Discussion Winter Magic

[Arthus]

In client files, same way as elven architect get info for their site. Note that it can be changed in any way until it's officially announced and even hotfixed after.

Let's hope it will because atm it's weak as hell...
I'm scared that we will miss "generous winter event and it's glorious prizes" soon.

Where did you find this info? I would like to know more about this upcoming building.

There's a file in client, some people get informations this way.

It seems that valentine event will be introduction to carnival on the same way as "Queen of the Seas" was to "Summer Sirens", because evolution building combines valentines and carnival themes into one. Ofc if they didn't decide to combine 2 events into one which i doubt but who knows.
Atm i'm waiting for feedback from team about Winter Event when it ends on live servers.

 

[Lovec Krys]

So I suppose, if anyone is after seeds, it's better to craft merchants than build that useless building.

 

[Deleted User - 81190]

IIRC the new building is almost exact carbon copy of Stonehenge, except it generates coins instead of supplies as a base.

 

[Arthus]

Any statement about Event's failure and planned changes for Carnival Event?
I've heard there will be a statement on forums and it's nowhere to be found

 

[Karvest]

As far as I see - Carnival is the same old theater event with slightly adjusted chests (no more 4x8h booster with high chance - 2x5h with low chance instead, + nerfed some other chests).

 

[Arthus]

Thanks for info. I wonder what this punishment of events came from. I bet we pay for spire.

 

[Karvest]

That punishment to get rid of free players taking unlimited prizes like it was on mermaids and bears.

 

[Arthus]

I know even which players, but they deny this on live forums and they demand worship for their ammounts of bears (24). It's clear that as a whole community, we were punished for single players actions. I still don't understand why they didn't remove their currency after Autumn Zodiac day 1 when they got 180 currency per quest, and they set 80 currency limit on day2. This allowed these players to get a lot of additional bears with cosmic ammounts of currency from day 1, thanks to using time-shorteners (which they got during Summer Sirens, another event with big ammounts of prizes).

We felt very punished after Winter's Magic. It took the magic out of winter. Looks like the same will happen to carnival. Not only weak evo building, but also weak dailies and weak chances as you wrote. After that information i know why there's no official response to winter magic - it's hard to say "deal with it, it will be always weak as this from now on, we gave you too much and now we must take it back" .

From now on, i'll treat events as a simple addition to everyday's game. But they are nothing special anymore, since Evolution buildings came into existence. Worst addition ever, set buildings should come back. But it's my opinion. Let it be as it will be.

 

[Karvest]

Chances to get dailies are not weaker than they were, just distributed a bit differently. Only time boosts are nerfed a lot.
Some dailies have nice animations, as always.

 

[CrazyWizard]

I know even which players, but they deny this on live forums and they demand worship for their ammounts of bears (24). It's clear that as a whole community, we were punished for single players actions. I still don't understand why they didn't remove their currency after Autumn Zodiac day 1 when they got 180 currency per quest, and they set 80 currency limit on day2. This allowed these players to get a lot of additional bears with cosmic ammounts of currency from day 1, thanks to using time-shorteners (which they got during Summer Sirens, another event with big ammounts of prizes).

We felt very punished after Winter's Magic. It took the magic out of winter. Looks like the same will happen to carnival. Not only weak evo building, but also weak dailies and weak chances as you wrote. After that information i know why there's no official response to winter magic - it's hard to say "deal with it, it will be always weak as this from now on, we gave you too much and now we must take it back" .

From now on, i'll treat events as a simple addition to everyday's game. But they are nothing special anymore, since Evolution buildings came into existence. Worst addition ever, set buildings should come back. But it's my opinion. Let it be as it will be.

Like setbuildings were never broken because they were to OP. Lol

The above set is like what? 30-40 expansions worth of production?

I remember that with kirit and karat combined it was like 60+ expansions

 

[Arthus]

View attachment 6863
Like setbuildings were never broken because they were to OP. Lol

The above set is like what? 30-40 expansions worth of production?

I remember that with kirit and karat combined it was like 60+ expansions

A lot of things were broken but it was not the reason to totally abandon set buildings.
They were only affecting economy of the game, now bears destroyed military aspect of the game because whole rivalry in tournaments is won by the players with the biggest ammount of brown bears (8).

 

[Lovec Krys]

now bears destroyed military aspect of the game because whole rivalry in tournaments is won by the players with the biggest ammount of brown bears (8).

That might be only partialy true for players playig more or less the same amount of time, The real tournament winner is player with most cleaned provinces.
Yes, bears are great help in training army, but if your rival has half your bear count, he will still beat you if he has more cleaned provinces than you.
For example last tournament I cleaned 56 provinces for all 6 rounds and I was still third on my server with 15120 points. And even if I had 20 bears nothing would change this, since players on first and second places simply have more cleaned provinces and it will take a lot of time to catch up them.
So in other words for top tournament players the game of winning tournament has changed from how much provinces I'm able to fight/catter to how much provinces I have cleared.

 

[CrazyWizard]

A lot of things were broken but it was not the reason to totally abandon set buildings.
They were only affecting economy of the game, now bears destroyed military aspect of the game because whole rivalry in tournaments is won by the players with the biggest ammount of brown bears (8).

Yes the bear makes an impact, and it's a massive one, but so did some sets.

This is my current tournament score, its a score that shows a very very very long term trend, I would have never managed that without my "supersets"
While not at powerfull as the bears obviosly those supersets gave me an edge in general always beat the competition because I simply could negotiate more provincies and therefore be more effective with my units. Yet I managed rarily to become first since there is always some oddball going all in in 1 or a few tournaments instead of all.

That might be only partialy true for players playig more or less the same amount of time, The real tournament winner is player with most cleaned provinces.
Yes, bears are great help in training army, but if your rival has half your bear count, he will still beat you if he has more cleaned provinces than you.
For example last tournament I cleaned 56 provinces for all 6 rounds and I was still third on my server with 15120 points. And even if I had 20 bears nothing would change this, since players on first and second places simply have more cleaned provinces and it will take a lot of time to catch up them.
So in other words for top tournament players the game of winning tournament has changed from how much provinces I'm able to fight/catter to how much provinces I have cleared.

I could manage 56 weekly but much more beyond that on a sustainable basis on every tournament I dont think so. I cant sustain 70+ provincies each tournament, and I have seen people with more bears also being unable to sustain it.
Besides how many bears you have, another factor is how much pet food you can spend, and how many supplies you can muster in that timeframe.

I ended the bear event with 110 perfood and make every pet food I can attain.
Currently I am at 126, most of that gain is from the winter magic event that had petfood in it's prices.

I personally have 3 brown bears, this is plenty as there is only 1 other person with 3 bears and others only have 2, this gives me a slight advantage.
I think 4 bears might be sustainable for a long time, but with 5+ bears there comes a moment pretty quickly where your stack of petfood becomes empty

In this regard those evolution buildings might be a burden now, but can at the same time also be the solution to the problem.
If in the future we get more pets there will be a point in game where we have to make choices, Do we spend our pet food at building A, B, C, D, E or F?
Since each petfood can only be spend once.

The main reason I might become 1st 8x in a row atm is not just because of the bears, since most tournament players have 2 bears and because of that they aren't that far behind in production, but because I manage my recources better. I have a massive better goods production, My unit production is streamlined to maximum efficiency (had to revamp half my city for it) and I manage my time boosters.

Since other just play like they always did, this gives me a massive advantage over the others, literally massive, another helper is that we get way way way less boosters in the events now, as some top tournament players used those to empower themselves to top tournament places using those boosters.
There was always a result spike in the weeks after a big event.

My guild is also a massive factor, as the tournament result now also relies on teamwork between guildmates, you no longer can reach those the best results flying solo, you need your teammates these days to be a sustainable tournament champion battling for the first place.

 

[Deleted User - 81190]

My guild is also a massive factor, as the tournament result now also relies on teamwork between guildmates, you no longer can reach those the best results flying solo, you need your teammates these days to be a sustainable tournament champion battling for the first place.

Care to elaborate on this - why do you find your fellows to be critical? Is it NH for maximum culture bonus in supplies? Or turning over massive amounts of trades if you also cater? Or...?

 

[CrazyWizard]

Care to elaborate on this - why do you find your fellows to be critical? Is it NH for maximum culture bonus in supplies? Or turning over massive amounts of trades if you also cater? Or...?

I have given so many hints already here and there, If you don't know it yet, it will be a nice challenge to figure it out yourself. Once you figure it out send me a om and I might confirm it.

 

[Arthus]

There was an event on our servers to get most ranking points
Guy with sick ammount of bears got most points, his fellowship won, sick ammount of points (almost 300k per fellowship)
Now it's next tournament, everyone has whole army dead and he has most points again with 15k+ already
This is evident that brown bears destroyed whole game, they are not economy buildings and should be limited to 1-2 per event.

They are responding with "you didn't have any objections when you got 5 siren buildings until you saw that others got 12" which is a totally fail explanation to me, because Sirens have no effect on game and produce weak as hell ammount of goods and they are barely good only in big numbers.

They are trying to make it like "you are all jealous that we've got 24 bears, you should worship us that we cheated the system and now we will win every single tournament from now on and any other player has no chance".

Lack of response of game team for destroying the balance of the game with bears is mindblowing to me and i see why a lot of players left the game after winter fail - they punished all players for actions of the single units, instead of deleting excess bears of these system-cheaters.

More about it - they didn't even seen having 24 bears as a problem - our community manager himself spawned additional rewards to these players because they run out of prizes in event and had more points than there were prizes.

This looks like a hypocrisy to me - you spawn rewards that were not meant to be rewarded into players inventories and then you write a statement, that players cheated the system and got too many bears for free? They run out of prizes = event over - seems logical to me! And they spawned additional prizes twice - in sirens event and in autumn event!

 

[Yogi Dave]

My guild is also a massive factor, as the tournament result now also relies on teamwork between guildmates, you no longer can reach those the best results flying solo, you need your teammates these days to be a sustainable tournament champion battling for the first place.

Care to elaborate on this - why do you find your fellows to be critical? Is it NH for maximum culture bonus in supplies? Or turning over massive amounts of trades if you also cater? Or...?

There are two other ways I can think of a guildmate can help that @MinMax Gamer didn't mention: KP for AWs, but since @CrazyWizard has maxed all the military ones, that was a past help. The other and newest is the multi-player spire for producing time instants. Using them in conjunction with brown bears will increase troop production as long as supplies from various sources can keep up.

 

[CrazyWizard]

There was an event on our servers to get most ranking points
Guy with sick ammount of bears got most points, his fellowship won, sick ammount of points (almost 300k per fellowship)
Now it's next tournament, everyone has whole army dead and he has most points again with 15k+ already
This is evident that brown bears destroyed whole game, they are not economy buildings and should be limited to 1-2 per event.

They are responding with "you didn't have any objections when you got 5 siren buildings until you saw that others got 12" which is a totally fail explanation to me, because Sirens have no effect on game and produce weak as hell ammount of goods and they are barely good only in big numbers.

They are trying to make it like "you are all jealous that we've got 24 bears, you should worship us that we cheated the system and now we will win every single tournament from now on and any other player has no chance".

Lack of response of game team for destroying the balance of the game with bears is mindblowing to me and i see why a lot of players left the game after winter fail - they punished all players for actions of the single units, instead of deleting excess bears of these system-cheaters.

More about it - they didn't even seen having 24 bears as a problem - our community manager himself spawned additional rewards to these players because they run out of prizes in event and had more points than there were prizes.

This looks like a hypocrisy to me - you spawn rewards that were not meant to be rewarded into players inventories and then you write a statement, that players cheated the system and got too many bears for free? They run out of prizes = event over - seems logical to me! And they spawned additional prizes twice - in sirens event and in autumn event!

I'ts obvious that you feel grieved but it clouds your objectivity.

The game for many players ismuch bigger than the tournament, while I agree there is a balance issue, that balance issue was already there before we had the fire feniks, where chapter 4 accounts reigned supreme, then we got the fire feniks and we could combat those chapter 4 accounts but at the same time we had a new imbalance.

Think carefully, how is a player without a fire feniks competitive to one that has 1
How is a player without a single brown bear competing with onw that has 1

So it's pointless in complaining you failed to recognise the importance and/or were less willing to spend money/time/recources to aquire the same benefits.

Also they are totally right about using the phrase "The pot calling the kettle black" you never objected against multiple buildings when you where on that side, but you're raising objections now and call people doing exactly the same thing with another building "cheaters".

What does that make you?

Dont forget that some of those people might have spend hundreds of euro/dollars/whatevers to aquire those.
This is also the reason people het compensated afterwards when they run out of prizes, Innogames does not want to limit people spending money on the game. if they want to spend 10.000 euro in and event, they can. and they will het the prizes they deserve for that amount of money spend.
So your CM is not in the wrong for doing so.

Again the solution is simple and the opposith of your proposal, give us more pets. eventually it will balance out again because of the limited amound of pet food aviable.
You are calling they wrecked the game with 20!! bears, wel I got only 3 brown bears, (7 total during event) and I am managing the same scores.
Just look me up at elvenstats, this pretty much proves my point that beyond a certain point having more bears become pointless as you are limited by the amount of pet food you can aquire (without diamond spending)
Also why would they abandon the pets? there great money makers.

Small history lesson: the most popular diamond buildings in the past were: (names can vary a bit due to translations from dutch to english)
Oracle of the Elder Dragon
Giant Snail Palace
Marlo the Patron Saint (Big turtle)
Torrin God of Harvest (Giant frog)

Very popular event main prizes:
Kirit and Karat (set)
Owl set
The fenikses (all colors and sizes)
The Bears (all colors and sizes)

Just look at the variety of fenikses and bears you find in the average city, a lot lot lot of players build the panda bear because the loved how it looked.
There is more to consider here than they tournament fanatics, the game is bigger than that.

So pets are the future, there popular and they sell, why would they abandon it?
And abandoning it would also mean that those in power now will never ever get out of that seat since there is no way others can ever get close to the existing players. since if they can no longer aquire new pets they will never be able to attain similar power.

The pets need to stay so in the future these people can be rivaled with new buildings, I am therefore looking very much foreward to the next easter event. to see how they will proceed with these events.

 

[Arthus]

I'ts obvious that you feel grieved but it clouds your objectivity.

The game for many players ismuch bigger than the tournament, while I agree there is a balance issue, that balance issue was already there before we had the fire feniks, where chapter 4 accounts reigned supreme, then we got the fire feniks and we could combat those chapter 4 accounts but at the same time we had a new imbalance.

Think carefully, how is a player without a fire feniks competitive to one that has 1
How is a player without a single brown bear competing with onw that has 1

So it's pointless in complaining you failed to recognise the importance and/or were less willing to spend money/time/recources to aquire the same benefits.

Also they are totally right about using the phrase "The pot calling the kettle black" you never objected against multiple buildings when you where on that side, but you're raising objections now and call people doing exactly the same thing with another building "cheaters".

What does that make you?

Dont forget that some of those people might have spend hundreds of euro/dollars/whatevers to aquire those.
This is also the reason people het compensated afterwards when they run out of prizes, Innogames does not want to limit people spending money on the game. if they want to spend 10.000 euro in and event, they can. and they will het the prizes they deserve for that amount of money spend.
So your CM is not in the wrong for doing so.

Again the solution is simple and the opposith of your proposal, give us more pets. eventually it will balance out again because of the limited amound of pet food aviable.
You are calling they wrecked the game with 20!! bears, wel I got only 3 brown bears, (7 total during event) and I am managing the same scores.
Just look me up at elvenstats, this pretty much proves my point that beyond a certain point having more bears become pointless as you are limited by the amount of pet food you can aquire (without diamond spending)
Also why would they abandon the pets? there great money makers.

Small history lesson: the most popular diamond buildings in the past were: (names can vary a bit due to translations from dutch to english)
Oracle of the Elder Dragon
Giant Snail Palace
Marlo the Patron Saint (Big turtle)
Torrin God of Harvest (Giant frog)

Very popular event main prizes:
Kirit and Karat (set)
Owl set
The fenikses (all colors and sizes)
The Bears (all colors and sizes)

Just look at the variety of fenikses and bears you find in the average city, a lot lot lot of players build the panda bear because the loved how it looked.
There is more to consider here than they tournament fanatics, the game is bigger than that.

So pets are the future, there popular and they sell, why would they abandon it?
And abandoning it would also mean that those in power now will never ever get out of that seat since there is no way others can ever get close to the existing players. since if they can no longer aquire new pets they will never be able to attain similar power.

The pets need to stay so in the future these people can be rivaled with new buildings, I am therefore looking very much foreward to the next easter event. to see how they will proceed with these events.

Then soon we will have players with 50+ bears around. Matter of time. Active players are already punished for being in chapter 15, being in elves chapter you can get much more buildings and quests done because of more place for workshops, lesser level requirements etc.

I'm betting multiple fire phoenixes after spring event.

 

[Deleted User - 81190]

You are calling they wrecked the game with 20!! bears, wel I got only 3 brown bears, (7 total during event) and I am managing the same scores.
Just look me up at elvenstats, this pretty much proves my point that beyond a certain point having more bears become pointless as you are limited by the amount of pet food you can aquire (without diamond spending)

Quite frankly, I am not even sure how 3 bears can be fully utilized in a sustainable way. With the amount of pet food I am getting (and I basically do not miss refreshes and craft all PF I see) I can do 3x Fire Phoenix feeding and 1-2 Brown Bear feedings a week, and that would keep my PF stock flat over long periods of time. OK, with L30 Timewarp you can drop down to 2x Fire Phoenix feedings (but I don't think you can get down to 1x, or can you?), which means I can do up to 3x BB feedings per week. The last event brought quite a bit of PF as a one off, so we'll see if that would be a somewhat sustainable source. Apart from that, if I have to feed more BBs I'd have to drop diamonds on MA refreshes, and that may add up pretty quickly.

Having said that, hungry bears still produce heavy units for free, so 20 of these may add a good chunk of troops that won't need to be produced regularly. Though I don't know if that would be material enough for people clearing 60 provinces per tournament every week.