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Discussion Winter Magic

ExplorerFfff

Well-Known Member
It's great to win a magnifying glass where you see total waste, so you click elsewhere, win the shuffle, then click and you have the magnifying glass and the total waste there again. Click elsewhere to get the 2x VB spell. I am so happy about this event that I forgot to join the game for two days. :D
 

Betrinus

Well-Known Member
yes but the quest also shouldn't be too easy so that you can do 100 of them on 1 day. the challenge is to find quests that keep you busy for a bit and are also fun. If you have suggestions for such quests, we are still open to suggestions of those.
100 of them in 1 day? And how's that going to be even remotely possible, with quests such as Scout OR Research? 1 quest every 90 hours is more like it. And then perhaps you get the 25 VV one, get unlucky with the MA giving only low-yield VV crafts, and then you can get the Scout or Research quest again.
And I don't breally believe you're open to suggestions anymore, we've provided tons in both this and the previous event, you just keep repeating that whilst actually making things worse (such as removing the alterantive for VV from the Scout or Research quest, de facto annihilating all and any possibilities of going anywhere endgame players, and upping to an extremely high [25 from 15] VVs the one that requires it), acting in direct opposition to the feedback: we ask to nerf the hardest quests, and you make them harder (and as already said, in some cases downright impossible if an alternative isn't added). Instead, you nerfed the prizes, on top of having introduced a mechanism that everyone dislikes and makes it all the harder to get said prizes.
So to be redundant, as it's been said a vast amount of times already, the suggestions are simple: make quests easier (or even just doable), and un-nerf the prizes - especially seeing how it's going to be all the much harder to get them thanks to this loathsome casino system nobody likes, but since it's apparently bound to stay for this event, at least make an effort to make it worth our while.
Or you can completely disregard the feedback whilst pretending to keep asking for it and see how the sale of ribbons and participation both plummet this time, which will hopefully force you to face the fact that this new approach is a colossal mistake, and act accordingly by reverting to the previous system - perhaps taking away the possibility for players to win too many grand prizes, if that was actually what the team was concerned with. It'd be that easy.
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
And then perhaps you get the 25 VV one, get unlucky with the MA giving only low-yield VV crafts, and then you can get the Scout or Research quest again.
Well, at least this is impossible, since there is no VV quest in "endless" segment. But you still can get a bunch of Scout or Research every other quest in a row.
 

Betrinus

Well-Known Member
Well, at least this is impossible, since there is no VV quest in "endless" segment. But you still can get a bunch of Scout or Research every other quest in a row.
Which is why the endless segment will be absolutely useless unless an alternative is added, assuming anyone will be motivated enough to make it that far.

P.s. after the MA changes, good luck on getting the 15 VV quests done, too.

 

Kersepitje

QA Moderator
Elvenar Team
100 of them in 1 day? And how's that going to be even remotely possible, with quests such as Scout OR Research? 1 quest every 90 hours is more like it. And then perhaps you get the 25 VV one, get unlucky with the MA giving only low-yield VV crafts, and then you can get the Scout or Research quest again.
And I don't breally believe you're open to suggestions anymore, we've provided tons in both this and the previous event, you just keep repeating that whilst actually making things worse (such as removing the alterantive for VV from the Scout or Research quest, de facto annihilating all and any possibilities of going anywhere endgame players, and upping to an extremely high [25 from 15] VVs the one that requires it), acting in direct opposition to the feedback: we ask to nerf the hardest quests, and you make them harder (and as already said, in some cases downright impossible if an alternative isn't added). Instead, you nerfed the prizes, on top of having introduced a mechanism that everyone dislikes and makes it all the harder to get said prizes.
So to be redundant, as it's been said a vast amount of times already, the suggestions are simple: make quests easier (or even just doable), and un-nerf the prizes - especially seeing how it's going to be all the much harder to get them thanks to this loathsome casino system nobody likes, but since it's apparently bound to stay for this event, at least make an effort to make it worth our while.
Or you can completely disregard the feedback whilst pretending to keep asking for it and see how the sale of ribbons and participation both plummet this time, which will hopefully force you to face the fact that this new approach is a colossal mistake, and act accordingly by reverting to the previous system - perhaps taking away the possibility for players to win too many grand prizes, if that was actually what the team was concerned with. It'd be that easy.
there is no point in bringing up the same quests again when we are talking about valid replacements of those quests.

so i repeat myself:
quests also shouldn't be too easy so that you can do 100 of them on 1 day. the challenge is to find quests that keep you busy for a bit and are also fun. If you have suggestions for such quests, we are still open to suggestions of those.

the fact that we still have these hated quests, just proves that its not so easy to find those quests that fit the requirements. Making the quests easier is the worst suggestion of all, that just makes the events derail again and we're back in square one. Or we end up with an endless part that only gives you 1 ribbon a quest. We aren't asking for suggestions of easy quests, we are asking for suggestions of challenging quests that take up a bit of time and prevent you from doing 100 quest a day.

It shouldn't be about make it easy and give us everything we want. It should be a challenge so its interesting for almost everyone, and some might fail the challenge just by a bit, and those could then decide to go for it after all, if they are willing to spend some money. (last day promotions are meant for that).

Its also not so that we don't listen to suggestions, and that we intentionally want to make it as hard as possible. for example: previous events you could only use your boosted tier 1 for quests, now you can use all your factories. The first part of the event doesn't require productions in your high level factories/workshops anymore. these are some changes that make it easier again.
 

vance b

Member
so i repeat myself:
quests also shouldn't be too easy so that you can do 100 of them on 1 day. the challenge is to find quests that keep you busy for a bit and are also fun. If you have suggestions for such quests, we are still open to suggestions of those.

the fact that we still have these hated quests, just proves that its not so easy to find those quests that fit the requirements. Making the quests easier is the worst suggestion of all, that just makes the events derail again and we're back in square one. Or we end up with an endless part that only gives you 1 ribbon a quest. We aren't asking for suggestions of easy quests, we are asking for suggestions of challenging quests that take up a bit of time and prevent you from doing 100 quest a day.
Well Kersepitje, which kind of moderator are you? Instead of leading a constructive discussion with the community, you distort all our arguments with such an outrageous comment. Not nice to try to break all the efforts of the community with overstatements like this.


First point: No one did 100 quests a day. You would have reached about 30 bears with 100 quests/day. (I think you needed about 7000-7500 keys for a bear lvl 10)
Second point: In last event, we got more than 80 keys/quest. To offer 1 ribbon now for doable endless questline seems to be rude. You also need more ribbons/daily than in last event.
Third point: The reason why we could afford to do so many quests was due to the huge amount of time boosters we could win.
Fourth point: You call these scouting crap etc. "hated quests" yourself. In my eyes it is not your job to install something one purpose which everybody hates. Nobody pays voluntarily for things he hates. So it is dumb for you to do so. Unless you do not want to earn money, then you are on a good way.
Fifth point: The reasons why these hated quests are still in here is that you seem to be unable to make an easy calculation on how many ribbons are possible to get for a player with lets say 10 magic WS's and 12 marble manufacturies (some players may have a little more) by taking into account that we do not have endless timeboosts this time.


It could be so easy. Use the maths you learned at school. Try out how many quests u can do on one day and then count how many ribbons you can reach all over the event.
Divide this amount of ribbons through the number of ribbons you need in average for a grand prize (or for 20 GP's for a complete evolved building).
Divide this amount also through the amount of ribbons you need for daily in average.
If the result is too many prizes, reduce the ribbons/quest or vice versa.

If you are not interested in testing things like this before an event make sure if this job is really the job you want to do.

I am are really tired of your excuses and I guess other players are too.


Best regards

Vance
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
I still believe a permanent solution is an event island, Santa Island, Easter Island World Cup 2020 island ect.

This would be a small island with some (dynamic) obstacles. (so you can reuse it on every event creating a new island each time on the fly)
Within this space you have to build production facilities for that specific event.
Since in this case, you control space and production facilities it will be both endless en very easy to balance.

On that island you "produce" event currency in a chain of productions similar to a guest race.
This while the initial setup will take quite a bit of time and effort will make it a lot easier on the long run, especially on the balance perspective.

This will be much more fun, especially if those production can be short or long. and will create quite a bit of retention.
It will also be quite the puzzle to perfect your production on a island with obstacles with buildings and connecting roads. so it wont be a blank canvas on which rectangles can be easily smacked.

This would solve every issue with both the boring quests, and solve your balance issue.
 

Betrinus

Well-Known Member
there is no point in bringing up the same quests again when we are talking about valid replacements of those quests.

so i repeat myself:
quests also shouldn't be too easy so that you can do 100 of them on 1 day. the challenge is to find quests that keep you busy for a bit and are also fun. If you have suggestions for such quests, we are still open to suggestions of those.

the fact that we still have these hated quests, just proves that its not so easy to find those quests that fit the requirements. Making the quests easier is the worst suggestion of all, that just makes the events derail again and we're back in square one. Or we end up with an endless part that only gives you 1 ribbon a quest. We aren't asking for suggestions of easy quests, we are asking for suggestions of challenging quests that take up a bit of time and prevent you from doing 100 quest a day.

It shouldn't be about make it easy and give us everything we want. It should be a challenge so its interesting for almost everyone, and some might fail the challenge just by a bit, and those could then decide to go for it after all, if they are willing to spend some money. (last day promotions are meant for that).

Its also not so that we don't listen to suggestions, and that we intentionally want to make it as hard as possible. for example: previous events you could only use your boosted tier 1 for quests, now you can use all your factories. The first part of the event doesn't require productions in your high level factories/workshops anymore. these are some changes that make it easier again.
First of all nobody is saying one should be able to do 100 quests in 1 day. That's just being intellectually dishonest. Nobody managed to do that, not even when the quests were not random, so it'd be great to be spared inflammatory hyperboles.

Second, I didn't suggest to shower us with easy quests. I suggested to offer alternatives to make them doable for endgame players, i.e. Scout or Research isn't interesting nor doable for someone whose scouting times are 90h+, I see you conveniently avoided addressing this point.

The other suggestion was to rebalance some quests, such as the 25 VV ones, which rely too much on the MA's RNG (not to mention the problem with the scarcity of CCs).

The only suggestion I didn't give, and have already given in many an events' feedback threads, is to add flags to prevent the same boring quests to appear back to back. This has been done, but as @Karvest showed clearly this isn't enough and the flag should be extended.

The quests would be OK, in fact the list is already quite varied and it'd be objectively difficult to come up with extremely original new ideas; the problems are numbers and the fact that the non-repeat flag isn't enough. It's a matter of balance, not one of quest design. Again, nobody's asking to give us ridiculously easy quests. We're asking to be given quests that we'll be able to complete (do I need to repeat for a third of fourth time that an endgame player simply can not do anything when faced with a Scout of Research that offers no other alternative?), and that have an acceptable flag between them, or at the very least have their chances adjusted, because if this happens (evidently it bears repeating), then it's not interesting, it's not engaging, it's not fun, and above all it's not up to us to fix it.
 

iDavis

Well-Known Member
@CrazyWizard for such an event I hope already several years. Hopefully one day devs decide to take that idea into account and finally make some fun event (has been already suggested by several players (including me)).
 

Burger Meister Meister

Well-Known Member
there is no point in bringing up the same quests again when we are talking about valid replacements of those quests.

so i repeat myself:
quests also shouldn't be too easy so that you can do 100 of them on 1 day. the challenge is to find quests that keep you busy for a bit and are also fun. If you have suggestions for such quests, we are still open to suggestions of those.

the fact that we still have these hated quests, just proves that its not so easy to find those quests that fit the requirements. Making the quests easier is the worst suggestion of all, that just makes the events derail again and we're back in square one. Or we end up with an endless part that only gives you 1 ribbon a quest. We aren't asking for suggestions of easy quests, we are asking for suggestions of challenging quests that take up a bit of time and prevent you from doing 100 quest a day.

It shouldn't be about make it easy and give us everything we want. It should be a challenge so its interesting for almost everyone, and some might fail the challenge just by a bit, and those could then decide to go for it after all, if they are willing to spend some money. (last day promotions are meant for that).

Its also not so that we don't listen to suggestions, and that we intentionally want to make it as hard as possible. for example: previous events you could only use your boosted tier 1 for quests, now you can use all your factories. The first part of the event doesn't require productions in your high level factories/workshops anymore. these are some changes that make it easier again.
Hi @Kersepitje thank you for your response. A couple comments on your response.

quests also shouldn't be too easy so that you can do 100 of them on 1 day
That is a fair statement and I agree that players should not be able to complete 100 quests in a day but on the other extreme it shouldn't take 3 days to complete a single quest. I have a chapter 3 City in Beta. Based on your requirements, producing goods or supplies can take 2 to 3 days. For lower level Cities you need to recognize that they are still building up, space is limited and resources are limited. The numbers need to be balanced better. I don't know what it is like for higher level chapters as I don't have a City that high in Beta so can't speak to that.

the challenge is to find quests that keep you busy for a bit and are also fun
Yes this is a challenge. While 100 quests a day may be too much, the "average"players should be able to complete 5-10 quests a day. What you have provided is simply impossible. Even if the quest was interesting, making it take more than a day to complete is just NOT FUN. For upper level Cities scouting a province can take 40+ hours to complete. Sure throw one or two of these into the mix but we shouldn't be seeing almost every other or every third quest to be a "scout a province". This quest is just way too frequent. You need to figure out how to truly randomize the quests better. In your internal calculations you can add a weighted value to each quest. If the quest has just been completed set a weighted value so that the odds of it occurring again for the next 10-15 tasks is almost impossible. Harder tasks can be weighted heavier so they don't appear as often.

the fact that we still have these hated quests, just proves that its not so easy to find those quests that fit the requirements
Agreed. Since it is probably too late to make any further changes before we go to Beta lets focus on the next event. Open up a new "event task list" thread under suggestions and we, the players, will provide you with some ideas. Let us know if there are any guidelines or objective that you are trying to accomplish and we will see if we can fit your requirements.

Making the quests easier is the worst suggestion of all, that just makes the events derail again and we're back in square one.
This point I am still unclear on. There has been some speculation by players but I have not read a suitable response from the Elvenar Team (I may have missed it if there was one with so many messages).

How exactly is the event derailed if the quests are too easy. What exactly is the problem that you are trying to fix. If its "100 quests in a day" what exactly is wrong with that? There was some mention about 15 max'd out bears but that is a simple fix by not giving the second set of 3 bears away for free. Each set of Bears would cost an increasing amount of diamonds like you do with expansion slots.

If I could complete 100 tasks in a day I would actually think that is fun (well maybe not 100 and not every day). For me it would be a challenge to see how many, how fast I could complete.

I liked the previous system where you provided a predetermined task list and no building level requirements. I could actually use my brain and strategy to plan ahead to complete tasks. This is supposed to be a "strategy" game. I would need to optimize my vacant space and create a strategy to plan out the best use of my resources given the limited space. The recent changes are just a crap shoot, no strategy, just luck of the draw. To tell you the truth, the lack of strategy is the part that is not fun.

It should be a challenge so its interesting for almost everyone
Part of making it interesting is being able to create a strategy to solve the event. Totally random quests and random prizes have little to no interest for me or by the sounds of it, most other players as well.

High level building requirements do add a challenge but it requires the player to conform to the ideals of the devs which most players don't really want to do. They prefer the freedom of choice. I updated my buildings for the previous event but it totally screwed my game style. Now I am out of population that I would have preferred to use elsewhere. My game style had to be altered just to be able to participate in an event. I don't like doing this.

If you truly want to make this an interesting and fun event then bring back or introduce some degree of strategy. "Random" is not challenging. "Random" is frustrating. "Challenging" is the ability to use my brain and develop and implement a strategy.

and some might fail the challenge just by a bit
You are miles off the mark with this comment. Not only will I fail the challenge but it won't be by only a bit. There is no way that I will be able to evolve the building to any useful level. I don't think that I am alone in this.

One more comment. You want the event to be fun. I want the event to be fun. But one of my goals for the event is to be able to collect a sufficient supply of time boosts, AW KP, daily prizes, etc to last me until the next event.

I have a specific "shopping list" of items that I want. You filled the prize board with garbage. You don't give me any choice (versus the 3 chest system) of the prize that I want and make it near impossible to win more than 1 or 2 of the daily prizes.

One of my most coveted daily prizes from a previous event is "The Great Auction". I managed to save up and spent everything on this daily prize. I managed to win 6 of them and I now have a field of high culture Great Auction buildings. This is strategy. This is fun. This works towards my game style and future playing.

Sorry for the rambling but I wanted to be open with you.
 

cestbienmoi

Well-Known Member
In the past, you can have the same quest in loop, now it is less 50% boring, but they suppress the alternative, thus more 100% boring, they reduce the reward by 400% (a better alternative should to increase the cost after 9 artefacts), ... the grand prize is not grand, it is a christmare event ^^

Add an alternative for blocking quest (and analyse the problem for beginner/medium/end player), maximum time to do a quest should be 1 day. There is too a very old alternative demand, possibility to decline some quest with some limitation (but this need dev, the first solution not).

Use 4-6 group of quest, and we know it is technical possible, because you do it for mermaid event.
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
@palmira Fortunately I don't have to bother with such quests, I'm currently stuck with this:
1574972342681.png


And nothing usefull in my MA, so I'll wait until tomorrow (Yes, that's the biggest fun of this event - WAIT).
I don't even know why all of you bother with the 20 quests, if I hit them (I probably won't get there with my beta city), I'll probably stop - no point to continue then.
 

Dony

King of Bugs
Lets not pretend that ppl didnt do 100 quests per day, i did many 100 quests per day during tournaments last event and ppl with many bears did that aswell, thats the reason its a problem
i like quests in this event up until endless part where i have stopped on first quest
i think it would be better if quests were getting harder and harder (like its done between segments now) and continue that way in endless segments
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
well, I'm not spending a single instant on them, but as far as they are done by themselves - why not.
 

Betrinus

Well-Known Member
Lets not pretend that ppl didnt do 100 quests per day, i did many 100 quests per day during tournaments last event and ppl with many bears did that aswell, thats the reason its a problem
i like quests in this event up until endless part where i have stopped on first quest
i think it would be better if quests were getting harder and harder (like its done between segments now) and continue that way in endless segments
100 quests per day? I have 6 stage 10 bears in my main city and could pop more, as well as a minimum of two placed or in the inventory in my WW farms, and I most certainly did not do 100 quests per day. Not even close to a quarter of that and that's being generous. And that wasn't accomplished by doing a hundred of quests per day, it was accomplished by picking chests wisely by having a modicum of control over what we picked, and the fact that it took an average of 23,5 points as opposed to the upcoming 50 without any modicum of control over what we pick, with everything left to a ludicrous slot-machine system.
Now, I'm not arguing that the number of stuff one could win in the previous two events wasn't excessive, mind you - and fixing that is as simple as making evolving buildings not reappear after all of them have been collected. But what is certain is it did not take a hundred of quests per day to do so.