SoggyShorts
Well-Known Member
Well, I'm pretty sure I posted
" Obviously I don't expect this level of data to be shared with us..."
so...no...I don't expect it...
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Discussion Tournament Changes (post-release)
- Thread starter Marindor
- Start date
" Obviously I don't expect this level of data to be shared with us..."
so...no...I don't expect it...
Enevhar Aldarion
Well-Known Member
No, that has been happening since the new system started many weeks ago.
Enevhar Aldarion
Well-Known Member
It is still random what you get. They made a change after the first couple of weeks to give us more of the enemies we expect, but the five enemy squad types are still random. And we all know how screwed up Inno's randomness is.
Richord
Well-Known Member
I don't -really- see any difference between:
before and after about 7 squadsize researches.
When should I see the difference? Why are we able to go back in the tree and research them without GR-stuff if they don't seem to matter?
----
As expected: extra units just take more time and rarely actually help. (they just die)
I'm not going to remember 20-30-40??? setups and to use with units from which building. no thanks!
before and after about 7 squadsize researches.
When should I see the difference? Why are we able to go back in the tree and research them without GR-stuff if they don't seem to matter?
----
As expected: extra units just take more time and rarely actually help. (they just die)
I'm not going to remember 20-30-40??? setups and to use with units from which building. no thanks!
Dony
King of Bugs
no change at all
all T3 tournaments has 3 main classes so getting 4 different classes is much easier to get (in general T3 will be hardest tournaments in a sense of more diverse enemy setups)
all T1 tournaments had 1 main class
all T2 tournaments had 2 main classes
FieryArien
Well-Known Member
Does it mean that in T3 tournament I’ll never see a fight with just 2 classes of enemies (I don’t even dare to mention 1 class)? I’ve got just 6 provinces, so just small data, but I had at least two 5-classes encounters and I don’t remember any encounter with less than 3 classes ...
Dony
King of Bugs
You will see those compositions, but less often
DeletedUser1953
Guest
No in the past, you can only have 3 types of ennemies (LR/HM/LM....).
The main problem comes with 4/5 types with 150%+ difficulty -> catering is the only option (if not 2 fire phoenix).
For new tournament, catering is not an option anymore, it is a requirement ^^
The main problem comes with 4/5 types with 150%+ difficulty -> catering is the only option (if not 2 fire phoenix).
For new tournament, catering is not an option anymore, it is a requirement ^^
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Lovec Krys
Well-Known Member
There is another option, if you focus only on your relic tournaments(2-3 depending the spell you create), you can overcome the increased difficulty by using enough temp. buildings (you divide your 9 week temp. building production in 2 or 3 tournaments only). The cost for this is that your score falls down in the rest of the tourneys (from top to average when using only Fire phoenix (especialy if you have high costs due to numbers of expansions & AW levels and are at the end of tech tree).
edeba
Well-Known Member
Another idea to fix the steepness of the AW levels would be to only include the levels of say the higher of the two AW at each AW tech.
So include the AW levels for only the higher of each pair:
Tome or GA
Endless or Needles
Martial Monestary or Crystal Lighthouse
Watchtower Ruins or Thrones
Dwarven Bulwark or Mountain Halls
Prosperity towers or Blooming Traders Guild
Heroes's Forge or Shrooms
Enar's Embassy or Flying Academy
Maze or Dragon Abbey
Toads or Elvenar Trade Center
Sunset Towers or Victory Springs
Pyramid of Purification or Lighthouse of the good Neighbourhood
Timewarp or simia
Vortex of Storage or Thermal Spring of Youth
Spire library or Tournament arena.
So include the AW levels for only the higher of each pair:
Tome or GA
Endless or Needles
Martial Monestary or Crystal Lighthouse
Watchtower Ruins or Thrones
Dwarven Bulwark or Mountain Halls
Prosperity towers or Blooming Traders Guild
Heroes's Forge or Shrooms
Enar's Embassy or Flying Academy
Maze or Dragon Abbey
Toads or Elvenar Trade Center
Sunset Towers or Victory Springs
Pyramid of Purification or Lighthouse of the good Neighbourhood
Timewarp or simia
Vortex of Storage or Thermal Spring of Youth
Spire library or Tournament arena.
DeletedUser1953
Guest
Like a return to the pass, before building +x% and rising catering cost at sorcerer, people played 1/3 tournament with high score and min. for the other
Edit, i was totally wrong :
| Chapter | Expansions | Next Premium Cost | Chapter Progress | Total AW Levels | T1 Boost% | T2 Boost% | T3 Boost% | maxB | M | A | P | V | CAL |
| 16 | 122 | 4,000 | 29 | 215 | 728% | 728% | 728% | 728% | 410 | 215 | 11 | 111 | 6499.1 |
| 16 | 123 | 4,000 | 29 | 215 | 728% | 728% | 728% | 728% | 410 | 215 | 11 | 112 | 6556.2 |
| 16 | 122 | 4,000 | 29 | 245 | 728% | 728% | 728% | 728% | 410 | 245 | 11 | 111 | 6854.7 |
3d row add 30 AW level
As we can see a AW 5x5 level 30 increase the cost by 5.5% (and we do no take into account road to the AW), i remember Marindor says "little".
I am not sure that all AW worth 5.5% (for an AW 5x5) but the main problem is that Inno does not give tools to adapt our city except to create a new one or to loose a lot of invest time.
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Pauly7
Well-Known Member
@Marindor is there any chance of an update on the devs' progress with testing the tournaments? It seems to have been very quiet for a long time. Do you know if it is still being worked on and if so are you able to give us any specifics about what is still being considered?
It has been 5 weeks since the testing moved to the EN server and since then there has been no news from that side. The only change in that time was the three training queues, though I think that was in the pipeline long before it reached EN. All that we are told is that testing has been extended. Some sort of update would be helpful for both servers.
It has been 5 weeks since the testing moved to the EN server and since then there has been no news from that side. The only change in that time was the three training queues, though I think that was in the pipeline long before it reached EN. All that we are told is that testing has been extended. Some sort of update would be helpful for both servers.
PaNonymeB
Well-Known Member
Rereading the comments made about this formula when it has been first released, I found this :
This is very different and much more accurate from what we're told now, which is "every Ancient Wonder will give you more benefits than you would need to make up for the minimal increase in costs for building/upgrading one of these Ancient Wonders." I'd say the actual sentence is "Unless a wonder is not very useful for your playstyle, every Ancient Wonder will give you more benefits than you would need to make up for the minimal increase in costs for building/upgrading one of these Ancient Wonders."
And that would be true : I think a FA or Needles still benefits a fighter, and a MHalls or GA still benefits someone focused on catering. Leveling Thrones would probably still benefit someone playing ranking. And all AWs should be counted as the same penalty, so that some AWs don't suddenly become better than others.
However, I see several reasons why we may have built these "not so useful" AWs we should now delete :
1) Relics from the past. These are AWs that were a big help in early chapters but that become not very useful in later chapters (like ToS). Some of them I knew they would become useless later, and thus never leveled past level 1, like Maze I've now deleted. However, some of them I leveled and kept because I don't want the KP I placed in to be wasted if I were to want them again. A case in point being my ETC I leveled during chapter 15. I'm considering deleting it but I'd miss it should a new chpter require as much sentient goods as chapter 15. A good thing to avoid this issue would be the ability to teleport wonders, so that we can better adapt.
2) There were two things that tended to encourage placing several AWs : the lower KP cost for lower AW levels, and the seeds given per AW level. But now this penalty in Spire and Tournaments given for each AW level are a strong incentive to do the opposite - only level the most useful AWs. Such a change is quite hard (here speaking someone with ~200 AW levels on live and military AWs at level 6-7, still hesitating between fighting and catering. Glad I'm not 200 levels later.) A solution to avoid this would be counting only the most leveled AWs, to encourage people to put more different AWs and not focus on just one playstyle.
3) There's only a limited number of useful AW levels. There are pepole there (not me) with 500+ AW levels, which have already leveled all their useful AWs (~10-15 AWs to level 30) and now have no choice but leveling less useful (= that doesn't really fit their playstyle) AWs that will now hurt more than help. To avoid this, I think the max AW level should be increased to 40+ (I think @CrazyWizard would better know how much is needed than me), and I mean actual AW levels where both bonuses increase, not like the current levels 31-35. (I'm aware of the issue of reductions that shouldn't go below 80%. Perhaps fix it by making it ×1/(1+x) instead of -x%, although it would be pretty bad to suddenly change population and culture given by wonders. But it seems the only option.)
Disclaimer : this is a post from 2019, back when the formula was only used in the Spire and wasn't known. However, AFAIK the formula hadn't changed since then, except the small recent change about expansions, so it should still be valid.
This is very different and much more accurate from what we're told now, which is "every Ancient Wonder will give you more benefits than you would need to make up for the minimal increase in costs for building/upgrading one of these Ancient Wonders." I'd say the actual sentence is "Unless a wonder is not very useful for your playstyle, every Ancient Wonder will give you more benefits than you would need to make up for the minimal increase in costs for building/upgrading one of these Ancient Wonders."
And that would be true : I think a FA or Needles still benefits a fighter, and a MHalls or GA still benefits someone focused on catering. Leveling Thrones would probably still benefit someone playing ranking. And all AWs should be counted as the same penalty, so that some AWs don't suddenly become better than others.
However, I see several reasons why we may have built these "not so useful" AWs we should now delete :
1) Relics from the past. These are AWs that were a big help in early chapters but that become not very useful in later chapters (like ToS). Some of them I knew they would become useless later, and thus never leveled past level 1, like Maze I've now deleted. However, some of them I leveled and kept because I don't want the KP I placed in to be wasted if I were to want them again. A case in point being my ETC I leveled during chapter 15. I'm considering deleting it but I'd miss it should a new chpter require as much sentient goods as chapter 15. A good thing to avoid this issue would be the ability to teleport wonders, so that we can better adapt.
2) There were two things that tended to encourage placing several AWs : the lower KP cost for lower AW levels, and the seeds given per AW level. But now this penalty in Spire and Tournaments given for each AW level are a strong incentive to do the opposite - only level the most useful AWs. Such a change is quite hard (here speaking someone with ~200 AW levels on live and military AWs at level 6-7, still hesitating between fighting and catering. Glad I'm not 200 levels later.) A solution to avoid this would be counting only the most leveled AWs, to encourage people to put more different AWs and not focus on just one playstyle.
3) There's only a limited number of useful AW levels. There are pepole there (not me) with 500+ AW levels, which have already leveled all their useful AWs (~10-15 AWs to level 30) and now have no choice but leveling less useful (= that doesn't really fit their playstyle) AWs that will now hurt more than help. To avoid this, I think the max AW level should be increased to 40+ (I think @CrazyWizard would better know how much is needed than me), and I mean actual AW levels where both bonuses increase, not like the current levels 31-35. (I'm aware of the issue of reductions that shouldn't go below 80%. Perhaps fix it by making it ×1/(1+x) instead of -x%, although it would be pretty bad to suddenly change population and culture given by wonders. But it seems the only option.)
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Pauly7
Well-Known Member
I'm still not certain that even this always holds true. For example, levels 31-35 of wonders where their most useful power has been removed. Even for earlier levels of some powerful military wonders there could be stages where squad size / difficulty has reached a stage where getting extra troops faster would do nothing to make the fighting easier, considering we can only use 5 squads in each battle. Therefore there definitely will reach a tipping point where even an extra level of a Flying Academy will do more harm than good.