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Discussion Tournament changes

Avocado

Well-Known Member
Maze of Dark Matter 31 mainly for the 2% mana decay (once upon a time deleted on 11 then rebuilt to keep up with milions of mana requirements)

Thanks a lot for posting this wonder list, Lovec, and the reasoning, it is very helpful, I learned some interesting things, i.e. that the Maze is not useless.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
I'm reading these last posts about the differences in fighting/catering costs in the two cities of @Lovec Krys mouth gaping wide open....wtf??? Did I understand this right? There has always been a tournament penalty for wonder levels and extensions?! And now with the new formula (what is this formula exactly? ... (So far it is doing fine in tournaments Chap IX). So is this a strategy which will lead to ruining the citys tournament power?
I fully appreciate and understand the mouth gaping wide open. The vast change in squad size within the same chapter is surreal and what is also mouth gaping wide open is that players were pointing this out before they did this and the feed back was ignored. What I'm finding on live is an utter level of boredom being expressed by FS members. There's little point to the game anymore and the lack of response to fixing this is wearing thin. If we weren't all such a bunch of addicts, the game would be dead.

You can go to chapter 15 and stop with the shortest path to getting the military upgrades to be a strong player.
 

Avocado

Well-Known Member

I found the post about the tournament changes 2020 and a link to a spreadsheet calculating the impact of individual Relics Boost%, WonderLevels, Research Progress and Number of Expansions on resulting costs for spire and tournament. I did not have time to check, whether the calculation yields the correct results (as seen in the game). Would be interesting, if that spreadsheet also foresees the results, that @Lovec Krys presented.

Personally I do not mind a bit of balancing a possible rocketing development with too many diamonds, but not to the point where one does not get a reward for hard work....

So I suppose some of you have already played around with this spreadsheet or similar and found an answer to the question, whether this kind of calculation leads to a point, where Wonder Levelling and expansions from Overscouting really do harm to the continuous tournament performance improvement over the chapters and development. Did anyone find that out?
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member

I found the post about the tournament changes 2020 and a link to a spreadsheet calculating the impact of individual Relics Boost%, WonderLevels, Research Progress and Number of Expansions on resulting costs for spire and tournament. I did not have time to check, whether the calculation yields the correct results (as seen in the game). Would be interesting, if that spreadsheet also foresees the results, that @Lovec Krys presented.

Personally I do not mind a bit of balancing a possible rocketing development with too many diamonds, but not to the point where one does not get a reward for hard work....

So I suppose some of you have already played around with this spreadsheet or similar and found an answer to the question, whether this kind of calculation leads to a point, where Wonder Levelling and expansions from Overscouting really do harm to the continuous tournament performance improvement over the chapters and development. Did anyone find that out?
We currently see some deviatons from this formula as some have pointed out.
The basics are most likely still correct but the details are a little different it seems
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
Will be paying attention. That first blimp my former squad size was about 14% bigger on beta, and then it was only 10% bigger on live and I just thought, really, you increase the spread of the disadvantage of moving past chapter 15 even more?

I think a number of the techs in chapter 18 need to be made optional. The number of required techs that increase the squad size was a huge increase from previous chapter. I did an exercise counting required tech and I believe it was 27-29 per chapter and it jumped to 38, so I have a marked a proposal for making some of the tech optional to make it so the increase in squad size is less out of line with the increase in resources. This would bring the chapter tech increase rate in line with previous chapters. (1.0042^29 - 1) = 12.9% increase. (1.0042^38-1) = 17.3% increase. The training speed boost from the chapter was only 10%, and from chapter 15 with the larger tech boost to military speed boost, it is about a 20% decline because of advancing. So, with the 34 tech in chapter 19, it would also be a good idea to decide on making 5 or 6 of the tech optional to further reduce the tech hit. The only other way to fix it is to match the increased military speed to the actual chapter tech boost, so adjustments would be needed for chapter 16, 17, 18 and 19, and I think the military speed for the end of chapter 19 should be 800, not 690.

Further studying what you've done is you created the chapter 15 being a sweet spot because of going from giving a military boosts in alternate chapters to making it every chapter, by skipping chapter 16 for 2 out of 3 of the military buildings and I guess there was an increase for 1 out of the 3 in chapter 16. That's an effective 7% increase for chapter 16, but some would argue less because of the military being weaker. Accounting for that, chapter 19 should have a training speed of 745 and then it could be argued that the military power for the speed of building units is comparable.

I've always found a little more choice in how to go through the chapter is way more preferable to locking it up so you must "go exactly like this", so I think it would also improve the chapter experience, which if you've been reading the feedback, isn't good.

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I have different ideas mixed in this post. So chapter 16 has 28 required tech for an increase in squad size of 12.5% and the effective increase from the one military unit producer was 7%, for a net decline of 5.5%. I can see the effort to make the military units the same speed. It should have been 480 for all, not 450.

So chapter 17 has 29 required tech for an increase in unit size of 12.9%. To make up for the decline of chapter 16, chapter 17 needed an increase of 12.9% on a speed of 480, which is 542, so round to 540.

Chapter 18 has the 38 required tech and the 17.3% squad size increase, so the speed should be 635 to make it comparable to the military production of chapter 15.

Chapter 19 has 34 required tech for a squad size increase of 15.3% for 735. Not quite sure why when I approached it from one direction I got 745 and another I got 735, so I'm just going to average to 740.

So I've looked at two ways to fix the the staying stronger by staying in chapter 15. One is to make some mandatory tech optional and reduce the increase of the squad size hit that way, but it also requires some upward adjustments in speed because even with reducing there are still chapters that have a bigger hit in increasing the squad size from the tech tree than what is given with the military speed increases.

The other is to rebalance the speed of the military buildings.

Chapter 17 adjustment for level 30 should be 540 speed.
Chapter 18 adjustment for level 31 should be 635 speed.
Chapter 19 adjustment for level 32 should be 740 speed.

Currently chapter 18 is an incredibly sucky place to be in the game and the speed increase in chapter 19 does not make up for the decline from chapters 16-18. The calculations I've done is to make the increased squad size tech component of the game match the military speed increase so all things equal, you stay the same. I would have thought that going through the chapters you are actually stronger, so with that in mind adjustments to make you just a little strong would be:

Chapter 17 level 30 barrack, mercenary camp and training ground 545 speed.
Chapter 18 level 31 barrack, mercenary camp and training ground 645 speed.
Chapter 19 level 32 barrack, mercenary camp and training ground 755 speed.

And because of the squad size increase from the land expansions, it might not be true that with those speed increases the player's military strength matches chapter 15. Certainly placing them will make players weaker compared to players that do not.
 
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