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Discussion Version 1.23 + Sorcerers & Dragons

Marindor

Well-Known Member
@Marindor
While you're here I have a question: An news about nerfing the Mist Walkers and making them less overpowered (or not overpowered at all)?

No, at this moment there's no news on intentions to change these stats. There hasn't been much feedback on these particular units either, apart from your post in the Battle Feedback thread. If you think they really form a big problem, I'd like to suggest you to start a seperate thread about these units in our Battle section, so we can specifically check the opinion of other players about these units as well. Should it turn out that a lot of players think these units should be changed, we can forward it again (preferably with specific scenarios/examples) but we'll have to have more spirit for that than "just" 1-2 players.
 

DeletedUser1882

Guest
if history is a reference, then you only need the lvl 4 campus for the wonder tech.
So you could as well collect resources with a smaller campus and just upgrade the last lvl just before wonder tech while you trash some factories allready.

There's another thing though too - the statement was that we would **need** (whatever that means) a 10x10 campus to fit all the buildings. That means we will **need** to have 4 of each faculty.

Goods production doesn't really have any requirements, beyond that you build 1 of each faculty. For comparison, you could have gotten through Wood Elves (very slowly) with only 1 of each grafting site, and 1 forest fabrication.

Goods storage does have a requirement. You needed a L4 portal to hold the goods for Dwarf, Fairy, Orc, and Wood Elves wonder techs. So I expect that Goods storage will require a L4 campus. This requirement could be minimized as described above, or ignored with the use of diamonds.

But the questline also imposes a requirement on buildings. Someone mentioned above that 4/4/4/3 worked well for them in wood elves. However, the questline imposed the requirement that you have 6 steel, 6 marble, and 4 planks grafting sites - all at the same time. The questline also forced you to have 4 forest fabrications, though not at the same time as all those grafting sites. You cannot make it through the wood elves chapter (in the sense that I try to get through each chapter) without building to at least 6/6/4 grafting sites.

Also, if the campus was smaller, it wouldn’t provide enough space to place the faculties around that.

What follows is predicated on taking Muf-Muf at his word - having the L4 campus be 9x9 would have made the chapter, as built, impossible.

Muf-Muf's statement entails that we require 4 of each faculty (otherwise the 10x10 size would not be required as he stated). But the only way that we would ever *require* a certain number of each faculty is the questline requirement.

So from Muf-Muf's statement, we will have to have 4 of each faculty to progress the questline. While technically, we could just ignore the questline until some bug moves us past it (as happened with a recent bug), those who want to move through the plot are going to have to install 4 of each faculty.

Personally, I'd think that the guest race chapters would be more fun if we were allowed more choice in how large we wanted the guest race establishment to be, while still allowing players to follow the plot. In the case of the wood elves, that would have meant not placing a plot requirement for 6 marble/6 steel/4 planks grafting simultaneously. In the case of the Sorcerors and Dragons, that would mean not requiring 4 of every faculty together. I love the look of the faculties, I'm looking forward to having them, especially the more Lovecraftian appearing levels. But I find 372 squares of sorcerers and dragons to be a little ridiculous, especially when this unprecedented size is tied to the demands of not having a settlement road, but having to connect everything to the campus directly.

For comparison, even if you kept all the required production buildings, that leads to a settlement size of 218 (36 x3 for grafting sites + 64 for forest fabs + 20 for the glade + 26 allotted for forest trail) for the wood elves. In addition to the rigid geometric constraints, the sorcerers and dragons settlement is more than 170% of the size of the prior one. For laughs, at this rate of growth, we can expect the next guest race to take up 634 tiles. :p
 
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DeletedUser1657

Guest
You have to wonder if we dissect marindor's and Muf-Muf's word a little too much. We spend hours and pages debating every little nuance yet I am sure they spend much less time writing the comment. They must take care to be mindful of what is said but language is so complex that it can be distorted beyond recognition of the original intent.
 

Dhurrin

Well-Known Member
Perhaps so @Mykan , but the lack of roads in the new chapter definitely constricts one to needing a hug block of space, without a possibility to place the buildings in a more practical way.
And one does need to have the 10x10 campus to get to the wonders anyway.
I've been fiddling around a bit on the elvenarchitect and expect I'll need 21x20, or 420 squares in a pretty massive block for this one, whereas the previous chapters I could pretty much use the whole bottom part of my town by spreading them out and connecting them, which kept me from having to grossly distort the rest of the town.

True, for optimum space-usage I could organise my town a bit differently, but I want all factories & all workshops & the barracks close together. This because I used to log on from my phone to reset everything and scrolling was hard on that small screen.
Of course, that need is growing less urgent with the fun getting out of the game, so the need to log in often is no longer there.
 

Jackluyt

Well-Known Member
What Pooh had to say about the new Guest Race!

16998721_10208494165572286_4753525253843583768_n.jpg


Pooh is the Mascot of the Elvenar Platinum Leaf Facebook group.
You are welcome to visit and share our large collection of Notes, Files, Tips and Videos!
 

DeletedUser1882

Guest
You have to wonder if we dissect marindor's and Muf-Muf's word a little too much. We spend hours and pages debating every little nuance yet I am sure they spend much less time writing the comment. They must take care to be mindful of what is said but language is so complex that it can be distorted beyond recognition of the original intent.

I do try to be sure of the caveat that we would need to be able to take their words literally, but it's all we have to go on. I am an originalist as I read things, so authorial intent is high on my list of hermeneutical concerns. That said, given the context of Muf-Muf's comment (responding to the criticism that the buildings are too big in this chapter), I find it very hard to construe it as anything other than a defense of the 10x10 size of the campus (the sentence starts, "if the campus was smaller..."). Likewise, the idea that a 9x9 L4 campus would do just fine seems to be excluded because this would be a 19% reduction in size - exactly the sort of thing that was being requested by those to whom Muf-Muf is responding, and whose request is presently being rejected.
 

Dhurrin

Well-Known Member
An additional problem is that the 9x9 campus is lvl 3. Meaning one not only can place fewer buildings alongside it, they also produce less since the portal bonus depends on the lvl of the portal.
So yes, it would probably be possible until the last research topic, but the player would be slowed down even more because he had fewer buildings that also produced at a rather lower level.
 

DeletedUser1526

Guest
Can someone who is in S&D chapter be so kind to tell me how much population last level house has? And how much pop we need for workshop and tier II manufactory upgrade?

Thank you very much.

Since wiki is outdated I need to ask here.
 

DeletedUser1882

Guest
Also, we have this in Muf-Muf's 1st answer: "if the campus was smaller, it wouldn’t provide enough space to place the faculties around that. " Most people have skipped this piece of information.

This means that 4 of each faculty will be required. A 9x9 campus would be capable of supporting 3 of each faculty (maybe even 4 of some, I haven't played with it much). Per Muf-Muf, 10x10 was the smallest they could make the campus - which means that more than 3 of each is required.

I just wanted to spike the football. Got the quest for 4 of each today. Turns out, I understood exactly what Muf-Muf told us.
 

Heymrdiedier

Well-Known Member
I just wanted to spike the football. Got the quest for 4 of each today. Turns out, I understood exactly what Muf-Muf told us.
i dont know a 10x10 is 100 squares, a 1x15 could have fitted just as much buildings (or even more?) and only takes a fraction of the squares :)
 

DeletedUser1095

Guest
... Got the quest for 4 of each ["academy" building] today. Turns out, I understood exactly what Muf-Muf told us.

That was an optional quest, though. I dismissed it. I'm doing fine with 3+3+4 of the "academy" buildings, and if it's slowing me down some that's okay. I don't mind taking longer with this chapter because I like the look of most of the buildings very much. Not only the "academy" buildings - the new Main Halls and workshops look mighty fine. Well done, artists!

And now that that horrid deformed smirky thing is gone from the log-in page, my eyes feel much much more satisfied. Thank you.

PS: The new training grounds are graceful and funny - well done again, artists!
 
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DeletedUser1232

Guest
I have to ask: building the Maze of tha dark matter, so large, is there the risk it may become useless in a new phase of the game? Maybe Mana no longer needed?
 

Dony

King of Bugs
I have to ask: building the Maze of tha dark matter, so large, is there the risk it may become useless in a new phase of the game? Maybe Mana no longer needed?
mana will be needed forever, just for an example level 33 main hall will need 910k mana for upgrade, account 10% base decay every day and that non premium mana buildings wont go extremely high compared to what we have now
 
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