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Discussion Tournament changes

galrond

Well-Known Member
Here's how my boosts will look after the tourney.

R1R2R3R4R5R6Total no. of relics
Prov 1 MD1112229
Prov 5 Plank22333417
Prov 7 Scroll33344421

Boosts before & after tourney:
T1: 644% (424 relics) / 661% (441 relics)
T2: 661% (446 relics) / 678% (467 relics)
T3: 443% (211 relics) / 453% (220 relics)

Under the old system I would have gained 105 MD relics (7 provinces x 6 rounds), giving a boost of 547% (and 1 relic shy of the next level 557%). Next tournament MD will move to province 2 which will give me 11 relics, the tourney after that will give me 13 and so on. It will take nearly 2 months to gain the relics I lost because of this change. The increase in T1 and T2 boosts do not compensate for that loss.

I understand that it evens out and I can see the benefits of the change but also note that the loss now will have ongoing detrimental effects because I have to compensate for under performing T3. This means I have less resource flexibility. If I can't make enough T3 to complete the spire each week or clear 9 provinces then I lose out on rewards and more relics. If I lose out on spire rewards then upgrades will take longer (less time boosters) with greater down time (loss of production) and the only way around this is to build more inefficient T3 manufactories which further depletes my resources. The consequences are not just in the loss of relics but in what those relics provided.
Yes you´re right: It sucks concerning MD relics/boost, and the boost to Planks and Scrolls doesn´t fully compensate you :mad:
But the players, who have eliksir instead, will recieve a great boon: They don´t have to wait 2 months to increase their boost.
Fair? Not really. But whenever a change is implemented, some will benefit (or be punished) more than others.
Btw. I think you miscalculate: If I understand the rotation right, then MD will become prov. 9, planks prov. 4 and scroll prov. 6.
Another thing: why are you so hellbend on doing 9 provinces every week?
If I were you, then I would either do 7 (to get scrolls) or 10 (to get 2. row of MD) this week. Next week 9, and the week after 8.

It has been said, that this change will accomulate a bigger % of "useless" relics compared to the old way.
This is may be true, if you went further in the tournaments, that gave you the relics you needed.
If you didn´t differ much in tournament activity from week to week, then the % of "useless" relics will be more or less the same in a 9 week span.

The funny thing is, that you can increase the % of "usefull" relics, while maintaining a stable tournament activity from week to week (many FS like this, to ensure chests).
Many ppl. (myself included) have gone either 2 or 5 rounds out in prov. 10+ to get the best VP-yield.
You could do something likewise to get the best relic-yield.
The only mandatory "useless" relics you have to get, are from round one, so you can unlock the prov. that give the relics you want.
I know this approach collide with many other interests: tournament points, VP etc., but so does skiping whole tournaments :p
At the end of the day it´s up to the single player, to decide what they need the most.
One thing is sure: if I had 3k+ relics of all, then relic hunting would have VERY low priority :cool:

When it comes to the altered relic cost to make spells in AM...... Well I´m still to notice what the change is o_O
 

galrond

Well-Known Member
From my point of view, with this system it takes just as long to get the bonus relics as in the old one, with the difference that new players now have to play every tournament.
I read "Better player retention" here somewhere. Yep, that's probably an obvious point, if you as a new player want relics, you now have to play tournaments every week, instead of maybe three times in two months.

"Especially to help early players acquire different types of relics more easily instead of having to wait over 2 months to get relics from a specific type."
Yup, because all relics are valuable to a new player.
the correct translation is probably ...
"Especially we want to bind new players to the game, if they want to progress, they have to play every tournament instead of just coming when it suits them."

I know I'm a bad witch!
Well the translation could also be:
"We don´t want to punish new players hard, if they don´t have the time to be VERY active in the weeks their boosts are up"

I know I´m a grumpy old man!
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
Well, to maintain MM spell creation 24/7 in MA5 you needed over 7k points in 2 tournaments in the old system.
You could do push weeks these two tournaments by sacrificing the rest (for example use expiring buildings for those 2 weeks only).
Now you need to do over 7k in every tournament to maintain relics needed to create MM spells.....
So in other words, if you don't belong to the top 50 tournament players you are no longer able to focus on creating MM spells 24/7 in MA5.


Edit: corrected below.
 
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SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
Well, to maintain MM spell creation 24/7 in MA5 you needed over 7k points in 2 tournaments in the old system.
You could do push weeks these two tournaments by sacrificing the rest (for example use expiring buildings for those 2 weeks only).
Now you need to do over 7k in every tournament to maintain relics needed to create MM spells.....
So in other words, if you don't belong to the top 50 tournament players you are no longer able to focus on creating MM spells 24/7 in MA5.
Yeah, that's waaaay too much tournament for me (clicking and waiting I mean, I can handle the troops/goods)
Maybe, just maybe if I get enough bears for zero cooldown I'll do it.
 

little bee

Well-Known Member
Well, to maintain MM spell creation 24/7 in MA5 you needed over 7k points in 2 tournaments in the old system.
You could do push weeks these two tournaments by sacrificing the rest (for example use expiring buildings for those 2 weeks only).
Now you need to do over 7k in every tournament to maintain relics needed to create MM spells.....
So in other words, if you don't belong to the top 50 tournament players you are no longer able to focus on creating MM spells 24/7 in MA5.
Actually you only need 378 (=6*7*9) relicts per 9 weeks for that. (Plus maybe a little extra for petfood.) That can be done with only 4500 points per tournament (16 provinces to 6*, 17th province to 4* and 20 relicts from chests). Even without the sixth star it can be done with playing only 21 provinces per tournament. I played around with the numbers a little and there is just no way to get to 7k points for 380 relicts. In fact, if you only do 2* per province you could do it with 3300 points. (But it would take 50 provinces so you really shouldn't.)

I know that 20 provinces per tournament is still a lot, but it is nowhere close to what you are suggesting. Maybe double check your calculation.
 

galrond

Well-Known Member
Well, to maintain MM spell creation 24/7 in MA5 you needed over 7k points in 2 tournaments in the old system.
You could do push weeks these two tournaments by sacrificing the rest (for example use expiring buildings for those 2 weeks only).
Now you need to do over 7k in every tournament to maintain relics needed to create MM spells.....
So in other words, if you don't belong to the top 50 tournament players you are no longer able to focus on creating MM spells 24/7 in MA5.
Well I must admit, that I thought you exagerated with the 7k+ in tournament in the old system :oops:
378 relics each of 2 types to make AM create MM 24/7 in nine weeks. That´s a lot, so 7k+ might be right.
That said, I don´t know how that leads to a demand for producing 378 relics every week o_O
If you need silk and gems relics you need 42 of each of those every week. You don´t need 42 steel relics, nor elixir relics, nor........
I would expect it to be easier to get 2 times 42 specifik relics every week, then to get 378 relics 2 weeks out of 9. I know expiring buildings and firephoenix helps, but still......
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
@little bee I counted that number a long time ago.
So new calculation:
2 relics for a single spell.
1 spell for 8 hours.
6 relics per day
42 relics per week
378 relics over 9 weeks
That's 17.5 provinces needed to get the relics (or 4698 points). (6 rounds - i have 0 cooldown in my main city).
So yes, you were much closer than i was. So the MM spell creation should be sustainable for much longer than anticipated.
 

DeletedUser3726

Guest
Yes you´re right: It sucks concerning MD relics/boost, and the boost to Planks and Scrolls doesn´t fully compensate you :mad:
But the players, who have eliksir instead, will recieve a great boon: They don´t have to wait 2 months to increase their boost.
Fair? Not really. But whenever a change is implemented, some will benefit (or be punished) more than others.
Btw. I think you miscalculate: If I understand the rotation right, then MD will become prov. 9, planks prov. 4 and scroll prov. 6.
Another thing: why are you so hellbend on doing 9 provinces every week?
If I were you, then I would either do 7 (to get scrolls) or 10 (to get 2. row of MD) this week. Next week 9, and the week after 8.

It has been said, that this change will accomulate a bigger % of "useless" relics compared to the old way.
This is may be true, if you went further in the tournaments, that gave you the relics you needed.
If you didn´t differ much in tournament activity from week to week, then the % of "useless" relics will be more or less the same in a 9 week span.

The funny thing is, that you can increase the % of "usefull" relics, while maintaining a stable tournament activity from week to week (many FS like this, to ensure chests).
Many ppl. (myself included) have gone either 2 or 5 rounds out in prov. 10+ to get the best VP-yield.
You could do something likewise to get the best relic-yield.
The only mandatory "useless" relics you have to get, are from round one, so you can unlock the prov. that give the relics you want.
I know this approach collide with many other interests: tournament points, VP etc., but so does skiping whole tournaments :p
At the end of the day it´s up to the single player, to decide what they need the most.
One thing is sure: if I had 3k+ relics of all, then relic hunting would have VERY low priority :cool:

When it comes to the altered relic cost to make spells in AM...... Well I´m still to notice what the change is o_O

Much of my comment and others are a rant. I should have seen this coming. Every time Inno says they have a good deal or great new idea I know it's time to put my back to the wall and today is no different. I am so mad about missing out on 100+ relics for my T3. This would have been my first MD tourney since I was 2 weeks old so my first opportunity to gain a big number of relics.

I planned my beta city strategically - calculated production rates and balanced military with goods to ensure I meet my fellowship goals of gold spire and 10 chests. Only twice have I had to ask for help. Every other time I've been able to climb to the top of the spire and complete 6 - 10 provinces in the tourney. 3 out of 9 tourney weeks were supposed to be "rest" weeks for me where I could get away with doing the minimum in order to build up troops and goods for the other weeks.

You are right, of course; it is what it is. I've already set about adapting my strategy for these changes by building an extra T3 manufactory to cover the fact that it's going to take another 9 weeks to get the relic boost I was expecting and those relics will cost me more even if I cherry pick the provinces.

In spite of my complaining and tantrum I am truly grateful to be part of a wonderfully supportive fellowship who've helped me with T3 goods to cover the shortfall until I find my feet again.
 

little bee

Well-Known Member
When it comes to the altered relic cost to make spells in AM...... Well I´m still to notice what the change is o_O
All the enchantments except for CCs have been changed to needing only boost+1 relicts. This is a very usefull change in my view. So far the tier3 boost+2 relict has been overdemanded. It was needed for CCs, MMs and petfood. Now it' only CCs and petfood. So, when we run out we can still craft MMs instead.

It may be a little disappointing that there is still no use for boosted relicts after 500 (except for upgrading wonders). But this is definitively an improvement. And I really hope this comes to live soon. :D
 

Droopy

Well-Known Member
What is the purpose to have a Dust Tournament or Marble Tournament or any other of them? First you completely messed up the difficulty formula, then you made a bigger mess from the needed troops for each particular tournament and now, the last stab, in a Dust tourny I DO NOT GET Dust relics but all of them.

What makes a Dust Tournament be a Dust Tournament if I may ask?
The specific needed troops? Nope, that part was killed almost completely.
The specific relics (in this particular case - Magic Dust relics)? Nope - you took that away from us too.
So, I come again with the question - what makes a specific tournament having that name?

The chests only give DUST relics, so i can still see that calling DUST Tournament is justified.

Little bit strange though is that in the provinces we start with dust relic and the first 1 which is dust you get only 1.
May be it would fit better to have the first 3 provinces dust relics and than start rolling.
The roll of relics is not that bad IMO, but at the end of the tournament you should always end up with the most relics gained where the tournament was about.

The 1st round i gained most relics in Marble and that doesn't seem to be logic.
 

GerdyaanB

Well-Known Member
What People seem to forget is that you can skip the rounds for relics you dont need....probably after round 2....so i have done as much first round provinces to have 3 dust provinces but will skip the non dust provinces probably after collecting the kp from round 2...this will help a bit if you can afford and have enough provinces unlocked..
 

Ainor

Well-Known Member
this new tournament need more strategy if the pourpose is to gain specific type of relic
(As far as I am concerned, I have always done all tournament because I have always think that it's the better long-term strategy. In fact, I have never had any problems with relics and this new tournement nothing changes me...)

I think this change has nothing to do with helping smaller cities and everything to do with forcing tournament participation.
I agree... every change seem have the purpose to uniforme way of play.. and this is bad to me
 
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Lelanya

Well-Known Member
No one seems to have noticed yet that the kp rewards from province 10 on up in round 2 have been reduced. Yes, you get kp with every province, so that is an improvement if you just go to 16 or 20 provinces. But if you go higher, that's a net loss. The big power tourney players who use their super-power to rake in the kp in tourneys are going to be annoyed.
I noticed. That's in the US Forum and on threads with my associates, my FSs.
 

Lelanya

Well-Known Member
I do not like the relics part at all. I need dust relics for CCs (beside the other 2 - steel and scrolls).

Thank you @InnoGames, you managed to screw up the tournament even more than before.
Bit by bit you take out the strategy part from the game, you are forcing us to play the way you want, not the way we want. What's next? A shuffle board for rewards and/ or relics?

What is the purpose to have a Dust Tournament or Marble Tournament or any other of them? First you completely messed up the difficulty formula, then you made a bigger mess from the needed troops for each particular tournament and now, the last stab, in a Dust tourny I DO NOT GET Dust relics but all of them.

What makes a Dust Tournament be a Dust Tournament if I may ask?
The specific needed troops? Nope, that part was killed almost completely.
The specific relics (in this particular case - Magic Dust relics)? Nope - you took that away from us too.
So, I come again with the question - what makes a specific tournament having that name?
The rewards chests are unchanged @Alcaro so we still get the awards at the end.
 

Lelanya

Well-Known Member
@Pauly7
This directly negates what you've been trying to do with your small cities, does it not? How can you avoid collecting boosted relics?
 

Pauly7

Well-Known Member
I noticed. That's in the US Forum and on threads with my associates, my FSs.
I think the original quote there was before we understood this properly, but you will never win less KP than previously. Provinces 10+ of rounds 1 and 2 add up to the same as the old round 2. Rounds 3, 4 and 5 now add up to the old round 5.
@Pauly7
This directly negates what you've been trying to do with your small cities, does it not? How can you avoid collecting boosted relics?
Luckily I don't do that. Avoiding relics was just a step too far for my liking as I still want to be able to participate in the tournaments. So I just accepted the 700% boost. It doesn't matter at all, though. So far Spire and tournaments are so painfully easy to cater in that chapter 4 city.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Under the old system I would have gained 105 MD relics (7 provinces x 6 rounds), giving a boost of 547% (and 1 relic shy of the next level 557%). Next tournament MD will move to province 2 which will give me 11 relics, the tourney after that will give me 13 and so on. It will take nearly 2 months to gain the relics I lost because of this change. The increase in T1 and T2 boosts do not compensate for that loss.
The point is that if you play all 9 weeks, you get the same amount of relics, but instead of only getting a boost in production every 9 weeks you now het a more gradual improvement each week. this way you don't feel holden back, because 1 of your boost is 500% and the other only 200% because you havent got the correct week yet, or because you missed a week because you where sick and now have to wait another 9 weeks for any improvement.

This imbalances your production between T1, T2 and T3 a lot. with this approach it should be more gradual, and each of the T1,2,3 should be leveling about evently. so no crazy differences.

From my point of view, with this system it takes just as long to get the bonus relics as in the old one, with the difference that new players now have to play every tournament.
I read "Better player retention" here somewhere. Yep, that's probably an obvious point, if you as a new player want relics, you now have to play tournaments every week, instead of maybe three times in two months.

"Especially to help early players acquire different types of relics more easily instead of having to wait over 2 months to get relics from a specific type."
Yup, because all relics are valuable to a new player.
the correct translation is probably ...
"Especially we want to bind new players to the game, if they want to progress, they have to play every tournament instead of just coming when it suits them."

I know I'm a bad witch!
Thats the whole point of this change. I am pretty sure they see in there data certain player retention patterns thay are trying to adress here.
We have seen plenty of changes recently that shows they are working hard for it.

For example not to long ago (3-4 months or so?) they overhauled the tech tree for chapter 1-2-3 to make it "quicker", they also overhauled the questline and the tutorail for these chapters. they questline is now much more focussed on making it easier, with rewards like standard goods, timeboosters and diamonds, and it's also be more like a tutorail, you get something and then a quest that somewhat needs those rewars or those rewards help you achieve it quicker.

So it all makes sense.
 

TyuriB

New Member
HAli. I think the rolling relic championship makes it much harder to plan with the amount of relics. Now I would have needed a magic powder relic but I didn’t get it. I also get relics that there are a lot of and I don’t know what to use them for. Since the bonus goods are different for everyone, the need for the relic is different for everyone. Let me decide which relic I get from. According to him, this change takes away the possibility of design from the gaming experience. In Series 3, I will get 5 pieces instead of the planned 32 pieces. This is not a sparrow tournament just one .... ????? ... Ridiculous. This is very - very not good .....
 
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