement after Winter event and then they didn't deliver any statement. It's disrespectful in my opinion, dodging questions.
 

Elvercikk

Member
Well as i said it was obvious that a lobby of interests comes even here to taunt players who don't agree with them and won't worship them, as they are using reported stalking.

@Arthus
I have one bear and I know you only write lies. What lobby are you writing about?
You have been warned again on the Polish forum. Will you still write your sick visions?
 
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