Discussion Upcoming Tournament Changes (pre-release)

[PrimroseSylvia]

I think 146k

 

[Dony]

And how many points for 19 chests ?
161,000 ?

right now 166 000, 25 players 25 provinces at 6 rounds

 

[CrazyWizard]

I also wonder why they do not ask for sentient, but have no issue asking for mana,

How is that a good idea when it comepetes with reseaches and upgrades? especially in the chapters short ofter it's introduction where people in general struggle with mana.

And for later chapters how are you supposed to pay 50K mana for a negotiation and at the same time save up 2.5m mana for a wonder ugrade or 1500K mana for a main hall upgrade? if both the spire and tournants drain it away

If they wany negotiating a viable strategy they should stay away from all decaying goods. not just sentient.

 

[DeletedUser2561]

While I do welcome the change of one encounter per province instead of 4 and catering costs cut in half, there are some thing I am afraid of.


Judging by the video, enemy troop size will be based on production boosts, research progress, wonder levels and number of expansions. I am afraid of this, because as far as I know, spire encounters already punish players badly for buying premium expansions; now this will be applied to the tourament as well. BAD!

Making the type of goods to be catered no longer depending on tournament type ... is probably a bad idea. On the one hand yes, it will reduce the weekly tide of needed goods caused by the tournament. On the other hand, worldwide overproduction of certain types of goods (lets say scrolls produced by spire set) can no longer be offset by people buying more provinces in the corresponding tournament, resulting in longterm imbalances. We already have longterm imbalances in sentient goods, we should not eliminate balancing influences for regular goods.

More randomized enemies ... slight randomness or completely unrelated to the tournament's relic type? My guess is completely unrelated, because the tournament get's spire-y anyway. That will de-value the mage- and archer-buffing expiring buildings from the academy, because their usefulness will shift from "great for specific tournaments" to "average for all of them".

 

[DeletedUser3289]

right now 166 000, 25 players 25 provinces at 6 rounds

And the ranking points and kp pattern remains same as existing tournaments?
I know I should wait till Tuesday, but in case anyone has access to info, I’m eager

 

[Pauly7]

Great points, well put together @Dony @CrazyWizard. It leaves very little to go over.

My one comment, @Dony is that I don't find your #4 to be a problem. The 9 new chests just have nominal prizes and are there for those fellowships wishing to push it further for fun. I am very glad that the big prizes are not in those chests.

@Marindor, I hope this (below) point, in particular, can be addressed because I don't understand why they will continue to penalise people for spending money:

Problem 3: Punishing paying players
This is also a part of the lever effect, I am already in the situation that buying premium has a worse effect on my spire difficulty then then not buying it. the value that a (premium) expansion adds depends on 3 other factors which makes no sense, it adds "x" power, and not 3 or 20 times "x".
Premium is a bonus to make thing easier, it's 1 of your sources of income, but yet you build a formula that punishes people that actually buy them by making there game more difficult as an end result, this incentive people NOT to buy premium. this sounds from a commercial standpoint just wrong.

Apologies for the lack of a proper quote. (Why can't I do quotes in the beta forum?)

I would also be keen to know if there is a planned overhaul of the temporary military upgrade buildings because these changes have made ELRs and MMMs virtually useless, as @Dony says in Issue #10.

 

[Dony]

And the ranking points and kp pattern remains same as existing tournaments?
I know I should wait till Tuesday, but in case anyone has access to info, I’m eager

my guess is it will be the same as now since they didnt talked anything about it in the video, they mentioned only chests 11-19
i would be surprised if they nerfed individual rewards and not mention it anywere (they did nerf it in term of difficulty later on tho)

 

[iDavis]

I still wonder whether that randomized units will be like 100% random or there will be at least some dependency on tourney type. If the former is correct, I seriously feel like the whole spirit of tournament will be gone. It will be every week the same - training all troops you have (without any strategy) to fight in totally unrelated, from the sky fallen encounters. That´s not interesting at all. I can swallow most of these changes (even as tourney hardcore player against whom this change is), but this one stands apart and I´m somehow not able to.

If you want to make it less repetitive this way, I somehow see no reason to keep 9 different tournaments anymore. You can reduce number of tournament types, make some combinations of them into less, solve the "which relic to provide" problem and keep at least some strategy for tournament preparation, whilst still having less repetitive gameplay.

 

[Lovec Krys]

@Dony If we will be able to do 20 provinces instead of 50+ it's actualy a great indirect nerf of the personal rewards.

 

[Angeduciel]

• Less clicks makes me happy
• Less chance to win KPs makes me extremely unhappy, as I want to be able to benefit from by AW, before I quit playing the game. It is already an extremely slow process to improve them
• Less rewards such as spells makes me unhappy because I use them to be able to win KP faster.
• Less strategy in my game play makes me unhappy. I enjoy being challenged and getting prepared to do better. Don't put everything random!!
• I find the biggest mistake in the past was to let players win more then 1 brown bear and more then 1 Fire phoenix. This has introduced a major unbalance in our ability to do tourneys. Why increase the tourney costs to everyone to compensate for that mistake and pretend that this is for balancing new and old players? Why don't you adress this issue?

 

[Dony]

@Dony If we will be able to do 20 provinces instead of 50+ it's actualy a great indirect nerf of the personal rewards.

yes thats why i dont think they nerfed even provinces 1-20 rewards

 

[Maillie]

Issue #1
While it may sound good to have all types of goods for negotiating, for casual FS which aimed to do 10 chests once per month or once per 2 months it will be horrible, they were preparing usually 4 specific goods in the past now they will need 13 goods else they can forget about 10 chests ever

This. My main city in Winyandor gets 10 chests about once a month. This is pure enjoyment for us, and comes about because the end game players go far into the tournament if needed. I can see a HUGE problem with this happening now.

Another concern is that we had options that are taken away now. In each province we had 4 encounters. We could fight them all, or we could fight 3 of them and cater one that might waste too many troops. We could cater 2 and fight 2, whatever it took. Option gone. This could be a real problem for the small cities. They either have to have the troops to fight a 4x stronger enemy group, or they have to have 4x the amount of goods. For the small cities I don't see either as a viable option.

 

[Verde]

Another concern is that we had options that are taken away now. In each province we had 4 encounters. We could fight them all, or we could fight 3 of them and cater one that might waste too many troops. We could cater 2 and fight 2, whatever it took. Option gone. This could be a real problem for the small cities. They either have to have the troops to fight a 4x stronger enemy group, or they have to have 4x the amount of goods. For the small cities I don't see either as a viable option.

Would have been nice if they'd given players the option i.e. either opt to do one fight for the province or be able to open it and do 1-4 in whatever manner

 

[Dony]

My one comment, @Dony is that I don't find your #4 to be a problem. The 9 new chests just have nominal prizes and are there for those fellowships wishing to push it further for fun. I am very glad that the big prizes are not in those chests.

I do have a problem with this, if top players in that fellowships will now get 20% of rewards then before, they would want some compesation for trouble and 10AW KP and 1 RSS is not something worth of time/resources/effort, no incentive to push, i am not saying this rewards must be great or for example second blueprint, but there are many other things they can offer to be worth it to push atleast from time to time. I am pretty sure players who pushed high scores now are not doing it just for fun, but for rewards.

 

[Pauly7]

I do have a problem with this, if top players in that fellowships will now get 20% of rewards then before, they would want some compesation for trouble and 10AW KP and 1 RSS is not something worth of time/resources/effort, no incentive to push, i am not saying this rewards must be great or for example second blueprint, but there are many other things they can offer to be worth it to push atleast from time to time. I am pretty sure players who pushed high scores now are not doing it just for fun, but for rewards.

I understand, but there would be a lot of push-back if they effectively said that the requirement for 10 chests have been doubled. People still need to feel like they've completed the challenge after 10. There are some fellowships who are getting those kind of big numbers (100k+) anyway, just for the fun of being No. 1. I think these "bonus" chests are aimed at those teams.

Agreed, though, if there is a prize worth having which doesn't guilt people into pushing too hard for FOMO, then I am all for it.

 

[Lovec Krys]

@Pauly7 And I don't think they will get them, as an End game player you can't go back to the Wood Elves and remove half of your expansions (of course, you can delete half of your wonders).
We will see if they will listen this time or it will be again: We listened. No changes made (or few cosmetic ones with no overall effect).
Now I'm starting to thinking which wonders I'll delete instead of maxing them out. And the first wonder victim is probably Tournament Arena, which I planned to build, now I'll probably not even research it (still researching the third row from the end).

 

[Karvest]

Teams that get 100k+points do it not for additional 50awkp from bonus chests which they give us, but for additional 200-300 personal KP + a bunch of spells which are taken away by this change.

 

[DeletedUser2300]

I am still processing this lol

 

[DeletedUser3289]

I understand, but there would be a lot of push-back if they effectively said that the requirement for 10 chests have been doubled. People still need to feel like they've completed the challenge after 10. There are some fellowships who are getting those kind of big numbers (100k+) anyway, just for the fun of being No. 1. I think these "bonus" chests are aimed at those teams.

Agreed, though, if there is a prize worth having which doesn't guilt people into pushing too hard for FOMO, then I am all for it.

It’s more than just 9 additional chests. It’s vets who make 10k in tournament now can’t get the kp if the costs are exponential as in spire. I’m not sure how the difficulty increases with more provinces but it’s possible to severely restrict vets to 30ish (or 40) provinces.

Reason : I use 7.5 squads/slot on the very last boss battle in spire. So 1 defeat = 37.5 squads lost. Losing 4 such battles in tournaments = 150 squads (bye bye)

 

[Ashrem]

At least we finally get the real reason why they removed some of the guest race goods from some optional Squad size techs. Not all of them, so it's a bit anger inducing that they've removed all of the downsides to optional SS techs, but left several that con only be taken now by rebuilding guest race portals and getting them high enough to store enough goods to even be able to do it, and you can't do it with Portal Profits, because those won't produce goods from earlier chapters. (and then Amuni, where we'll need to produce 130,000 grave goods and 3000 traps, which I'm never going to do, so can expect to continue forever to be at a disadvantage in my province encounters while gaining nothing in return.

Brilliant way to treat players. I hope it makes you lots and lots of money.