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Discussion Winter Magic

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Marindor, Nov 19, 2018.

  1. Heymrdiedier

    Heymrdiedier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2016
    in my opinion you are comparing apples with pears here tho.
    A player with all magis buildings all wonders etc, is playing for rank usually. They dont want a set that gives them loads of goods but no points :)
    A player who wants to play efficiently, those will want the set badly, but they usually arent that interested that much in ranking.
     
  2. edeba

    edeba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    You do not factor in things like NH, the use of spells, and do calculations in the range of the worst outcomes, which ends up grossly over stating the culture and workshop costs.

     
  3. Turbina

    Turbina Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2018
    I would argue with Soggy about whether the daily set is the best ever in terms of goods production; I think the harvest sets were slightly better because full set bonusses gave them 6 (T2/T3 set) or 7 (T1 set) times the "normal" production, compared with "only" 4 times production on the current daily set.

    But I have to agree that these sets are WAAAAAY above everything else I have. What makes the new set unique is its ability to generate tons of mana. Two christmas trees (they need two other set buildings for the bonusses, but those are great anyway) are worth about 24 libraries or 10 fountains in Amuni chapter, at a fraction of the space, so with the promised upcoming possibility to upgrade the event buildings, all your mana needs will probably be satisfied for the rest of your Elvenar career, freeing your spells to be disenchanted instead of consumed by the Dragon Abbey.
     
    SoggyShorts likes this.
  4. Dony

    Dony King of Bugs

    Joined:
    May 5, 2016
    It would be really nice if future sets would give something for fighters aswell, since now only negotiators profits.

    Lets say we have set of 4 buildings where 2 pieces will be core (cul+pop), 2 pieces goods only and 2 pieces for units only (based on researched SS, especially units from TG and MC).
    Fighters can go for 2 core pieces + 2 unit pieces, while negotiators can go for 2 core pieces and 2 goods pieces.
    Both camps can collect all 6 pieces if they want, where max link bonus will be 3 (similar to market set).
    This mechanic is already in the game, so nothing new to implement, only 1-2 extra buildings to design.

    This can be done with more buildings aswell (3+2+2=7 total/5 specialized, 2+3+3= 8 total/5 specialized)
     
    SoggyShorts, shadowblack and Angedev like this.
  5. Karvest

    Karvest Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Also pop/culture event buildings are not counted, which give way more per cell than regular residences and culture buildings, lowering space requirements even more (good hybrid is more then 2x times more efficient than regular building).
    But even with this sets are better.:cool:
     
    Angeduciel and SoggyShorts like this.
  6. edeba

    edeba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    I completely agree the sets are better, but the degree to which they are being promoted better is an exaggeration to what actually happens in game play, and there are many variables that you can choose to make the results look better, or worse.

     
  7. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    Proof:
    all magic2.png
    That city is 270 squares
    It gets 1,000,000,000 supplies and culture from heaven, and the buildings don't need any roads.
    It takes up 268 squares.
    It makes the same as my set in 82 squares.

    With a level 30 mountain halls it makes 32.5% more goods (the MtHall takes up zero squares just for fun)
    268 squares/1.325=202 squares
    With a level 30 ETC the MM spell gives+100% (the ETC takes up zero squares too, because why not?)
    202/2 = 101

    101 vs 82 ---> the set still wins!
    So even in the above total cheating god-players scenario with impossible buildings still the set is 20% better.


    Then I also showed a real-world proven example of my beta city where my overall goods production has increased
    T1 from 72,648 to 99,848 a 37% increase
    T2 from 70,694 to 103,494 a 46% increase
    T3 from 60,864 to 163,164 a 168% increase
    This is a fact, not an exaggeration.

    If the sets are good in god-mode, they are awesome for the average player. That is not an exaggeration, it's logic.
     
    maeter75 and Angeduciel like this.
  8. ThunderingJeff

    ThunderingJeff Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2017
    Welp, I think Soggy has completely beaten all counter-arguments into submission using his Logic Beams and Mathematical Cannons. Now I'm REALLY going for the Dailies. Which ones should I strive to get multiple of?
     
    maeter75 likes this.
  9. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    If you want to avoid cross-tier trading the easiest might be to go balanced, but if you have room for whatever, then since T3 is worth more than T1&T2 the sleds make more sense.
    In a mana chapter I would say 2 frost trees as part of the set is a no-brainer.
     
  10. lehayes

    lehayes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2018
    Gee 5 sets of tier 1:marble::steel::plank:, and double my 6 main workshops:supply: along with my nooks and crannies to drop a few Workshops:supply: and boosteds:plank:, now I'm finished with the Winter Path with 14 days to spare. Looks like I need more open space.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
    SoggyShorts likes this.
  11. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    I'm just barely going to finish the event on live today.:)
    Being between chapters for an event is like cheating lol
     
    Lisha and Sirsmithy like this.
  12. Heymrdiedier

    Heymrdiedier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2016
    Personally i disagree on this.
    while T3 is more valuable, it also takes a lot less city space to produce then the other tiers. (Hence the reason we say the 1/4/16 ratio isnt fair)
    I used to have a lot of trouble keeping my T1 in balance, and it felt like it was impossible to do without cross trading.
    Since i have the set of last event tho, im swarming in T1 and i wont even consider doing corsstrades anymore, except maybe in the other direction (T1 -> T2/3) you know the one thats never on the market :)
    I had 10 marble manufactories at max lvl before, im thinking of droppping that down to 8 now once i got a fair reserve.
    Now Tier 2 seems to be falling behind tho, so id love a set that gives me much T2 (and especially books, everyone always seem to be short on books). I got 10 max lvl silk manufactories and im doing a bit more then break even. and i realise the future chapters will only become more expensive and they wont get an upgrade in the next 2 chapters.
    Now extra T3 is ofcourse also nice, but in the next chapter (in a month or 2 i hope) will boost my T3 production anyway with new factories, so im not worrying about that at all at the moment.
     
  13. ThunderingJeff

    ThunderingJeff Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2017
    Yeah, T3 will definitely be the smartest for me... Especially when you take my city into account. I have 11 Silk Manufactories and NOTHING else in the way of Manufactoring, unless you count the buildings I got from the last event. (There's a silk crisis in Elcysandir, I'm alleviating that in my Fellowship) Using the population from this event, I'll probably build a T3 to ease trading for my Fellowship, but getting more T3s in the way of event buildings will certainly help. (The Frost Tree would be nice, but I don't think I can find room for TWO of those...)
     
  14. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    How do you figure that?
    T3 buildings take up the most space, not less.
    If you can replace a marble with a Fair, you save far less space than replacing a gem with a sled.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  15. Heymrdiedier

    Heymrdiedier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2016
    ooh maybe i was thinking wrong :) and its too late now to start thinking right, ill rethink tomorrow when im fully sober again :p
     
    SoggyShorts likes this.
  16. lehayes

    lehayes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2018
    These might help: Elven Culture & Wonders (fixed) and Human Culture & Wonders, Tables.
    If you know CSS, delete the white background on the internal style sheet. You'll see I'm on level-4

    You're both wrong.
    They're both 4x6 in the end and 5x* before they get there, only Tier 1 is 4x5.
    Too save space, I think 2 T3 should certainly do it; -176 +48 = -118 or 118 freed up squares if running 4 each, changing to 6 T3 only.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018 at 07:24
  17. Loki Blue

    Loki Blue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2017
    First Seasonal Event I've ever not enjoyed. In fact, it's one of the few events I've not liked. :( There's a couple of buildings I would like to have gone for, but I don't need another damn fairy dust producer. I'm sick of it, really...I'm in the six digits and I can't use the stuff fast enough, and I can't trade it away because no one wants it. I'd love to have the second grand prize, and I could get it if I applied myself, but of course it's a fairy dust producer, so I'm done, I think.
     
    silvia likes this.
  18. Karvest

    Karvest Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Just progress further through chapters, and you will get more various producers. (GP2 is mana building at later chapters). Current event is giving the whole rainbow of building types: some pure culture (like frozen father tree), some descent culture/pop (like winter star and frozen shipwreck), some mana and seeds (not sure why seeds buildings are even a thing, they give such a small amount of seeds per tile that can be safely ignored), descent set that can give you both a lot of goods and a lot of mana (way more than any other mana building), trading outposts for those who want to save some time on gathering GR resources and a wishing well for those who need more diamonds. The only sad thing is amount of RNG that can ruin all your efforts to get desired buildings.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018 at 01:33
  19. Loki Blue

    Loki Blue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2017
    Yes, I know, but it sure doesn't help me now. I'm in O&G, so there's nothing that's going to do me any good. Not at this point, anyway.
     
  20. Karvest

    Karvest Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    O&G is the most bad chapter for events...
     
    Loki Blue likes this.

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