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Discussion Version 1.23 + Sorcerers & Dragons

Marindor

Community Manager
Elvenar Team
Takes a big man / woman to admit mistakes, thank you for that.

Is it possible to have the actial feedback to Devs posted, so any mistakes would be seen quickly? Or would that just open a HUGE bucket of worms?
Feedback is forwarded all the time in different ways so I don't want to make that promise, for I know it won't be realistic. It is our intention however to post it the way we did now more often, including the answers to your questions/concerns. It's important to us to improve communication between the game team and players, but time is always an issue and we feel this is a good way (and realistic for us to fit into our schedules). Based on your feedback so far, it's appreciated by you as well so we're very happy about that and want to continue this :)
 

DeletedUser762

Guest
i just want to say I absolutely hate tournaments, very boring, time consuming. I was very happy with my fight in provinces, and mb occasionally tournaments. Just letting you know now, I don't even see the point of training my army, all your upgrades on army barracks are unless. I don't even train units anyway, what is the point of training the units? can you tell me? just so I can kill them with no win? I have so much tools now, cause I am not using them on training units any more at all. I train units sometimes, just for fun.
 

Jouchka

Well-Known Member
i just want to say I absolutely hate tournaments, very boring, time consuming. I was very happy with my fight in provinces, and mb occasionally tournaments. Just letting you know now, I don't even see the point of training my army, all your upgrades on army barracks are unless. I don't even train units anyway, what is the point of training the units? can you tell me? just so I can kill them with no win? I have so much tools now, cause I am not using them on training units any more at all. I train units sometimes, just for fun.
Just saw that the campus will increase its size at each level... level 2 is already 8x8.... So level 4 will be 10x10???? So you are right... at the end we will not have the place anymore to put our fighting barracks... we will have to rip armories and barracks, and probably only fight with the same troops we had in the first levels... So instead of improving this game is just going to the direction of annoying.... You can easily say... we want you to oranize your city differently and make this challenge. If you have to rip half of your city in a city builder game to build it up later on, then I think that I'm really missing the clue of this game...
 

Lissona

Well-Known Member
Jouchka, I think we have a nearly identical city (wonders, event buildings, space etc.) - there is no need to tear down a lot of stuff. Just optimize your city and think in advance - what happens, when you reach the not so far away upgrade for the houses?

In the beginning, for me the Dragons had the look of a true horror story, but in the end they aren't much more challenging than the guest races before.
 

ophion

Well-Known Member
For a city building game to achieve that status there has to be room to make it individual and interesting. What is the point of a city building game when players have to demolish all their well worked out and planned city just to accommodate huge buildings that will only be around for a few months? I like the look of the new Sorcerers and Dragons Guest race and like the fact that it is built around a campus instead of the normal roads etc. This contains it better than having it strewn throughout the city. However...does it have to be so huge? The campus starts out at 7 x 7 and so we work hard to make the space to build it...only to find it goes up to 8 x 8 on the 2nd upgrade.
Such a huge disruption to our well loved cities makes us miserable instead of excited whenever a new Guest race is introduced as we know we are going to have to lose so many of our favourite buildings just to make enough space to play the game...and with the lack of expansions which has become a really huge issue lately...it's not the fun it should be but more a chore to have to conform to building ugly cities just to continue to progress.
Can't there be a compromise to the building size we are allotted to the size of the new buildings we have to build in such a small amount of space?
We like a challenge...but would still like to end up with a reasonably attractive city...after all...that's why we came here in the first place.
The artistic designs of the buildings are fantastic and I applaud the art dept for their incredible work....but what is the point if you have to cram everything together so tight that it just looks like a mess and everything just merges into a blur? All those beautiful designs are lost and wasted because of lack of space to display them to make a good looking city. I find it a shame that we are forced to build rows and rows of stuff instead of being able to place them where they would look good...and that's why I say...this isn't really a city building game...it's just another clone of all the other games out there where battles and ranking points mean more than making something beautiful.
 
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Jouchka

Well-Known Member
IMO it's impossible to cope with it just by shuffling. INNO indicated that the campus need to be so big to allow the number of faculties, So you'll need 10x10 surrounded by these big faculties. So don't try to convince me that you can just handle it by shuffling around.
Indeed housing upgrades are important so I can ensure I have enough population to upgrade my workshops. Once that is done there's nothing else that really requires population anymore. SO then you can tear down your houses to make space... Unfortunately for the research of the houses the campus already requires to be at level 2...
 
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Treanty

Member
Happening in my fellowship too. At least 4 of my 11 members (counting myself) have all had stream errors every time we try to donate to a specific player in our fellowship.
IMO it's impossible to cope with it just by shuffling. INNO indicated that the campus need to be so big to allow the number of faculties, So you'll need 10x10 surrounded by these big faculties. So don't try to convince me that you can just handle it by shuffling around.
Indeed housing upgrades are important so I can ensure I have enough population to upgrade my workshops. Once that is done there's nothing else that really requires population anymore. SO then you can tear down your houses to make space... Unfortunately for the research of teh houses teh campus already requires to be at level 2...
This is easy, you are supposed to buy Diamonds and then purchase you new homes. But dont demolish any previously purchased Diamond purchases because INNO will never give refunds. Old Pre-purchased premium structures often have to be demolished to make the way for newly developed and thus more expensive premium/diamond buildings. The buildings are getting bigger as a plan for you to upgrade to premium buildings, Obvious ploy for you to spend money so Inno makes you life hell without premium. They did say more Magic is coming and if we are to effectively manage our cities BANG....Magic Residences are available for a price of course. If we had ample space then Inno would not make money so over time they increase the buildings, resize them etc to make more money. Each update effectively destroys our previous creation no matter how much you like it and all your carefully developed planning.

So by increasing the new races buildings they reap an additional benefits with a wave of new purchases. New culture and newer Requirements, which require you to Buy more...:)

I was disappointed no refund was available when I had to demolish my first round of purchases. I build the newer second round at a considerable increase in costs and now facing to destroy those for more efficient ones and still no refunds. And thus the cycle continues...

Of course Inno is not forcing anyone to buy anything. BUT play-ability is drastically reduced.

I know one thing, if Inno had been more reasonable in it's pricing structure both for expansions and new buildings I would have purchased much more than I already have. But Inno has priced themselves out of my reach because at the level they are charging makes borrowing from the mafia more reasonable than trading with the new WHOLESALE TRADER. Key word....Wholesale means wholesale not charge extortion pricing.:)....I am waiting for Inno to send around some traders to break my kneecaps when or if I wish to trade again.....lmao

Make the product reasonable and sell allot more to a bigger customer base. Make the product easier to use, fun, exciting and time rewarding. The treasure prize is now exceedingly boring having to look all over a city for it. Why not make one place to visit a treasure palace in each city?, a no brainer.

Maybe one day Inno will realize they have scared off a huge number of their customers and very soon it will scare me off from pure boredom. The game loads slowly and everything seems to get bogged down. Maybe in a few years or not.

EDIT......Dont get me wrong, I seriously love Elvenar. I like the development team seem like great guys. Talented and hard working individuals I am sure. Innogames is a company that need revenue but in my very humble opinion, they can do better. I know for a fact a slight adjustment of it's pricing policy to encourage more purchases will work if handled correctly. At the moment all your current pricing structure is doing is alienating your existing customers and causing many more to quit because of the HUGE costs involved. Be reasonable, make the game interesting for all manner and types of players.

Elvenar says it allows for different game playing styles....I disagree because over time you are forcing players to play your way. Classic example forcing players to join fellowships and removing the Tournaments if you don't as a penalty. What about the players who do not wish to fight, you have made the game economically not viable to continue beyond a certain point because of the cost. Thus it's cause and effect is to alienate even more people who give up.
 
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benroq

Well-Known Member
i just want to say I absolutely hate tournaments, very boring, time consuming. I was very happy with my fight in provinces, and mb occasionally tournaments. Just letting you know now, I don't even see the point of training my army, all your upgrades on army barracks are unless. I don't even train units anyway, what is the point of training the units? can you tell me? just so I can kill them with no win? I have so much tools now, cause I am not using them on training units any more at all. I train units sometimes, just for fun.
Keep hope mistique, more you go to move forward in the game more you can again fight on provinces because the strengths of our combat troops increase much more fast than the strengths of our enemies on provinces because one can do only one and a half ring by new era.
I am for the era of woodelves with 355 conquered provinces and I begin again being able to fight (And win with a few losses) on one or 2 fights by province while the era of orcs has it was impossible.
Thus I think that the era of dragons (and more still to the following one) has it will again be possible to make many fights on the card of provinces.;)
 

Mink

Well-Known Member
Apologies for not having time to read the thread, but: It's quite asinine to have the woodelves protesting against our building the campus when we have to build it to progress in the game. Can't the woodelves move out happily, grateful for our assistance, so that our progress can be enjoyed as progress instead of guilt-tripping us?
 

DeletedUser762

Guest
I agree with all said. Even I, who doesn't stretch the limits with the buildings, i.e extra goods manufacturies etc, am running out of space. And all because we cannot get more expansions due to not able to fight the provinces. I think now they only want diamonds. But it was a feature of the game, u fight provinces u get expansions, unlike fore example FOE, where u r limited of what u get, when u finish the territory. Now they have basically removed this feature. thanks a lot!
 

Dony

King of Bugs
just in case this was missed i am posting it again (different map) level 4 (3 star) for elf, pass that to devs, units are level3 apart from steinling, manual fighting
 

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Mykan

Well-Known Member
Can't the woodelves move out happily, grateful for our assistance, so that our progress can be enjoyed as progress instead of guilt-tripping us?
Unlike other races didn't the wood elves come here to help/teach us? not the other way around?
 

galoyal

Well-Known Member
Something to consider if the dev. want to tweak the AI more. It is possible, when you fight manually, to abuse the fact that now, when enemies are out of reach, they move so to stay as far as possible of the unit they wish to attack. Let me explain. This tournament, enemy knights will move up to 4 hex away from my mage, so they are as far as possible, while being able to close in next round. You can easily abuse this by moving a step back and still attack (at least with priest or blossom mages). So the next round, the knight will move only one square, to be again "as far as possible but within reach for next round)

Basically with this AI a knight will never ever close the distance between him and a mage because he will move only one hex each round. Staying as far as possible make sense for an archer or a mage, but in the case of melee or slow units, it becomes a flaw you can easily abuse.
 

Gandolfus

Well-Known Member
That's not abuse, it's good strategy :) To paraphrase Tsun Tsu: "Know your enemy and use his weaknesses against him".
 

Treanty

Member
Uh-huh :( This game is getting kinda heavy going, I had to change browser just to be able to see that city, IE just couldn't cope.
IE is useless playing most of Inno-games, and now firefox is getting bogged down. And the developers needs help from the outside because they broke the game...I say they ruined it a very long time ago.
 

galoyal

Well-Known Member
you forget that Galoyal likes chess, and wants the AI to behave like Gary Kasparov.

YOU SHALL NOT WIN!!!
You can see it that way. Perhaps you'll understand my point of view when you try auto battle and YOUR heavy melee stubbornly stay out of reach of the enemy and get destroyed ;)