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Discussion Upcoming Tournament Changes (pre-release)

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Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
Why just not add an open battlefield? this way you can skip the guess work, and every AI issue related to maps will be gone.
The top left, it thats the worng enemy or played on auto it's a 100% negotiate, manual that battle could be a nice loss free manual if the enemy matchup is right. otherwise is a full negotiate in any case.
I'm sure I'm not following all of what you are saying here. In the first two sentences I think you are saying that from the map you'd choose which troops to place and where they go or choose to cater. The rest of your post leaves me confused unless you are talking about having manual battles operate from the simplified map.

If I am understanding the first two sentences are correctly, my idea has the advantage of probably being a smallish code change with minimal graphics and user interface addition, thus can probably be done fairly quickly on mobile and browser. Your idea would take a much larger code change with a new graphical interface which may be difficult to smoothly implement to work on small mobile devices. That means a longer development time. Browser development would not have as many complexities, but it's still a significant new interface. Regardless, the mobile players are currently fighting completely blind. This would at least give them a glimpse of the world. I still think it would help a lot to have the simple map available before the code goes to the live servers.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
If we remove terrain obstackles from the equasion we do not need a minimap, and the AI doesn't get confused and create autolosses for those on mobile.
based on unit strength, move, range and initiative you can pretty accuratly predict the outcome of a battle.

One of the main issues we see now is that for people who autocombat (mobile players don't have another option) they can't understand why they just lost a battle that shoud not be loost. in almost all cases this is because of a combination of AI and/or terrein.

Remove that part and the problem solves itself.
It's also way easier to code.

Second part is about your examples, the left one is on auto near impossible to win, due to terrain(bottlenecking) and the large chance the AI screws it up. also if your enemy has range advantage since you are bottlenecked even on manual you might not even be able to win that battle. and it's a guaranteed negotiote map.
If you have the range advantage because your enemy is melee based this map is godly in manual mode and you will not loose a single unit.
 

DeletedUser1657

Guest
One small note on the premium expansion concerns: Yes, they do count towards the difficulty in the current setup, but less than the regular expansions. Nonetheless we will of course forward the concerns that in your opinion they shouldn't count at all, but I just wanted to make that extra clear before everyone starts thinking they have a major influence or something, while it's actually very little.

That may be so, but the lack of clarity is creating doubt, confusion and suspicion. We were told wonder levels have a minor impact on spire difficulty, but the real effect players are reporting is not the case. This is the baseline we have for comparison for what we are now told that premium expansion do not have a major influence, but the real world effect is unknown. While players may eventually figure it out it will take time.

What that has done is completely change my thinking, today I received a 100% diamond offer, something I have been waiting on to buy some more expansions. However the uncertainty around this area has led me to skip my purchase, something that saddens me as I was looking forward to the extra expansions. However I need to understand my purchase better, currently I know the benefit I receive for the money I spend. Adding a purchase I make into the difficulty of activities in the game reduces the benefit I perceive for my purchase. Without a very good understanding of what my true value will be, I am left to guess at that value when making a decision to purchase.

I doubt the developers will reveal the true impact of premium expansion on the difficulty, as it likely requires revealing the whole formula, which I understand would not be desired from a development point of view. This unfortunately leaves me with guessing what my true value will be. Other players will have to make that same guess and depending on their level of trust of the game and suspicious nature as a consumer this can have varied impacts on that perceived value.

Even once players assess the impact in real play terms, any purchase I make going forward will always have to adjust in my mind the value I perceive I am purchasing. Please also remember that every expansion purchased already significantly increases in price, this change from a consumer perspective is another price increase but one we can't clearly determine.

Then there is the second side to this coin and that is as a consumer I feel like I what I have already bought at a certain value has or is about to depreciate in value. This one is more emotional and will impact people differently based on that emotional connection/reaction

I hope this post is perceived in the spirit it was intended, a genuine sharing of my (and perhaps others) thinking when choosing to buy an expansion.
 

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
Thanks @CrazyWizard, I thought I was misunderstanding. The game's auto-fight code is scary to watch in rough terrains with the way the troops block themselves so that the appropriate troops are not leading the way. Removing the obstacles from the terrain does solve that problem, but seems to me like it would remove almost all strategy. Keeping the obstacles, but allowing the arena to be seen would at least let players better know when they should cater a province it would have seemed easy to win. When the arenas are not as extreme as my example, I think it would help with choices. But this type change to the game is a different subject than the changes to the tournaments.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
They could really annoy people with this and add the multi-stage fights from the Spire into the tournament for either the higher stars or the very far away provinces, say at least 30 or 40 out, and still give the more hardcore players a challenge. ;)
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
I feel the same... We shall know the extent very soon...

I feel like I what I have already bought at a certain value has or is about to depreciate in value. This one is more emotional and will impact people differently based on that emotional connection/reaction
 

DeletedUser2803

Guest
It is the new elvenar from 9 months+, no more strategy, only random ^^ for the game designer, random is fun !
Personally I believe, coming up with a different strategy for every battle is more fun than using 5 frogs in every single battle of relic tournament, 200 battles per day (50 provinces + 4 encounters), 5 times per week, which means that you do 1000 battles with the exact same setup. I do not see how you consider this "strategy".
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
I do not think I have ever played a tournament with 1 setup in the past (how long to tournaments exist 4 years?)
But since there are only like 10 differen enemy setups, the same fights do return a lot, and I think when you consider people need to learn combat that is a good thing. since the same fights return quite often you can experiment and learn from your mistakes.

If you drop 4 dwarven armories and 10 light range boosters off course noting matters anymore and it will be dumb 100x a repeat of the same setup, but that would not change in the new format either. there to can you just put so many boosters down that nothing matters anymore.
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
Personally I believe, coming up with a different strategy for every battle is more fun than using 5 frogs in every single battle of relic tournament, 200 battles per day (50 provinces + 4 encounters), 5 times per week, which means that you do 1000 battles with the exact same setup. I do not see how you consider this "strategy".
If you fight with a single troop, you still have to plan ahead which troop to train, what, if any, military boost buildings to use, whether to go 40 provinces two deep, 20 five deep, or 15 six deep, and what goods to have on hand, . Troop selection is a single aspect of the overall strategy, and most of those decisions are now irrelevant.
 

Marindor

Well-Known Member
Hi everyone,

Thank you once again all the shared feedback, concerns and ideas. In order to seperate the pre-release feedback from the post-release feedback, please post any new things you'd like to add after experiencing the new setup in this thread. We will now lock this one, but will of course leave it open to read back everything.

Kind regards,
Your Elvenar Team
 
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